Stiff neck from MDMA?

[tokingsquid2420]

i've done MDMA 3 times and 2/3 of them i've had a stiff neck for about 2 days. The only way I have done MDMA is by snorting about half a pill - to a little over a pill. The first time I thought my neck was stiff just because I fell asleep in an awkward position, but then the 2nd time I did it I was at a rave and I was head banging quiet a bit so I was thinking maybe thats why it is stiff again, but i know of a couple of friends who get sore necks from doing mdma. I was also reading that your neck gets stiff because the spinal fluid in your neck drains out the next day but then later I found another website to say it was only a myth. If someone could give me some clarification on this subject it would help me a lot for MDMA use in the future

 

[goodvibes]

MDMA isn't causing your neck pain. It is what you are doing when on it haha.

You say that you were "head banging quite a bit"--well thats your answer. It's just sore!

Mine has hurt after a long night of raving to dubstep for a couple days as well

 

[Deleted member 290563]

I was also reading that your neck gets stiff because the spinal fluid in your neck drains out the next day but then later I found another website to say it was only a myth. If someone could give me some clarification on this subject it would help me a lot for MDMA use in the future

lol where did you read that, the christian republican's coalition against drug use website?

 

[zebrafish]

i've done MDMA 3 times and 2/3 of them i've had a stiff neck for about 2 days. The only way I have done MDMA is by snorting about half a pill - to a little over a pill. The first time I thought my neck was stiff just because I fell asleep in an awkward position, but then the 2nd time I did it I was at a rave and I was head banging quiet a bit so I was thinking maybe thats why it is stiff again, but i know of a couple of friends who get sore necks from doing mdma. I was also reading that your neck gets stiff because the spinal fluid in your neck drains out the next day but then later I found another website to say it was only a myth. If someone could give me some clarification on this subject it would help me a lot for MDMA use in the future

I'm not sure how the spinal fluid myth started long ago, but its untrue. The only changes in the CSF after MDMA ingestion is a decreased concentration of monoamine neurotransmitters and their metabolities, such as 5-HT and 5-HIAA, which then increase as the cerebral content of these monoamines return back to baseline.

The stiff neck may be from your head banging, causing stretch injury and spasm to the paraspinal muscles or spinal ligaments in your neck. On the other hand, MDMA can cause muscle spasms. The most common are the muscle of mastication innervated by the trigeminal nerve, causing bruxism (such as the masseter, temporalis, and medial/lateral pterygoid muscles). The trapezius and sternoidcleidomastoid muscles in your neck are innervated by the spinal accessory nerve from your brainstem, which may have some serotonin outflow. However, spasms of these muscles after MDMA is not the classical clinical manisfestation of MDMA, but I guess it is possible.

In serotonin syndrome, you get the triad of diffuse muscle rigidity and myoclonus, autonomic instability including hyperthermia, and altered mental status. However, your case sounds nothing like that.

You may have to reduce your dose if the neck stiffness is too bothersome. You could try taking supplements like magnesium which may help. I'm not sure how anti-spasmodic agents such as carisoprodol, methocarbamol, or cyclobenzaprine would interact with MDMA, so I can't recommend that yet.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

^ good response.

The myth of CSF depletion originated from the early testing done on MDMA patients in hospitals.
In the 80s and early 90s doctors would do a spinal tap to test the metabolites of 5HT in an attempt to determine why the patients were exhibiting such terrible symptoms. It was a research methodology that was discontinued because it was determined that TPH and 5HT concentration were not predictive of symptoms. Some people had very low levels and no symptoms...

Young drug users, in all their brilliance, somehow associated the withdrawal of spinal fluid for testing as a 'loss' that might eventually lead to trouble.
In fact the CSF is replaced by the body. Then this misinformation was spread as "Tabs cause your spinal fluid to be used up."

Just an ignorant early miscommunication amongst drug users.

Stiff neck is probably common, as is sore jaw and back muscles.
MDMA is a very strong drug experience and must be appreciated for this.
However, it is also possible that another cause is at play.

