Severe methadone withdrawal and desperation

[valiumnocturne]

I have been researching the posts on this site for awhile now, until now only from a distance, but I have an issue that desperately needs addressed and I am out of options. Most of the people here seem to know a great deal about what they're talking about, particularly in regards to prescription medication. I am new to this place so please forgive me if I am posting this in the wrong spot, and if so, I'd be much obliged if you could point me in the right direction.

I am 26 years old and I have been taking very high doses of methadone for 11 years (between 100-200mg a day, orally as well as intranasally. I do not nor have I ever had a prescription for it, and I do not have the option of a taper, even a quick one. I am on my sixth day coldturkey as I have no other option, and I am in HELL. I don't have that strong of a mind to begin with so this is really taking me apart. Those pre-existing mental and physical issues were what drove me to the painkillers in the first place, and it seems they are coming back infinitely worse than they ever were before. I have gone to see a few different doctors in hopes of getting some advice on how to cope and manage with what I am dealing with but without insurance (I am currently on the waiting list for Medicaid) there is little that they will do for me aside from take it or leave it advice and a one way ticket back to Hell.

I was recently hospitalized with severe arrhythmia and tachycardia and the doctor I spoke with said that methadone can cause severe damage to the heart as it effects the way it functions, among various other things that it does to the brain and the body on top of that, and going through withdraws from such high doses from such a long period of time is very stressful on the heart, particularly if you have pre-existing heart issues, which I do. I have wrecked my heart, my brain, and my sinuses with this stuff and I am managing these horrific symptoms on my own. I literally have no one to help and nowhere to go.

 

[Cliffy78]

A lot of people here swear by immodium, I guess it binds to the opiate receptors and makes wd much much more bearable. Idk about methadone wd but I'm almost sure it'll work since ur six days in. There's a thread here on it, just search loperamide.. Hope this helps ya

 

[valiumnocturne]

Thank you. I have been taking immodium and I was on clonodine (given by the doctor I saw for my heart) to regulate bloodpressure and chills/sweats. I have also been taking extra strength excedrin for the headaches as I am very prone to migraines anyway and they seem to come more frequently now. And I am taking (VERY SPARINGLY!) Tramadol 50mg to help take the edge off. I don't want to trade one thing for another. I want to prove to myself that I can beat the demon on my own instead of letting it beat me, as I have before so many times. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Cliffy78]

Shit I wish I had some other ideas for u, it seems like you've got everything I can think of besides maybe a low dose benzo. The tram should help a little but with the lope I'm not sure that'll have much of an effect, I think the lope binds a bit harder than the tram but I'm not sure about that so... Fuck though if your six days in don't give up now!! Your almost there ! Your not too weak if u made it this far, a backslide would be awful. Just stay strong, I'm sure someone will have some ideas for u to try soon, good luck!!

 

[BigG]

High doses of methadone can cause heart problems in the form of extended QT interval (the line on an ECG between the start of the Q wave of the QRS complex and the end of the T wave) and torsades de pointes syndrome which is a form of polymorphic ventricular tachicardia . This is why regualr monitoring is essential when on long term high dose methadone. Loperamide (immodium) helps lots of people and your already on clondine which is good. Maybe if youcan get hold of a small amount of a benzo and possibly some lyrica or gabapentin that would help. Other than that there isn't much you can do. As you have discovered methadone withdrawals are absolute hell and unfortunately arnt over quickly. I sincerely wish you the best of luck and if things get worse (especially if you notice very erratic heart rate)...head to the ER without delay.
Take care.

 

[neversickanymore]

Hey nocturne. kicking methadone especially at doses like that is pretty close to hell. I jumped off a huge habit like that so I have a good idea of where you are at.

medications for acute opiate detox

The medications I would explore the use of for detox would be:
>Clonidine< DOSED EVER FOUR HOURS..

one of either
>NEURONTIN< >HERE<* >HERE<
OR >Lyrica<
OR >phenibut<

>A BENZO BUT JUST AT NIGHT<
>a nsaid<
>melatonin<
tylenol
Senokot S is a stool softener and laxative. If you do not want the laxative you can go for strait stool softenerDioctyl sodium sulfosuccinate.

(Opi Withdrawal) what is the best comfort meds for opiate w/d?

Your Personal Opiate Withdrawal Arsenal

Here are some ideas of which you are already utilizing some. There are also links to threads where you may find more ideas. The red asterix is the one I feal could benefit you the most from my list. Some people prefer lyrica but it costs much more.

Have you tried potentiating the lope at all?

It usually takes around 14 days for things to start to get better.. so your almost half way.. nice work.. you can do this, nothing back there but restarting the tunnel you have made the monumental effort to plow through.

