• H&R Moderators: streaM Freak

Opiate/Opiod PAWS (help)

Callus In Brains

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
9
Hi everyone

for the past 2+ years I was addicted to taking painkillers, mostly oxy, hydro and morphine. Ive been clean now for 5 weeks not using any drug other than weed. Im doing a lot better then I was during the first week but I still feel really bad, pretty much like day 1 for the past 2 weeks. Still getting headaches, muscle aches, stomach cramps, nausea, RLS, extreme lethargy, anxiety, depression, sensitive eyes, agitation.

I excepted some of them but not all of them and at the levels theyre still at currently. How much longer should I be experiencing these symptoms? I havent had 1 good day yet where I feel like I really turned the corner. Just Malaise. So if anybody has been through this when did you start feeling better? How long did you symptoms last? Im getting my blood drawn Monday to check everything. but just looking for a little bit of insight on the nature of PAWS.

Thanks
 
Hey Callus.. and welcome to Bluelight. sorry you are struggling with the paws. The length of time people have paws symptoms is pretty varied. But I think that the vast number of people experience significant if not complete relief right around six months. Many times people just feal a sliver better each and every day. This sliver is sometimes almost unrecognizable from day to day but when we think back to how we felt a week or two before we can see a positive difference. There are also things we can do to speed back up the neuroregulation we are trying to get. I would refrain from any drug use at all until the regulation is achieved. Smoking so grass or whatever can provide some positive relief but I think it may come at the price of prolonging the PAWS. if we want complex interconnected system to stabilize we need to stop manipulating it. We can also promote its stabilization with exercise, natural sleep, and altering our thinking. Its important to realize that just as the chemicals in the brain influence thought, that thought also influences the chemicals. Meditation is another practice that likely promotes stabilization. nutrition likely can make a big difference especially staying away from processed sugar as much as possible. Some people find it beneficial to also stay away from cafine, I on the other hand indulge heave in cafine and found it helpful with the fatigue, mood, and cravings.

PAWS LINKS
Why We Don’t Get Better Immediately: Post-acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS)
Post Acute Withdrawal (PAW) Excerpted From “Staying Sober” By: Terence T. Gorski
Post-acute-withdrawal syndrome Wiki
Exercise and Mood

Chemicals and supplements to recover from opiate addiction
Managing depressive thinking

it is a powerful thing to keep our thoughts possitive and here are some threads many of us use to help us do this.
Good things about being off drugs/getting sober
Share something POSITIVE from your day!
Today I Am Thankful For... Ver. 3: Earth, Wind and Fire!
Here is the mindfulness thread.

Its powerful to remind ourselfs that it will get better.. in a few months you will feal much better than you do now.. and in a few more months after that you will feal great. Keep at it your doing great, and congratulations of getting and staying clean from the wretched opiates=D What you have done already is really hard, amazing work, you should be damn proud of yourself!!!:)
 
Hello, I thought I could share my friend's experience. At the end, the OP may find his success of interest perhaps. First, my friend last used oxy, 750 mg snorted due to dependence (25 of the 30mg Roxi) March 25th. He then made arrangements to kick a seven year habit, after fear that even 150 mg at once was no longer producing a desired effect. He was spending $400 a day on oxy, which was a fortune of course. Most importantly, that week his work approached him stating they were noticing something was wrong. In fact, he was drug tested, and was very fortunate that oxy is not detected by standard opioid assays in the urine (it is an add- on test at Quest). But he felt the heat and the threat to his career (he is a physician) and made arrangements to immediately stop oxy. He secured Kratom and 200 immodium 2 mg tablets. He used these with success on day 1, with hot showers, and baths. Unfortunately, day 2-3 of withdrawal came, and things become unmanageable despite these temporizing measures. Kratom's opioid activity and imodium's opioid activity in the gut helped for awhile; until my friend became toxic on the Kratom. My friend had vertigo, facial numbness, eye twitching, speech impairment (from Kratom/mirtagynine levels getting way too high from 30-50g of Bali in a day) AND still had the severe vomiting symptoms of a 750 mg oxy habit leaving his system. He had no choice but to do a short inpatient stay at a detox. He received about 8 doses of Klonopin over 3 days, and 3 clonidine. By day 5-6 "no oxy" he was discharged home, still feeling bad but desperate for the comfort of his bed. At this point, he was becoming very depressed with PAWS. And the anxiety was like holding live current in both hands, radiating through the chest and head. His mind was so clouded he felt as though his eyes were looking through a different head. He had trouble raising his fork to eat. Two weeks before, he was a high profile physician, and now he felt as though he must have had a stroke. He understood distinctly over the next 10 days why an addict relapses during PAWS. It's not to get high, it's to get better, faster, now. You want to think again, move again, play with your kids again, work again, and have emotional capacity and stress reserve again. But using wasn't an option for my friend. This is what he noticed, and he read everything he could get his hands on:

Every time he took something to feel better, it made him feel worse after a short time, and it would take him a day to recover from the new drug. This included: Benadryl (made RLS WORSE) Lunesta (made him severely depressed and sluggish for 24 hours) l-tyrosine (made him extremely jittery for 12 hours) red bull (anxious and current like tension). Every time he stuck to water , strenuous 20 minute exercise, and healthy food, he felt like he made progress. After 21 days, he still was tearful, no energy, a little cloudy headed, depressed, and feeling a lot of stress/anxiety- much worse in the morning and much better after sunset. Stimulation of any kind was still not bearable- he would retreat to bed or bath. At this point he made a decision which changed the course of his recovery, the course of his PAWS. He scheduled himself back to work, 7 straight days, 12 hour shifts. No days off. He was scared shitless that he wouldn't be able to function. However, the hardest part was getting him in the door. Day 1 was exhausting, a real uphill fight. But he slept well that night, much like an athletic tired. Day 2 was another exhausting day at work, preceded by tears. But he noted his mind was no longer cloudy while working. His appetite was better too, and he was even smiling and joking at times. By day 6 of work, he was FEELING GREAT. No more anxiety. Happiness was even possible at times. His mind was 100% back. Fatigue was really improved; now he was just appropriately tired. And he was working more efficiently without oxy than he did with, which really surprised him. He thought the oxy made him superman. He was wrong. The oxy had enslave him, stole 1/3 of his family's income, and threatened to destroy his life as he knew it. At day 27, he realized two things about acute withdrawal and about PAWS:

1. You must get out of the mentality that in order to feel better you must take something. Only thing you need is water and good food. Your body is trying to heal/ it does not need more than a regular diet and ample water to do this. Taking drugs of any type delayed my friends recovery. Note that he had no pain problems, and did not smoke or drink. But his oxy use was phenomenal- 750 mg insufflated a day. So we are talking a big insult to his mind. THROW AWAY ALL LIQUOR. TAKE EVERY MEDICINE TO YOUR IN- laws BUT MOTRIN. Take baths , exercise, and wait. Time is the only answer. And it is the hardest thing for an addict to accept. But YOU WILL GET BETTER IT IS GUARANTEED. When, is up to your body, age, use. But also up to your mindset, attitude, and willingness to:
2. GET BACK TO WORK AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. The emotional part of your brain is a mess during PAWS. The logical and intellectual part of your brain is OK PRETTY QUICK AFTER ACUTE WITHDRAWAL FROM OPIOIDS. So? Who do you love more? Co- workers, or wife and kids? Your house, or your job? I am not preaching avoidance here , but let's call a spade a spade . During PAWS your emotional brain and reward center is totally fucked up. It takes 3-6 months. BUT YOU CAN TRICK YOUR BRAIN TO GET BETTER FASTER. How? USE THE PART THATS WORKING. Logical and intelligent brain. You use that at work. Not at home, where you stare at loved ones and the ceiling and grow anxiety for not being able to love or interact with them up to yours or their expectations. This causes stress. Depression. You're spinning your wheels. GO TO WORK. Force it at first. Then about 3-4 days in, expect to feel significant improvements. If my physician friend can walk away from 90% of PAWS in this way, he believes many others can too.

Good luck to you. Never go back!!
 
Hi Fellow Sufferer! I've been lurking around here reading for a long while ~ but I sooooooo feel your pain that I popped in to give you kudos for weathering the most wicked storm. I was 48 before I had ever used an opiate anything. My Mentor (or something like that) started me on oxy/meth combo/IV and I have never returned to being me. I hate pills, so eventually, to be feeding my twisted ego to hang with the Big Dog, I went the Daddy Opiate. 9 months. I did not like to feel high, but I didn't like being sick. So I was a maintenance user daily, all day/everyday. And then some nice police officers took Big Dog on a vacation from freedom and there I was ~ cold-turkey. I have never wanted to die more than I did for about a month. For me, it wasn't so much physical, it was mental/emotional. I would think about using non-stop. A month in, I gave in, relapsed and oddly ~ it made me sick doing that to myself. So, again, cold-turkey. One Friday morning I literally woke up so depressed/Jonesing/lost that I went to the ER and confessed my sins. Oddly, it helped. The suicidal thoughts didn't subside for a few weeks, but I didn't plan it any longer. And as weird as this is, I didn't miss the dope, I missed the needle. I know....who does that??? Self-loathing maybe, like a cutter..? At any rate, I'm off the opiates now 5 weeks and I still feel like crap most of the time. Guilt maybe. Disappointment that he got popped and my ride no longer included being unfeeling anymore? Loads of things but the truth is pretty simple: I am the only one who can bring me back. I'm almost afraid to think happy thoughts. I still get crawlies and I don't sleep or eat so that is a big part of my own problem. Best advice I can offer? Be thankful it's today and not yesterday. That's how I do it. And it is true, time and letting yourself feel as you do without self-punishing.....it gets a little better each day. I actually get out of my jammies every day. Jesus ~ that's a terrible testament but it's true. And today I actually wanted to live. So for everyone it is different, but you certainly aren't alone. Be kind to yourself and you'll get it!
 
