Bupe question about going from a bad heroin habit to suboxone

[khaos0803]

i am very familiar with suboxone, every time I got clean they were how i did it, i always took 4mg the first day then 8 the second and due to their long shelf life, i didnt need anymore and 10 days later or so i was fine, so here i am now with the worst habit i ever had and i've made maybe 5 attempts to go to subs with this same method, however, before, i could use heroin last at night, wake up the next day and take the sub maybe 10-12 hours later and be fine, now obviously with a worse habit and been using for 18 straight months, i cannot take a sub sooner than 30 hours or longer. at that point withdrawal is half over and i can't make it past 12 hours, i just cannot. i know all about the cows worksheet, again i am familiar with the drug, however long story short, i've gone into precipitated withdrawal too many times and am too traumatized to try again. no matter what, it's like impossible for me to wait out the 30+ hours so please dont suggest what i already know is the obvious option, my question is this, if i take a sub a couple hours after using h and intentionally go into precipitated withdrawal and then use heroin on top of that to ease the PW, go to sleep, wake up the next day, can I take my next sub dose and not go into PW? will the sub i took the day before kick off absolutely all of the heroin from my receptors and block the heroin i do once i go into precitpated even though i do feel the h after the sub?some say doing h after sub will have no affect, this is false, it always does have affect for me and eases PW. i know this is like obviously me trying to find the easiest way to do this and that switching back and forth is risky, i know all of this, regardless of other facts, i need this answered please. and not to be rude but i ask that only people with actual experience give feedback. thank you and i appreciate it ahead of time, i am desperate to get clean again and i'm starting to hate myself cause i cant just sit thru 30 horrible hours of suffering for a lifetime of recovery.
some facts are that i have been using h for 18 months straight, my habit is about about a bundle and a half a day and i do 3 $10 bags in each shot. i inject. idk if that matters. also if you have done this and know how much miligrams of sub i should take when i want to go into precipated, and the next morning, etc ,let me know. thanks again

 

[The Doc.]

You should in theory be fine if you already have a sub in your system then take it again since whateevr heroin you do is going to be pretty much blocked depending on how much you took of Sub its like if you were taking sub for a few months daily then did heroin one day about 8 hours or so after taking sub you may feel a slight high that diminishes quickly but you wouldnt have to worry about going into precipitated withdrawal the next dose you take. May I ask if your terrified of the precipitated withdrawals then why purposely do it to yourself?

And 30 hours?! How do you take your suboxone do you also inject that? Does your heroin really last you 24+ hours ? If so that's a very slow metabolism heroin has a very short half life. I've heard of it a few times though where people don't get physically sick until 30 hours and still go into withdrawal at 24+ hours from taking sub but most of the time if taken sublingually in a low dose people don't have to wait that long unless they have a slow metabolism of course. When sub is injected the chances of going into precipitated withdrawals go way up same with snorting it which usually means the person has to wait longer to induct onto suboxone than they would've if they took it sublingually the theory is the naloxone makes the precipitated withdrawals even worse than it would have been with just buprenorphine withdrawals since not as much naloxone gets absorbed via the sublingual route along with the fact the bupe creeps up on you instead of hitting you all at once like happens with IV bupe. That seems weird to me 30 hours mabye cause I get away with it at only 4 hours every time with no trouble but I hear of this happening a lot more to people that inject suboxone.

 

[khaos0803]

so that i dont have to wait the 30 plus hours to take the sub, but i will have heroin ready so when i go into PW i can instantly ease the suffering, that's the whole point of the question, i want to know if after i go into PW and i do more heroin and then the next morning take a sub, will the heroin i did to ease the PW make me go into PW in the morning when i take my next sub. i'm pretty sure this method will work but i want opions and preferably experience on it

 

[khaos0803]

every time i have gone into PW before, i did more dope to take it away and it works. in my experience subs stay in my system at least 20 hours or so, so i have been wondering if going into PW intentionally then doing dope to ease the suffering, if the sub will stay in my system regardless of the heroin and keep me from getting sick the next day til i can at least take another sub. hope i'm not being confusing. thats why i said i cannot sit out the normal 30 hours of my last heroin use to safely take a sub, i just can't make it that long sick, so this option is better in my eyes

 

[khaos0803]

and yeah if you're on subs for a while and do heroin once that is obvious that you wont go into PW with the sub you take after the heroin, but i have not been on suboxone, i've been doing only heroin straight for 18 months or longer so i'm wondering if taking one 8mg suboxone is enough to take ALL of the heroin out of my receptors, put me into PW, then I'll do heroin as soon as the PW peaks to ease it, then the next morning take another suboxone. then no more heroin at all. i'm worried that because i've been doing so much heroin for so long that the sub i take to intentionally go into PW won't be enough to kick off all the heroin off my receptors or that once i do more heroin, then that'll cause PW the next day when i take the 2nd suboxone

 

[The Doc.]

