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re-assosiate pleasure

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tundradesert523

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Mar 26, 2014
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So one of the main problems with coming off of drugs is that our minds have forgotten how to derive pleasure from normal activities in life. causeing many to suffer with anxiety, depression, anhedonia, and often we are led to relapse

my question; Is there any drug that we can use to make these daily activities enhanced?

this is far from the norm of drug use where pleasure is set by a chemical.

my idea would be something seritogenic, something that makes things seem more interesting or stand out. as psychedelics would do. make the mundane a little more interesting, cause curiosity, etc.

any ideas?
 
No. Then you're right back off where you started, viz. dependent on drugs for daily functioning.

Enrich your life with hobbies, good friends, music, etc. rather than chemicals.
 
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sekio said:
No. Then you're right back off where you started.
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thats if youre using something that would simply increase pleasure response without association. An example of that would be most dopaminergic stimulants where the drug increases dopamine response regardless of what you're doing. The problem with that is you would have a dopamine response for meaningless situations and that would lead to the drug being the only source of pleasure.

my idea is more of something that rewards you for things that are already producing a small response. Like a conditioning effect, EX: You work and you get paid, just through neurotransmitters. This is just kind of a theory but i think it may be obtainable. And the only reason i mention psychedelics is because they through serotonin and make things more pronounced. Scary is more scary, sad is more sad, happy is more happy, etc. So that would suggest that serotonin might be able to modulate these things.

sorry my original question could have been more specific

*and yes doing things that make you happy is the point here. Its just that many people coming off of highly rewarding drugs have lost most ability to get pleasure from even their greatest hobbies, friends, etc (anhedonia). And that usually takes from months to years to be able to do that. And thats where my question comes in, what can help you with that process.
 
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Sekio is right. Usings drugs to stop the effects of other drugs is just a stupid, vicious cycle that will just lead to a dependency on that new drug.
 
and yes doing things that make you happy is the point here. Its just that many people coming off of highly rewarding drugs have lost most ability to get pleasure from even their greatest hobbies, friends, etc (anhedonia). And that usually takes from months to years to be able to do that. And thats where my question comes in, what can help you with that process.
 
and yes doing things that make you happy is the point here. Its just that many people coming off of highly rewarding drugs have lost most ability to get pleasure from even their greatest hobbies, friends, etc (anhedonia). And that usually takes from months to years to be able to do that. And thats where my question comes in, what can help you with that process.
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Get new friends and new hobbies and expose yourself to new, novel activities and situations. Don't sit on your ass chain smoking and masturbating and hoping everything will suddenly switch into total euphoria.
 
tundradesert523 said:
So one of the main problems with coming off of drugs is that our minds have forgotten how to derive pleasure from normal activities in life. causeing many to suffer with anxiety, depression, anhedonia, and often we are led to relapse

my question; Is there any drug that we can use to make these daily activities enhanced?

this is far from the norm of drug use where pleasure is set by a chemical.

my idea would be something seritogenic, something that makes things seem more interesting or stand out. as psychedelics would do. make the mundane a little more interesting, cause curiosity, etc.

any ideas?
Click to expand...

SSRIs?
 
sekio said:
Get new friends and new hobbies and expose yourself to new, novel activities and situations. Don't sit on your ass chain smoking and masturbating and hoping everything will suddenly switch into total euphoria.
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From experience its not that simple.
 
It's not clear that what you're looking for is even imaginable; how would a drug distinguish cleaning your kitchen from, say, a walk in the woods, or breaking into someone's house and cleaning their kitchen (decidedly more exciting). What you seem to be asking for can be accomplished more readily by cognitive-behavioral therapy, which has the advantage of lasting longer than intoxication.
 
^ it sounds to me like antidepressant drugs (as mentioned earlier) or antidepressant counseling like you mentioned could both benefit tundradesert523 in the way he described. Combined with positive lifestyle changes (even if OP isn't literally sitting around smoking and masturbating all day) I think either type of therapy can have real positive benefits.


Dysphoric said:
From experience its not that simple.
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You're right, if it was no one would be depressed. Sustaining those kinds of changes without any help is next to impossible for a lot of people. I think the major benefits from depression treatment (whether drug or counseling) is giving people the strength to make the kinds of lifestyle changes that will lead to a better outlook in the long term, even after treatment ends.
 
endotropic said:
^ it sounds to me like antidepressant drugs (as mentioned earlier) or antidepressant counseling like you mentioned could both benefit tundradesert523 in the way he described. Combined with positive lifestyle changes (even if OP isn't literally sitting around smoking and masturbating all day) I think either type of therapy can have real positive benefits.