geez i wished i felt better after 21 days!when i quit methadone it took a minimum of 2-3 months and i started noticing tiny differences in energy and mood...even still i felt lethargic and zombified so i took caffeine to boost me up..not a good idea imo, as the crash made me feel that much worse..i have always exercised so thats important but even then i felt shitty for a very long time..Paws is a nasty fucker, much worse than i ever thought it would be..luckily i dont have cravings but i feel the general malaise too much of the time..
 
Thanks guys. I really appreciated those posts. The testaments and info was enjoyed and helpful!

Tomorrow will be 6 weeks, so another week. But this past week has been arguably the most difficult for me, I got cold cocked. It feels eerily similar to the first week. Im in a panicked state, bad nausea/stomach cramps, insomnia, just super fucking restless and uncomfortable all over again. I never imagined at 40+ days id still feel as bad. Im not really craving the drugs either, its just a yearning to feel even decent. Id give anything for 1 day to relax and clear my head.

I am working out 4x a week, and am taking nothing besides Valerian Root, Asprin, Pepto and Weed. I know I need to stop smoking weed, even for just a little bit. But im scared to in a sense, I dont think I can deal with feeling any more anxiety and lack of sleep. I know Im not going to be withdrawing from mary jane like other substances but I just feel in the fragile state im In currently in it'd exacerbate everything. I had a herniated disc a few years back to it helps with the back pain i get after running/lifting weights as well.

Anyways I think Ill try stopping smoking weed, to at least see how I feel after a week or so. Id give anything a try to feel better and not be so reclusive still. I think Im more reclusive right now then in my dark days which is frustrating. Idk if I dont want people to see me vulnerable or weak, nevertheless a part of my process of getting through this I guess. I tell myself Its better then being reclusive AND doing drugs, then I often question that statement at times, Is it really? Then again. I dont know anything.
 
I'm 18 months clean and can tell you it does get better. The unfortunate reality is that (in my experience) a lot of "getting better" is a waiting game. Simply waiting for your brain chemistry to recalibrate. Here are some things that I found helped me:
- drink a lot of water, stay hydrated and try to drink 2+ litres of water a day
- lots of fruits and veggies, have 5+ servings a day
- cut out the junk food and fast food, eat good, cook home cooked meals
- take vitamins and supplements (I personally take vitamin c, d, and zinc everyday)
- start working out, running, lifting weights, yoga whatever you're into just stay physically active
- find some people to hang out with the power of laughing and having a good time is something that is under valued, to this day some of the best times I've had in sobriety was just breaking balls and talking shit with my friends laughing till my abs hurt

All of the above in my opinion helped me out substantially in my recovery
 
Hey mate,
for me it was right around day 14 when I began to see the light. This was after a 6+ year morphine/dope habit. I can honestly say there was marked improvement day 11 but day 14 was my breakthrough. I did have help. My PCP gave me Clonidine/Gabapentin to alleviate the symptoms. It makes you feel like walking up hill through mud with lead boots on, but it does alleviate the symptoms. If these were prescribed, as mine were (minus the dope), you should see your Dr for some comfort meds. They got you hooked, and they can help get you unhooked.

That said, hang in there. You came this far and you can overcome it. One day at a time.
 
I'm 18 months clean and can tell you it does get better. The unfortunate reality is that (in my experience) a lot of "getting better" is a waiting game. Simply waiting for your brain chemistry to recalibrate. Here are some things that I found helped me:
- drink a lot of water, stay hydrated and try to drink 2+ litres of water a day
- lots of fruits and veggies, have 5+ servings a day
- cut out the junk food and fast food, eat good, cook home cooked meals
- take vitamins and supplements (I personally take vitamin c, d, and zinc everyday)
- start working out, running, lifting weights, yoga whatever you're into just stay physically active
- find some people to hang out with the power of laughing and having a good time is something that is under valued, to this day some of the best times I've had in sobriety was just breaking balls and talking shit with my friends laughing till my abs hurt

All of the above in my opinion helped me out substantially in my recovery

Doesn't chocolate help with endorphin levels? I read somewhere that this helps a lot... I agree with fruits and water but i found chocolate helped too?
 
Top