8mgs should be enough to send you into withdrawals and remove all the heroin. Yea I know heroin will ease it but your still getting that shock of going into the precipitated withdrawal.
Also do you inject your suboxone?
Sorry I edited my post up above asking if you injected sub.

 

[zzITCHY420zz]

bad idea

don't put urself into precipitated w/d. its just adding more drugs and in the end its going to be even more painful. what you're going to have to do is somehow make it until the half-life of the heroin is low enough to where bupe isn't going to make you go into w/ds

 

[peacelovehope]

Without wondering why it takes 30 hrs, are you taking anything else, like methadone, which has a really long half life? I would take some pain pills or something BEFORE the subs, so you avoid the dreaded PW's , and the dreaded 30hr wait, which is a really long time. Also to keep in mind bupe takes 3 days to peak in your bloodstream, so before the 3 days, less is more, the opposite of other drugs. Which is why if injected or snorted it will almost certainly bring on PW'S. I did would avoid them by switching drugs, since it might be too difficult to cut back on the H, to a pill with a short half life that will keep you out of pain & then switch to 2 mg of bupe, if you feel you need more, which you probably will considering the dose of H you are on, take another 2. I only mention that to be on the safe side, because not sure what is causing PW'S before 30 hrs. Best of luck to you!

 

[The Doc.]

every time i have gone into PW before, i did more dope to take it away and it works. in my experience subs stay in my system at least 20 hours or so, so i have been wondering if going into PW intentionally then doing dope to ease the suffering, if the sub will stay in my system regardless of the heroin and keep me from getting sick the next day til i can at least take another sub. hope i'm not being confusing. thats why i said i cannot sit out the normal 30 hours of my last heroin use to safely take a sub, i just can't make it that long sick, so this option is better in my eyes

I dont get it either guy's haha he wants to go into precipitated withdrawals purposely to avoid accidently going into precipitated withdrawl wtf??
you can't make it that long sick? I don't get it ymthe whole point is to wait until your sick but your not sick if your still waiting the whole point is to wait until your sick and at the point your body is doing weird things not just your mind then you take the sub.

 

[khaos0803]

Okay clearly you're not getting it, going into PW for 2 minutes to avoid going into PW for hours makes plenty of sense, and no I'm not on anything else, again, just heroin, and no injecting bupe is retarded I take it regular, and I have already done this I just ended up doing heroin the next morning instead of another sub because I was still worried about going into PW, please read what I said before answering, thanks, and I'm a girl

 

[khaos0803]

I said I have experience with suboxone and I know about waiting and the cows worksheet, I know I personally have to wait 30+ hours to safely take a suboxone, after 30 hours of being dopesick the detox is pretty much half over and too agonizing for me, again. Also, again I've already stated this, I've tried at least 5 times, and again, I am familiar with suboxone, how they work, and how they work for me, I just want someone who's actually done this to tell me if I purposely take a sub to go into PW then immediately do heroin to ease the PW (this seems to be what no one gets, I'm doing heroin after the sub to take away the PW I've done this several times it does work), my question is if I wake up the next day and immediately take a suboxone, will the suboxone I took the day before to purposely go into PW be enough to block out the one dose of heroin I did to ease the PW from the first suboxone?
I don't need any other info, again please if you've done this and understand suboxone, its just a yes or no, if that first suboxone isn't enough to kick all the heroin from my receptors and block the next dose of heroin that I do to ease the PW, so when I take the sub in the morning I don't go into PW for real, as in I won't have any heroin to take it away, i don't know how much clearer to say it

 

[khaos0803]

It's not going to be more painful, I've done it before, this isn't just some random assigning idea out if nowhere this is a last resort after a year of trying to get clean. Unless I'm in jail or being held down I just can't force myself to just stop using heroin and go cold turkey for 30+ hours before I can take a sub, and whoever said something about heroins half life, if there's any heroin attached to your receptors at all and you take suboxone, you're going into PW

 

[khaos0803]

I never said I was wondering why it takes 30 hours can you people actually read my entire thing and if you're not actually answering my question from personal experience please leave it alone, I'm not trying to be rude, it's just that I'm not typing out my whole life story to explain why I'm here and why I want to do this rather than other options, just trust me when I say this is pretty much at least worth trying if it fails all I have to do is use more heroin, I know because I've done it all except for what I'm asking

 

[khaos0803]

I get what you're saying about trying to take something rather than heroin, I've tried every other option I promise, I've taken the tiniest bits of sub after 32 hours, I only do it normally, under my tongue, I just have too much heroin in my system, like I said before my habit was ever this bad, I didn't have to wait that long, I could wake up sick and take a sub right away, the transition was easy as pie, but the past 5-6 times I tried getting clean, some at home, some at detox centers, etc, I go into PW, I don't exactly know the amount of hours I do have to wait cause I always go into PW, I know it's more than 30 from personal experience, I know you have to wait til you're in moderate withdrawal before taking it, scoring a certain number on the COWS worksheet, for me it's like 35 hours, just how it is man