 

[valiumnocturne]

Thank you, all of you, for the advice and kind words. I am learning (very slowly) to take my life one minute at a time. It's difficult--probably the hardest thing that I have ever had to do. Living that way for a little over a decade has taken quite a piece of my sanity but I'm slowly getting it back. I also noticed that if I try to sleep without any kind of benzo or sleep aid, weird things are happening. I'm seeing tracers and lights in my sleep, I have odd sleep-awareness where I'm not fully asleep nor am I fully awake. I toss and turn endlessly, hear and see things that aren't really there. I hear them, I see them, but at the same time my mind is automatically on the defensive, making sure that I know they aren't real. I am curious if this is normal or an adverse reaction. It is pure hell to say the very least but from a scientific and humane standpoint I am learning very valuable lessons about the power of the body and of the brain and what can be accomplished, particularly when you look for answers in the right places. I have found that dealing with withdrawal like this can be even more difficult if you're getting wrong information and no one should have to do it alone. I hope that I can get through this so that I can use what I have learned (and am still learning) to help others who are, have been, or are going to be in the same position. Thanks for all the support.

 

[kammyi]

Okay you are withdrawing from methadone after 11 years I was on 120 mg for two years I thought I was going to die!!!!!! For Imodium all those other things yeah they might help with the side side side effects, but not the pain and no pain pills or any of that is strong enough to override the methadone, i'm just being truthful I don't know what state you're in but here in North Carolina they have clinics you can go to for free have you ever considered the Suboxone treatment? they have those for free also, I have been through it all supplements yeah yeah yeah bull shit you're hurting you need to go maybe to the emergency room that is a long time to be on that and just to stop they will help you, and people please do not be telling this person that these natural supplements are going to help because they are not if you need anymore questions you can PM me I'm more than happy to help, methadone get in your bones very painful dangerous withdrawals please do something!!!!

 

[BigG]

Methadone does not "get in your bones"... That's a complete myth. It is a mu receptor opioid agonist with NMDA agonist properties that has an unusually long half life...no more and no less. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that it is stored in bone, cartilage or any such tissue.

 

[BlueSaffron]

Methadone does not "get in your bones". That's a myth.

 

[Cliffy78]

We've all been there, it's agony. I think he's thought of the hospital before, lol. I mean really? U joined just to tell the kid to ignore all these good recommendations? What do u suggest he do? Take opiates? He's getting off done', I'm sure he knows about subs. I just don't understand ur motivation for telling him nothing but sub will work? Sure subs great but I think he mentioned that he's out of money. If he's 6 days in with no backslide why fuck with sub and start all over? Seems nonsensical and it seems like poor advice IMHO. Op is taking lope so I'm sure he's heard of sub. I mean c'mon!! I'm the last person to act like a dick but wtf dude!!

 

[BigG]

^^^^^^ this

 

[neversickanymore]

Welcome to Bluelight Kammyi. I appreciate your heart felt post here and please realize I'm not questioning you, but rather the content of your post. Again good to have ya here at BL.

Okay you are withdrawing from methadone after 11 years I was on 120 mg for two years I thought I was going to die!!!!!!

Congratulations.. detoxed it all the way through and still doing well?

For Imodium all those other things yeah they might help with the side side side effects, but not the pain and no pain pills or any of that is strong enough to override the methadone,

Imodium actually works wonders for many people detoxing.. I would say it may be having a significant positive effect on the severity of the symptoms here considering he is six days in.

i'm just being truthful I don't know what state you're in but here in North Carolina they have clinics you can go to for free have you ever considered the Suboxone treatment? they have those for free also,

I know your heart is in the right place, but why suggest to a person who has pushed through six days of withdrawal to get back on a medication that would return him to start and become the new handcuffs they have to wear?

I have been through it all supplements yeah yeah yeah bull shit

I looked through the thread and did not see anybody mention a supplement anywhere, So I guess I have no idea what you are referring to here. Either you didn't read the thread or are not very knowledgeable about the medications and hormone mentioned.

you're hurting you need to go maybe to the emergency room that is a long time to be on that and just to stop they will help you,

This may be a good option to have the heart issues checked.. maybe research if there is a free clinic, before walking into the fortune sucking ER. If you find an appointment I would also explore the use of the Gabapentin as this works really well for many people. ER usually aren't the most receptive to drug people.. often get labeled as a drug seeker and can be treated as a lower human subset.

methadone get in your bones very painful dangerous withdrawals please do something!!!!

Please explain the bones thing as im unaware. Also if you feal that methadone withdrawals are dangerous to a healthy individual I would appreciate it if you could let me as to why.

Edit: looks like a few good people posted, what I was typing, while I was typing.

@kammyi.. Please dont take all the contrary opinions to harsh.. and please stick around BL, can learn a ton here.

 

[neversickanymore]

It is a mu receptor opioid agonist with NMDA agonist properties that has an unusually long half life...no more and no less.

It can be less

 

[BigG]

I think it's universally accepted that the bones thing is a falicy based on the drawn out and severe nature of the withdrawals and the fact that joint pain and bone aches are a common complaint. This could fool the sufferer into THINKING that the methadone has "got into their bones' but from a physiological point of view it hasn't. As for wds being dangerous, assuming the individual is otherwise in reasonable health then withdrawals arnt usually dangerous in terms of being life threatening in the way alcohol or benzo wds can be. Methadone wds are just very, very uncomfortable. The cardiac problems associated with methadone such as torsades de pointe extended QT syndrome and ventricular fibrilations are caused by being on the drug in the first place (in a very small number of predisposed individuals) not by coming off it per se.
I personally found neversickanymore's post to be knowledgeable and informative and certain my not "bulshit"... Some people should think and do more research before slamming other peoples posts which are in actual fact very helpful.

