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Opioids synthetic opiates?

F

fizzymk

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
532
I was reading thru the methadone megathread just now and found it interesting. but it sparked a question in my head...I know all about the Nazis creating methadone, due to either a morphine shortage or someone trying to find an alternative to heroin, since the german scientists were able to create methadone, a full synthetic opiate, why hasnt another synthetic been created sine then, that is as strong as methadone?

I mean, WW2 was a LOOOONG time ago, its strange no one since then has been able to create another synthetic opiate, I kinda would think there would be hundreds of others by now...?

It seems to me most agree methadone is good, both recreationally as well as for legitimate medical needs, but the only negative is the horrible w/ds, so since it is now 2014, why cant someone come up with a hypothetical 'methadone 2' that has all the positives, but none of the negatives? I thought when it comes to chemistry and this kind of thing, they can change and alter pretty much any aspect of a drug?

Or does the DEA somehow limit how much research can be done in this area, and how many painkilling type drugs can be available?
 
Well buddy I'm sure this has been thought of no I know for sure it has been thought of but no luck creating non addictive opiates. I could see how it could be so hard I'm mean even bupe has bad w/D's and it doesn't work on hardly any receptors to get you
High I think when bupe came out scientists thought they hit the jackpot with a non addictive opiate.

Ever since suboxone though I have heard of more trials to create an opiate with non addictive qualities after seeing how bupe can treat pain and withdrawal but not give an intense high.

In a perfect world we would have a new methadone with no side effects/addictive qualities but unfortunately this isn't a perfect world my friend its a good idea but let's get real we haven't even found a cure for the common cold with the technology we have.
They will keep working on it though just like they work on the cure for cancer its just not gonna come out anytime soon or while we are alive anyways.
 
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What he meant is an analogue that has no side effects or addictive qualities. He is asking why isn't there a new methadone being invented that isn't addictive and that doesn't cause any aide effects and that's harder than you may think even with our technology.
 
trainspotter10102 said:
What he meant is an analogue that has no side effects or addictive qualities. He is asking why isn't there a new methadone being invented that isn't addictive and that doesn't cause any aide effects and that's harder than you may think even with our technology.
Click to expand...

Ahh. So why isn't there a wonder drug out there yet that cures us with no negative side effects? Hah. Maybe one day..
 
Lol yea just cause Hitler invented methadone when he needed his opiates free flowing into his army doesn't mean it was a wonder opiate far from it its still addictive as hell and has major side effects. If there was a way to make opiates side effect free then why wouldnt somebody have realised that instead of getting everybody addicted and costing taxpayers billions trying to clean up the problem if they could just invent an opiate with none of these issues I think we wouldn't have a lot of the problems we see today
 
^Call Mythbusters on that Hitler thing. True, it was developed in Nazi Germany by I.G.Farben but it was never used. It was considered too toxic. It was the US taking all Nazi era patents by Eminent Domain and someone trying it out on junkies in US prisons.
 
trainspotter10102 said:
What he meant is an analogue that has no side effects or addictive qualities. He is asking why isn't there a new methadone being invented that isn't addictive and that doesn't cause any aide effects and that's harder than you may think even with our technology.
Click to expand...
Well, yes, what i was thinking was something that would give an opiate 'feeling' so it would still get a person feeling good, the euphoria, no aches or pains, etc. BUT with absolutely no withdrawls if it is stopped. I know that probably sounds like an oxymoron, but like I said, I dont know much about chemistry, and its not really the drug causing the w/ds, its the human brain and its receptors, so what we need is some substance that will produce the 'high' but will not cause any w/ds...wishful thinking I guess! Couldnt they just create synthetic dopamine or serotonin?

But if such a drug is ever created, it will probably give heroin a run for its money!!

God, I hate tolerance!!! LOL It sucks our brains work the way they do in this regard!!
 
It's not about the drug's chemistry, it's about brain chemistry. You can't stimulate opioid receptors long without causing withdrawal.

This thread is started on the premise that no synthetic opioid has been made since methadone, lol. Wait until he finds Wikipedia and comes across fentanyl, tramadol, tilidine, diethylthiambutene, pentazocine, azaprocine, and whatever else I can't think of off the top of my head.

Methadone II, as you ask for, would probably be best considered buprenorphine, AKA Suboxone.
 
fizzymk said:
and its not really the drug causing the w/ds, its the human brain and its receptors, so what we need is some substance that will produce the 'high' but will not cause any w/ds...wishful thinking I guess!
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yes, but just like the wds are caused by the receptors so are the effects ftom the drug...
but who knows, maybe one day we'll have something like that
in the meantime all we can do is exercise to produce endorphins and similar stuff
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
tramadol analogs
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Tramadol itself isn't synthetic, it's an (awesome) naturally occuring substance. Since you said "analogues", you might know this already, but I thought I'd mention it since it is not a widely known fact and pretty interesting considering tramadol has such a sick pharmacology and 4 isomers which are (ofc) equally distributed in the commercially available synthetic version, but not in the naturally occuring one. The root bark of nauclea latifolia has been used for centuries, maybe even thousands of years to relieve pain. I'd love to extract some to see the difference for myself because I fucking love tramadol, it's always been my favourite opiate. Recreationally I'd prefer oral tramadol over hydromorphone iv, even if that means not getting an awesome rush.
Actually, you wouldn't even have to extract it because the strongest bark contains up to 4% of tramadol!! 5g->200mg...

