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Meditative/Psychedelic experiences from stimulants

A

AlphaMethylPhenyl

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I've been doing a fair amount of thinking about this. This probably isn't advanced but is it possible for one to incur a quazi-psychedelic experience off of drugs which inhibit the reuptake of and/or release serotonin to a small(ish) extent such as amphetamine (or 2-fma and its cousins) and cocaine? Has anyone heard of this happening?
 
i have little experience with stimulants, and have no formal knowledge of any of this stuff, so take what i say with a grain of salt, but i just learned on the other thread that psychedelia (at least in the classic, serotonergic psychedelics) comes from molecules differents from serotonin (in case, the psychedelic drug) binding to the 5HT2A receptor. serotonin binding to this receptor produces our normal, sober perception, and other shit binding there produces psychedelia.

but i think that higher than normal levels of serotonin wouldn't produce psychedelia (because you'd still have only serotonin binding to the receptors), more like serotonin syndrome. i believe a stimulant would have to bind to the serotonin receptors to produce psychedelia (such as MDA does i guess) not just raise serotonin concentrations.

from a more practical point of view, i never notice a hint of psychedelia with coke (though i'm not an experienced user). some people say they get mild psychedelia from MDMA but i believe that this could come from some affinity to 5HT2A, and not to its serotonin releasing properties.

i do hope someone with more knowledge on this subject comes by and says something though
 
With some classic stimulants such as meth or amph I get mild visual alterations such as colour enhancement and increase in contrast. However I am not sure if these alterations are produced by the same mechanism psychedelics produce visual effects, but I doubt it.
 
Burn it up said:
With some classic stimulants such as meth or amph I get mild visual alterations such as colour enhancement and increase in contrast. However I am not sure if these alterations are produced by the same mechanism psychedelics produce visual effects, but I doubt it.
Click to expand...

Yeah this about as "psychedelic" stimulants can get as far as I've heard... I think this colour/contrast enhancement is simply the increased noradrenaline activity activating the fight or flight responses... Vision gets "sharper", hearing is refined, heart rate and blood pressure goes up, etc. You're more in the moment and your senses are enhanced in order to increases the chances of survival in short term stressful moments.
 
Ho-Chi-Minh said:
I've been doing a fair amount of thinking about this. This probably isn't advanced but is it possible for one to incur a quazi-psychedelic experience off of drugs which inhibit the reuptake of and/or release serotonin to a small(ish) extent such as amphetamine (or 2-fma and its cousins) and cocaine? Has anyone heard of this happening?
Click to expand...

Maybe this is an example of stimulant psychosis? Some descriptions of that experience certainly sound "quasi-psychedelic" although serotonin and 5-HT2A aren't necessarily involved.
 
neurotic said:
i have little experience with stimulants, and have no formal knowledge of any of this stuff, so take what i say with a grain of salt, but i just learned on the other thread that psychedelia (at least in the classic, serotonergic psychedelics) comes from molecules differents from serotonin (in case, the psychedelic drug) binding to the 5HT2A receptor. serotonin binding to this receptor produces our normal, sober perception, and other shit binding there produces psychedelia.

but i think that higher than normal levels of serotonin wouldn't produce psychedelia (because you'd still have only serotonin binding to the receptors), more like serotonin syndrome. i believe a stimulant would have to bind to the serotonin receptors to produce psychedelia (such as MDA does i guess) not just raise serotonin concentrations.

from a more practical point of view, i never notice a hint of psychedelia with coke (though i'm not an experienced user). some people say they get mild psychedelia from MDMA but i believe that this could come from some affinity to 5HT2A, and not to its serotonin releasing properties.

i do hope someone with more knowledge on this subject comes by and says something though
Click to expand...

The thing about the 5-HT2A receptor that makes it interesting, and makes this subject more complex is the fact that it has multiple activation pathways. The reason why serotonin doesn't produce psychedelia even though it binds to 5-HT2A is because it only activates the receptor in one of two possible ways. This is also why there are some other compounds that bind to 5-HT2A and yet are devoid of psychedelic effects. It is possible for a compound to be an agonist at one pathway and an antagonist at the other. For example, before it was known that 5-HT2A had multiple pathways, I believe 2C-B was found to be an antagonist at the 5-HT2A receptor, and this was baffling, because it clearly produces effects consistent with classic (as in 5-HT2A-agonistic) psychedelics. Later, the multiple pathways of the receptor were discovered, and it now seems that 2C-B is an antagonist at the pathway which is activated by serotonin, but an agonist at the pathway which is required for psychedelic effects. I'm not at home now, but if anyone wants a source for this I can post one a little later. Anyway, the point is, that it doesn't just take a compound that is not serotonin binding to 5-HT2A to produce psychedelia, it also has to activate the correct pathway.

I hope this helps to answer your question regarding why serotonin doesn't produce psychedelia even though it binds to the correct targets.
 
brainwaves.corante.com/archives/2006/07/12/mystical_mushrooms_surebut_spiritual_ritalin.php

The study was trying to see if psilocybin mushrooms could create a spiritual experience, with Ritalin as the placebo. Oddly enough, four of the people who took the Ritalin reported having a spiritual experience. Of course not really "quasi-psychedelic", but still spiritual.

I have noticed IME, that meditation itself can lead to psychedelic-like states. When I do it on amphetamines, it can feel psychedelic, but I see that more as the meditation and the amphetamines acting as a catalyst to get to that state.


Not sure how to make that into a hyperlink.
 
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I've had some strange, color-saturated experiences with methamp and amphetamines.

MDA is definitely a spiritual and valuable psychedelic stim IMHO.

25i-NBOMe is interesting once or twice, but there's nothing to gain introspectively, no empathogenic properties, and no spiritual value. Just crazy, geometrical spider web visuals that repeat over and over and make usually unnoticeable patterns stick out prominently. It lasts too long IME, the visuals get old, the euphoria is shallow and empty. I respect that it can be fun at times and might be more appealing to others. NOT ME! Although the visuals can put one in a trance because they are soo heavy.

MDPV definitely had some psychedelic stimmy edge too it, but a dirty one at that. Euphoric as fuck. Depression for like two weeks after though... I even had constant crying spells, confusion and anxiety. I dosed way too high. I'll leave that and it's nasty cousin a-PVP alone.

I'd definitely love to give Phenmetrazine a shot. The phenethylamine skeleton is fascinating itself. Very pro-sexual I guess

Obviously mescaline (Ive yet to try :( ) is a beautiful stim by the TR's I've read, as well as to the fact that pharmacology fascinates me.

OH YEAH, 4-fa definitely had some interesting empathogenic stim effects, even some subtle 5-ht affinity IME.
 
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