 

[neversickanymore]

I think it's universally accepted that the bones thing is a fallacy based on the drawn out and severe nature of the withdrawals and the fact that joint pain and bone aches are a common complaint. This could fool the sufferer into THINKING that the methadone has "got into their bones' but from a physiological point of view it hasn't.

Could also have additional roots in methadones clear tendency to affect vitamine D. Vitamin D deficiency can cause severe bone pain among other things.

FINDINGS:
: Low vitamin D status was found in 52% of the subjects (48 of 93), deficiency in 36%, and insufficiency in an additional 16%. Older age (OR = 3.47; 95% CI 1.31-9.22) and black or Hispanic race/ethnicity (OR 3.34; 95% CI 1.30-8.58) were significantly associated with higher risk of vitamin D deficiency.

Low vitamin d status of patients in methadone maintenance treatment.

As for wds being dangerous, assuming the individual is otherwise in reasonable health then withdrawals arnt usually dangerous in terms of being life threatening in the way alcohol or benzo wds can be. Methadone wds are just very, very uncomfortable.

Exactly right. I find that in certain situations I get better reactions when I ask people to explain or expand ideas I don't agree with instead of refuting them directly and putting the person on the defensive.

The cardiac problems associated with methadone such as torsades de pointe extended QT syndrome and ventricular fibrillations are caused by being on the drug in the first place (in a very small number of predisposed individuals) not by coming off it per se.

Good info to know I was not aware of this being a possible side effect.

I personally found neversickanymore's post to be knowledgeable and informative .

Thanks englandgz.. The may be less coment was because I think the methadone given at maintenance clinics varies a bit from the one in the pill forms as the maintenance clinics version, if I remeber right, is not a NMDA agonist.

 

[BigG]

Methadone has two isomers...a dextrorotary and Levorotary isomer the dexo isomer is a pure NMDA agonist with no opiate agonist properties and the levo isomer is a pure opiate agonist with no NMDA agonist properties. Methadone whether prescribed for pain or maintenance is almost exclusively a racemic mixture (an equal mixture of both forms). Although levemethadone does exist it isn't usually prescribed for maintenance in the us or Europe. This is all off the top of my head...if your genuinely interested you could look into levemethadone and its use as a maintenance drug (as oppose to standard racemic methadone). While you obviously know your stuff the amount of disinformation regarding methadone is huge.

Edit.... Polamidone and Heptadon are trade names for levomethadone

 

[neversickanymore]

Alright now its clear again.. and a possible reason for the ventricular arrhythmia is it "blocks potassium channels needed for rapid cardiac muscle repolarization." The literature I just read also claims that the dextro isomer is also a "reuptake inhibitor of serotonin and noradrenalin." Neuropathic Pain: Causes, Management and Understanding

We are swinging valiumnocturne thread all over the place though with a unintended tangent so we may have to finish this on another thread.. possibly the I just need to post In TDS?



Valiumnocturne.. this reminded me that you may consider adding a decent daily vitamine D gelcap to you regimen as well.

also I will put this down for when you slip out of the tunnel after withdrqawls

NSFW:

.. If you are male and get into medicaid you will also want to have your testosterone checked. Methadone use for that long at that high level will very likely have plummeted your testosterone levels. If this is the case treating this as quick as possible can have a very strong positive impact on the level of PAWS symptoms you could experience.

Heroin use was consistently associated with low plasma testosterone levels in narcotic addicts. Heroin addicts maintained on high dosage methadone (80-150 mg/day) also had depressed testosterone levels. Patients on low dosage methadone maintenance (10-60 mg/day) had testosterone levels which were not significant;y different from normal adult male controls. An inverse relationship between methadone dosage and plasma testosterone occurred during methadone detoxification. These findings indicate that heroin and methadone alter male androgen levels with possible derivative effects upon sexual and aggressive behaviors.

Plasma testosterone levels in heroin addiction and during methadone maintenance.

Check in when you can nocturne.

 

[BigG]

Your right we have gone off on a tangent lol!
I hope the OP is still reading as I would genuinely like to find out how he is doing

 

[valiumnocturne]

I'm still here. Just took me awhile to sift through all the new posts lol. I am (for whatever reason) feeling a little better today, but I also know that every day is different. I have tried suboxone before but I seem to have a reaction to either the bupe or the naloxone that causes severe headaches and nausea. I can take promethezine to counteract the nausea but it always leaves me feeling even more rundown than normal. I got my appetite back today (a little) and I have eaten 2 whole meals and I have been pushing (forcing) down clear liquid and cranberry juice. I've also been researching ways to rebuild the vitamin D and potassium levels but for the time being I have stuck to eating bananas and drinking milk. I want to try to get back to "normal" without the use of substances wherever and whenever possible. I am attempting to rebuild myself and retain my sanity and it seems to be working out. I'm not giving up. Thanks for all the support, feel free to keep posting, I have no objection to the reception of knowledge.