You're right, if it was no one would be depressed. Sustaining those kinds of changes without any help is next to impossible for a lot of people. I think the major benefits from depression treatment (whether drug or counseling) is giving people the strength to make the kinds of lifestyle changes that will lead to a better outlook in the long term, even after treatment ends.
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No, I mean those things even when changing your lifestyle, it hardly put a dent in my anhedonia/depression. Changing lifestyle isn't going to just magically alter neurological disorders/deficits. I think in some cases drugs are the only option.
 
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Exercising helps a lot man, especially during depression, even though it can feel hard to go out and do it. If you push yourself hard enough, at least cardio wise, you can achieve a totally natural euphoria from just endorphins alone. When I dont exercise I pretty much get back to being really depressed within 2 to 3 days.
 
Dysphoric said:
No, I mean those things even when changing your lifestyle, it hardly altered my life in terms of anhedonia/depression. Changing lifestyle isn't going to just magically alter neurological disorders/deficits. I think in some cases drugs are the only option.
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Well there's no one size fits all solution for psychiatric disorders, and I'm not trying to tell you what will work for you, but I've personally witnessed how antidepressant treatment can lead to dramatic lifestyle changes that end up making a huge difference in a person's overall well being.

My friend, after realizing he was miserable and starting antidepressant treatment, dropped out of law school, broke up with his girlfriend, gave up his dog and all his possessions to move across the country and start over. Now he's doing great and certainly doesn't need the medication any more.

Sometimes really drastic changes are needed to break out of a negative pattern. And sometimes real neurological disorders are insurmountable with any amount of lifestyle improvement, but why would you assume the worst if there's still a slight possibility for sustained improvement?
 
This topic hasn't gotten to pharmacologically specific, so I'm going ahead to move this to "sober living", since this is really a question of how to live after a period of prior drug abuse.

ebola
 
Sekio et. al are correct, trading one dependence for another is not worth it but I do want to share my anecdotal evidence after surpassing 100 days sober:

My doctor started prescribing Dexedrine (Adderall, basically) long before I even caught a habit (heroin) but I have re-started my prescription and I've found it's extremely helpful with the PAWS. I won't say that it's not trading in one for another, but I've never had a problem with amphetamines and it's under a doctor's supervision so I'm not completely caught up in personal rationalizations. To each his own.

I would like to find motivation and enjoyment without Dexedrine, and I can when I don't take it - it's more of a push in a bottle for when I can't get the ball rolling. Once it's rolling, I feel 'naturally' good about what I've accomplished and that kind of diminishes the need for the Dexedrine.

Not recommended for extremely addictive personalities/those who don't have years and years experience with a particular prescription. (I'm not advising illicit drugs - someone monitoring you is important, and honesty.)

Stay strong
 
When you are conditioned by drug use to experience life in an altered state--either heightened emotions or numbed emotions e.g.--the adjustment to experiencing life simply with the five senses you were born with can feel lackluster in comparison. That comparison is where the thinking gets muddled IMO.

Sekio's advice to get new friends, new hobbies, new interests or career is not simplistic at all. How easy is it to change all that up? It's not easy and the rewards are far greater for that very reason. The difference is that a drug changes things in your experience instantly whereas life changes and internal changes happen subtly over time. My ability to experience happiness, bliss and even ecstasy has continued to deepen over a whole lifetime. When I was young I wanted everything to happen NOW. The problem was that it was never enough because enhancing one moment sucks the air out of the following moment; you never have the chance to let a larger beauty unfold. Finding the abundance of possibility surrounding you every single moment that you are alive is entirely possible. It is all about your thoughts and those often are more habitual and reactionary than you think. Study your own thoughts. Play around with them. Learn life's rhythms and your own and watch the interplay. Find a creative outlet that resonates in you that involves both body and mind--art has a way of deepening living profoundly.

@atara: I am going to be laughing over "break into the neighbors' house and clean their floor" for a long time! Next time I need an adrenaline rush I am going to consider breaking and entering with the added enhancement of domestic satisfaction.=D
 
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