@fizzymk
It was the Germans man, not the nazis and surely not the Nazis. Come on. You are talking about the generation of my grand parents. I don't call your ancestors the Slavers with a capital S either. Not everyone was a national socialist, you know. You probably don't want to put into the same group of people with that crazy-ass war-mongering fuck George W. Bush Jr. either. I can't force you to stop referring to the entire German populace as "the Nazis", but it might be worth considering. It makes a person look like he's got his education off Discovery Channel imho.

Generally, if you really want to write about the history of the compound, it would would be fair to name those who invented it or would you say it does Thomas Edison justice to say the Americans invented the light bulb?
 
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Hammilton said:
It's not about the drug's chemistry, it's about brain chemistry. You can't stimulate opioid receptors long without causing withdrawal.

This thread is started on the premise that no synthetic opioid has been made since methadone, lol. Wait until he finds Wikipedia and comes across fentanyl, tramadol, tilidine, diethylthiambutene, pentazocine, azaprocine, and whatever else I can't think of off the top of my head.

Methadone II, as you ask for, would probably be best considered buprenorphine, AKA Suboxone.
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Yes like I said scientists thought that they had something like that with bupe buy it turned out to be just as addictive if not more then methadone.
 
Am I the only sick fuck out there that thinks that part of the fun with opiate use is the instant relief from W/D symptoms you get when taking a hit whilst clucking? I mean that after you've got a hefty tolerance (and proportionate W/D symptoms) that the main avenue of fun comes from that blast of instant relief you get from taking your fix. I like it so much I deliberately wait so as to maximise this effect.

As to the topic of non-addictive opiates would Kratom come under this umbrella? My experience of this is pretty limited but it seems to give a fairly good approximation of mild opium intoxication with no W/D symptoms at all. My pals back in Thailand use it to kick opium habits - in that respect it is basically an all natural, symptom-less methadone except obviously this came first!
 
I agree that bupe was probably viewed as exactley that which you speak of but obviously it comes with the same baggage as methadone. It's definitely not as bad, my first time on and getting off meth was pure hell: absolutely the worst W/D's I've ever had - it lasted 7 weeks until I finally relapsed and that was only after about 9 months of use from 60 mg to 15 mg then one month of residential detox. The 7 weeks was from my last dose of meth (5 mg) to the point I relapsed. In comparison I was on 16 mg of Subutex for 7 months, tapered down to 2 mg and quit cold and experienced almost no W/D's whatsoever! Finally the 'get out of jail' card I had hankered for for so long. Alas it was not to be, after abusing it recreationally for some time I now find it to be equally as addictive with guaranteed W/D's if I use it regularly albeit significantly milder but quite a bit longer.

Back to the drawing board!
 
WILLASS said:
Am I the only sick fuck out there that thinks that part of the fun with opiate use is the instant relief from W/D symptoms you get when taking a hit whilst clucking? I mean that after you've got a hefty tolerance (and proportionate W/D symptoms) that the main avenue of fun comes from that blast of instant relief you get from taking your fix. I like it so much I deliberately wait so as to maximise this effect.

As to the topic of non-addictive opiates would Kratom come under this umbrella? My experience of this is pretty limited but it seems to give a fairly good approximation of mild opium intoxication with no W/D symptoms at all. My pals back in Thailand use it to kick opium habits - in that respect it is basically an all natural, symptom-less methadone except obviously this came first!
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You can become addicted to Kratom as well. Search around BL. There are many threads about kratom dependency and addiction. Granted, it's much harder to become addicted to than actual opiates like heroin or oxy, and the withdrawal is much lighter if you do pick up a habit, but it still happens and is unpleasant.

One of the other major downsides to Kratom, is that unless you have a very small habit/tolerance, it's not going to do shit. However, it works great after you've tapered down to a very low dose of methadone or bupe, and then start taking it to treat your withdrawals. I know many people who got clean that way with minimal symptoms.
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
You can become addicted to Kratom as well. earch around BL. There are many threads about kratom dependency and addiction. Granted, it's much harder to become addicted to than actual opiates like heroin or oxy, and the withdrawal is much lighter if you do pick up a habit, but it still happens and is unpleasant.
Click to expand...

To be honest I know very little about Kratom other than a few recreational uses and reports from friends but I hadn't heard about W/D symptoms - I'll look into it more now. Is there a preparation of the active ingredient available do you know? What is the active ingredient?
 
It's a combination of alkaloids that act on your opiate receptors, like mitragynine which is the most abundant, and tons of others. So it's not just one active ingredient. But there are more potent kinds out there and also extracts which are much stronger and more concentrated.
 
it isnt anuthing to do with the drug--its biology. if you stimulaye opiatevreceptors lonf enough, your body:s own pain killing properties will essentiallt paxk up, as they are not needed. same way your balls.shrink.when.tou.take steroids. your body gets lazy and stops prodicing its own endorphins, because why shoukd it?
toure supplying.it with all it needs and.when.taken away, they take a long time.to come back (withdrawals)
 
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