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  • EADD Moderators: Shambles

Drummond's international grey

Agreed again with the first part.

As for the second... I also had Chill Out and several other obscure/nigh on impossible to find cos they destroyed every copy albums and singles. That really did sting. As did selling The Orb. Was just thinking about that earlier oddly enough. The things you'll do for drugs sometimes :\
 
Shambles said:
When the UK population was at 20m we were still at the sweatshops and slums stage. Doesn't sound like some kinda British Bulldog paradise to me to be honest.
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That wasn't because the population was too high tho, that's because it was 300 years ago.

Surely there has to be a population level you'd consider too high tho - or once we've half of East Europe here do we send invites out to Turkey and Africa? Are you for bulding another million houses on the greenbelt for example?

Vurtual said:
we're still as rich as we are (6th richest country?!)
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What does "6th richest" mean in reality tho virtual? That there's a load of rich people in the city of london and a load of Oligarchs? For most working people life is getting poorer not richer.

Those people are the problem not a few immigrants.

True, if it was just a few immigrants. When it's millions of immigrants it makes the top 1% rub their hands with glee. They've got millions of 25 year olds desperate to work 20 hours a day for fuck-all who are glad for the privilege. There's nothing clever about working like a silly cunt - it took the English 200 years fighting for an existence that consisted of more than work. All that's being pissed away and dismantled with the help of endless cheap labour.
 
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I'll let you know if it ever comes to a point where I think it's too far. I honestly don't think that is the case at the moment though. If it were truly the case that "foreigners come here stealing all our jobs" why are the unemployment figures more or less the same year in and year out? I know they're manipulated as hell but they always have been and I don't believe the government competent enough to wangle it so it just happens to balance out the incoming immigration levels whilst disguising the hordes of those born here who've all had their jobs whipped out from under them. All this immigration stuff is fear-mongering and panicking over things which have never happened before and will probably never happen in the future. We've absorbed countless waves of immigrants from all corners of the world. We've shipped plenty off to swipe other folks' countries too. I think we've done a lot better on the deal overall and should probably be grateful we've gotten off so lightly cos we don't really deserve to have done.

And I'm pretty sure there were plenty of people who thought we were overcrowded in the late Victorian era (when population was at 20m). There had been massive influx of people from the country to the cities and insane levels of overcrowding. We're nothing like as crammed together now as back then. How many families do you share a single room with?
 
To be fair.. (Only read up to the beginning of shambles comment).. Human rights has gone way fucking OTT imo..

I also agree (from what I've read) of Ismenes comments about immigration..
 
My tenement flat would have been famously overcrowded just a few decades ago. As it stands I've got plenty of room, could probably squeeze a couple of Romanians in.

Why do people think that every fucker in every other country is sitting champing at the bit, just waiting for the second they can jump to the mighty UK? I doubt that's the case. Mind some paper was claiming that every flight out of (I think) Romania was booked to fuck with folk coming over here to claim the dole. A TV news reporter stood at arrivals when a flight was coming in, not a single fucker on it that wasn't simply going on holiday or returning from holiday.

I don't see anyone complaining about the thousands (hundred of thousands maybe?) of unemployed Brits in Spain. Send them home, eh?
 
Ismene said:
Are you for building another million houses on the greenbelt for example?
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If it means less rabbits, yes. Tell you what, there's about 800 sq.miles of army shooting range in Pembrokeshire - you can start building on that. No harm to rabbits there probably.

There's nothing clever about working like a silly cunt - it took the English 200 years fighting for an existence that consisted of more than work. All that's being pissed away and dismantled with the help of endless cheap labour.
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Endless cheap labour started with the destruction of the working class by Thatcher, not by immigrants. That's where your class war was won - by the ruling class, the rich.
 
Never been anything on this scale before tho. A million plus in 10 years? If you put together every wave of immigration to the UK for the last 12,000 years you'd be hard pushed to reach a million.

As look at it from an impersonal "What Britain did" - why not look at it from the position of a 50 year old English guy seeing his wages go down and down? What about all the companies sacking British workers on decent contracts and replacing them with cheap temporary east european labour?

It would've been great if the immigrants had brought a culture of unionism with them - that might have driven up everyones wages. Instead we're on a race to the bottom, even the Polish are terrified of what the Romanians will work for.
 
StoneHappyMonday said:
Tell you what, there's about 800 sq.miles of army shooting range in Pembrokeshire - you can start building on that.
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May as well put a motorway through it while you're at it.