 

[bluephoenix]

First, try to taper your heroin dose a bit. After you get it down, go without until you start to feel a little sick. Uneasy, a little runny nose but not full out WDs. After that take 2mg of suboxone. Let that sit in your system for a bit then every two hours or so take 2 more mgs. The first day of subs it is not a good idea to take a lot at once. You will never feel 100% on day one but if you ease into it you won't get PW. Try to take some loperamide as well there is a very good thread on it. It was a huge help for me I took Loperamide before I started feeling sick, it takes a few hours to fully kick in. Then I took just a little sub when I started to get sick. Rode out feeling ok but not great for one day. By day two after a little more sub and redosing my loperamide I felt great. Tapered that down over a couple weeks and was 100% clean by the end of the month with very little discomfort.

 

[khaos0803]

And please no one think I'm being rude I am not at all, I appreciate all feedback but to get my answer I would just appreciate hearing from people with experience, no offense but it doesn't sound like you guys are understanding me or really know much about this. I'm almost certain in can be done, just from what I've tried in the past and what I've researched, but again I'd like to try hearing from someone who's done it, thank you

 

[The Doc.]

Holy crap why all the posts you can use the edit function instead of doing one post after another. And I've already told you what will happen yes the dope will ease the precipitated part and yes you should in theory be fine to take that sub after doing heroin since the heroin will be mostly blocked. There's no way to know for sure because we all metabolise thing differently I mean fuck I've done suboxone 1 hour after shooting a half gram of heroin and I still had no problems no precipitated withdrawal whereas my buddy waited 20 hours and he still went into precipitated withdrawals I mean if our body's metabolise substances at such different paces how will we know what works for you to send you into precipitated withdrawal and still leaves some room open for heroin.

But we don't have experience doing this because its just not a very good idea at all and I'm not about ready to be a Guinea pig and test it for you I induct on suboxone the right way. I would never throw myself into precipitated withdrawals purposely. But if that's how you want to do it then fine no skin of my back knock yourself out for all I care you can go to the arctic wearing moccasins and put yourself into precipitated withdrawal over and over its your life . Your a cocky little one arnt you think you know everything well guess you don't need us then if I don't know anything I've only been on suboxone a few years and did heroin for a decade. Your the one who has no clue what their talking about now quit posting all over here trying to raise your post count talking trash acting like you know what your talking about cause clearly you don't

No one is answering you cause your idea is STUPID and your a cocky little shit.

 

[Emme80]

^ agreed. I'm not "experienced" with suboxone- but know it's workings. I did my research & decided to stay with my beast. But watching these posts pop up, and I know you may be panicking, but it certainly is coming off as rude. Beyond that though... your goal is to purposely throw yourself into PW...do H (as you afraid of PW...but who isn't) to mitigate those PW & then take another sub next morning. Thus, this is where your real inquiry starts. Your wanting someone to substantiate your second day theory - given your mass ammts. of H in you, will the sub. still be enough, etc. I think the problem is, as Trainspotter has said, and likely why nobody's piping up to confirm your theory & say " I did it & it is sure-fire"... may be due to it's so very contradictory action. The steps your wanting to take don't make sense (I understand the "process" & goal in theory that you know to be true, from experience, as you've made them very clear here). Indeed, I think the others ARE understanding you; but rationally, no. One of the roles of sub is to rip off H/Meth/any Opioid off the receptors. But it's apparent that you've "done this so many times". You've a "system" that works out in your mind. While not advisable, I don't know if anybody would say hella yea. But then, maybe nobody's taken it on as you have. While not advisable, knock your self out, "give it a shot "...maybe you'll stumble upon a whole new world of induction that has yet laid undiscovered.
All the best to you, most sincerely! Just remember- the price...you may have to ante up -as you said- "for a lifetime of recovery". Worth it. I hope you find your answers...truly.

 

[Carl Landrover]

I would give an answer, but I don't understand how you are going in precipitated withdrawals if you're in such bad withdrawal that you can't wait any longer.

I would be really sick by 18 hours where I either needed to cop or to take sub. The first dose of sub would usually make me feel kind of weird, but wasn't precipitated WD. How much sub are you starting with when you have gone into precipitated WD?

The day before you're going to take sub, don't use as much heroin as you would normally use. You're going to be stopping anyway. I would wait until I was physically WDing and then start with a low dose, like 1-2mg. It won't hold you, but you'll have an idea if it's too early or not. Once that's dissolved, just hang on a bit longer to see how you feel, and then take more of a regular dose if it seems alright.

 

[The Doc.]

Yea emme iwho knows mabye he found the new way to induct people but I don't see it catching on. Don't think well see many detox facilities intentionally putting people into precipitated withdrawal then giving then heroin to ease those then giving them a sub the next day I mean its not a good idea why no wait 30-40 hours if the heroin really lasts you that long then you should be fine that time then once the sickness starts getting really physically bad then take your sub.