The vagus nerve that travels from the gut, where serotonin lives to contract intestinal muscle cells, travels through the neck to the brain.
If your serotonin system is not handling the drain very well, perhaps your gut is causing distress that ends up tightening the muscles at the base of the brain.

Tight neck is a common complaint of those recovering from MDMA toxicity.
That includes me, and it continues to be an issue after many years.
If you find that your neck tightness is a little too strong to be considered appropriate, then you might think of this as a warning sign.
The body is connected in strange ways and you might be getting a signal that your brain can't withstand such a powerful drug.

 

[zebrafish]

^ good response.

The myth of CSF depletion originated from the early testing done on MDMA patients in hospitals.
In the 80s and early 90s doctors would do a spinal tap to test the metabolites of 5HT in an attempt to determine why the patients were exhibiting such terrible symptoms. It was a research methodology that was discontinued because it was determined that TPH and 5HT concentration were not predictive of symptoms. Some people had very low levels and no symptoms...

Young drug users, in all their brilliance, somehow associated the withdrawal of spinal fluid for testing as a 'loss' that might eventually lead to trouble.
In fact the CSF is replaced by the body. Then this misinformation was spread as "Tabs cause your spinal fluid to be used up."

Just an ignorant early miscommunication amongst drug users.

Stiff neck is probably common, as is sore jaw and back muscles.
MDMA is a very strong drug experience and must be appreciated for this.
However, it is also possible that another cause is at play.

The vagus nerve that travels from the gut, where serotonin lives to contract intestinal muscle cells, travels through the neck to the brain.
If your serotonin system is not handling the drain very well, perhaps your gut is causing distress that ends up tightening the muscles at the base of the brain.

Tight neck is a common complaint of those recovering from MDMA toxicity.
That includes me, and it continues to be an issue after many years.
If you find that your neck tightness is a little too strong to be considered appropriate, then you might think of this as a warning sign.
The body is connected in strange ways and you might be getting a signal that your brain can't withstand such a powerful drug.

Interesting theory about the vagus nerve, but not sure I understand how the vagus may cause neck stiffness/muscle spasm. Do you any have evidence for this? The vagus nerve does indeed arise from the medulla of the brain stem, exits the jugular foramen of the skull, and descends down through the neck in the carotid sheath, nested between the common carotid artery and jugular vein. Its fibers mainly consist presynaptic parasympathetic fibers that provide parasympathetic innervation to the heart, lungs/bronchi/trachea, stomach, liver/gallbladder, and upper intestines to the ileocecal junction. It has has a lot implications in smooth muscle control in the visceral organs, which may be partly mediated by the serotonin, but I don't think it has a lot of influence on striated skeletal muscle.

I think the stiffness the OP may be MDMA induced spasms via monoamine outflow via the spinal accessory nerve (cranial nerve 11) to the sternocleidomastoid/trapezius muscles. Or he just needs to quit head banging so hard.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Lol.
You remind me of myself a couple years ago - in love with words.
I was not feeling well at all these last few days, so my mental sharpness isn't there.

Vagus activation is likely responsible for a variety of neurological problems I've had, but neck tightness probably isn't on the list.
I will say that my worst neck tightness occurs when my other neurological symptoms are at their worst - i.e. difficulty thinking, vision becomes dimmer, tinnitus in ear, severe anxiety, dizziness...

Perhaps there is an overlap occuring.

 

[ScaredFirstTimer]

Lol.
You remind me of myself a couple years ago - in love with words.
I was not feeling well at all these last few days, so my mental sharpness isn't there.

Vagus activation is likely responsible for a variety of neurological problems I've had, but neck tightness probably isn't on the list.
I will say that my worst neck tightness occurs when my other neurological symptoms are at their worst - i.e. difficulty thinking, vision becomes dimmer, tinnitus in ear, severe anxiety, dizziness...

Perhaps there is an overlap occuring.

It would be interesting for many of us if you could describe your recovery over 3,5 years in more detail, and maybe say something about what symptoms you still struggle with now, if you really struggle still? I understand that you still have some fluctuations. Many of us would really appreciate an update.

Maybe in the recovery stories thread? (I sincerely hope that you have found some serenity and happiness in life by now)