Endless cheap labour started with the destruction of the working class by Thatcher

Nah, even Thatcher at her worst didn't have a millions of 25 year olds desperate to work 23 hours a day for fuck-all and pay mill-owner permission to come to work. And remember this is just the first 10 years of it - you ain't seen nothing yet.

Once the population gets up another few million we're going to be choking down enough diesel fumes to make the air in Shanghai taste sweeter than Claudia Schiffers pussy.
 
Ismene said:
May as well put a motorway through it while you're at it.
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Yep, extend the M4 through rich English bastards gardens in Pembrokeshire. I'm all for it. And building on that fucking stupidly large firing range.

Nah, even Thatcher at her worst didn't have a millions of 25 year olds desperate to work 23 hours a day for fuck-all
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Yes she did. The problem was that the manufacturing base was destroyed and those cheap labour jobs didn't exist - because Tesco was yet to boom and invent them. That's where your English working class community was destroyed - not by immigrants but by the English ruling class.

Rile at them. Not darkies (from Poland/Romania).
 
Ismene said:
As look at it from an impersonal "What Britain did" - why not look at it from the position of a 50 year old English guy seeing his wages go down and down? What about all the companies sacking British workers on decent contracts and replacing them with cheap temporary east european labour?
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I'd say that is a problem with employers not with employees. It's human nature to want to better your lifestyle. If I could raise my living standards by going elsewhere I may well be tempted myself. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I do think there is something wrong with an employer culture of trying to do everything on the cheap no matter what. That's not the fault of those fulfilling the vacancies though it's the fault of the employers, the regulators and government. If they set proper standards wages should be less of an issue. Why should a company make sillymoney in profits whilst workers have their wages frozen or cut? Or be threatened with unemployment if they don't do more than they're actually employed to do. Take it up with your boss and stop picking on people who have nothing to do with your problem.
 
Ismene said:
...As look at it from an impersonal "What Britain did" - why not look at it from the position of a 50 year old English guy seeing his wages go down and down? What about all the companies sacking British workers on decent contracts and replacing them with cheap temporary east european labour?

It would've been great if the immigrants had brought a culture of unionism with them - that might have driven up everyones wages. Instead we're on a race to the bottom, even the Polish are terrified of what the Romanians will work for.
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I think you're pointing at the wrong enemies, which is exactly the plan. I agree that there are social problems from immigration, but there are as many home-made problems for the current population of various sorts - the common factor is the problems, whether low wages or lack of infastructure, come largely from increasing wealth extraction by capital/coporations. Pointing at the actual immigrants is to miss the people who are behind getting immigrants here and paying them crap wages (and for paying us slightly less crap wages), but dismantling our public services at the same time so they can pay less tax (and make a buck from the sale).

You've got to go to the root of the problem which is neoliberalism (or 'blatcherism' if you like) - they're the ones who's stated policy is to put downward pressure on wages in every country for the benefit of the corporate elite. Remember that talk from the social democracy days about we'd only work 2 days a week and have loads of lesiure time due to increasing automation? Well the capitalists decided that instead of that, they'd pay us much less and have permanent unemployment instead - welcome to the future!

EDIT: yeah, what shambles said (better)

I'll leave it with Stewart Lee:

"Bloody Hugenots,

coming over ere

doubting transubstantiation"


//can't find the clip, but here's one on Paul Nuttal of the ukip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HMhWB95ldQ
 
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Shambles said:
That's not the fault of those fulfilling the vacancies though it's the fault of the employers, the regulators and government.
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Isn't the problem that if enough of them come then it will become as fucking wank here as the place they came from? Why would an employer want to increase the minimum wage to a living wage when you've got 250,000 east europeans coming every year willing to work for tuppence-ha'penny?
 
Why do you get to win just because of where your mother happened to shit you out? Is it not fair that someone can come here to try and have a better life? Or should we just shout "Sorry, but fuck you. You were born in the wrong place!"

Is that 250,000 figure legit or did some UKIP cunt tell you that?
 
Ismene said:
Why would an employer want to increase the minimum wage to a living wage
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Good question if you halt it right there. Because they ain't philanthropists are they? They're capitalists. The same people who stuck 6 year olds up chimneys just over 100 years ago. Before any darkies came here.
 
parttime crackhead said:
Why do you get to win just because of where your mother happened to shit you out? Is it not fair that someone can come here to try and have a better life? Or should we just shout "Sorry, but fuck you. You were born in the wrong place!"

Is that 250,000 figure legit or did some UKIP cunt tell you that?
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Bang on. I said something very similar on the first page.
 
So if someone is shit out on land that's got oil on it then they have no more right to it than a big western corporation? What are those Ogoni tribesmen fucking moaning about eh?
 
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