Help with opiate taper

BigFordTruck

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
7
Location
SC
I've been abusing opiates (hydro and oxy primarily) for over 5 years. In the last year or two, that's turned into abusing the shit out of them. I've tried a couple times cold turkey. Not gonna happen. I'm a chickenshit. I read somewhere about a taper plan that goes like, regular dose for three days, on the 4th, cut it by a third, keep on three days, cut it by a third again, and so on. I thought I'd try it, but very open to any suggestions. I'm up to 70+ mg of hydro or oxy per day, if I can get it. Not so much now. I've single handedly broke our bank and left us in debt, and I've got 2.5 people that *might* have something at any given time. I'm having bad problems with depression, bordering on suicidal, and I'm tired of living constantly stressed because I never know if I'm okay for tomorrow. Any questions, I'll be happy to answer. And all advise is welcome and appreciated.
 
Hey BFT and welcome to Bluelight:).. Great to hear the your ready to jump off the ride. What starts off pretty nice turns into a damn nightmare right. Shit you can do this. What have you used in the past, as far as medications, to treat the symptoms of the withdrawal?
 
I have a surprisingly helpful doctor, who actually listens, and is willing to try my suggestions if she thinks it's a good idea. I'm on Prozac 40mg, trazodone 50 mg, just every day. She's given me clonidine .1mg, which I find helps some, but not enough, so I asked her to give me something to knock me out and make me sleep, no matter what. Something with some ass. She gave me hydroxyzine, which does not knock me out. It helps some, but not like I was wanting. I've got an appt coming up, and I intend to lay out the taper plan, and ask for a meaner sleeping pill, and maybe a couple weeks of a benzo. I know she won't be too thrilled at that, but there's very little risk of addiction there, simply because I don't like benzos. I love opiates. :)
 
Thats great news that you have a good Doctor. Here are some great medications you may wish to explore. You will likely find the largest benefit from the use of one of the GABA's (neurontin or lyrica).Some doctors are aware that these drugs are the best weapon we have to combat the symptoms of opiat withdrawal but many are not. The word about this is spreading and there have been some fully creditable medical studies that fully suport this. The use of one of these drugs has large positive effects for most people in promoting sleep, relief of restless legs and treatment of the neuropathic pain as well as other symptoms. Since the GABA's promote relief in a very similar manor as the benzos, but actually work much better, it is possible to just add a benzo at night if it is needed for sleep and any extra relief it may provide. This will further cut down on the chance of any issues arising from these.

medications for acute opiate detox

The medications I would explore the use of for detox would be:
>Clonidine< DOSED EVER FOUR HOURS..

one of either
>NEURONTIN< >HERE< >HERE<
OR >Lyrica<
OR >phenibut<

>A BENZO BUT JUST AT NIGHT<
>a nsaid<
>melatonin<
tylenol

(Opi Withdrawal) what is the best comfort meds for opiate w/d?
Your Personal Opiate Withdrawal Arsenal

I would also take some time to formulate a couple more plans on top of the tapper plan you are working on.
In order to promote the easiest time getting through this and in order to promote the greatest chance of success its important to come up with strong plans on how to deal with at least four different aspects. Because the acute withdrawal can be pretty uncomfortable they are what we all focus on when we think of getting clean. The trueth is that they can be rough but they are likely the easist part to get through.... By learning about and preparing a plan for the aspects that follow that when we come to them we are able to recognize what is going on and will already have a strong plan in place to deal with what we are likely to face. This will allow us to minimize the negative symtoms decreasing the amount of shit we have to endure. Its really good to come up with a plan ahead of time so its one last thing we have to deal with as we usually have enough to deal with when making the push to finally break free for good.

The four aspects I feal that are really important
1) the acute withdrawal or detox
2) The Post Acute Withdrawal
3) The addiction
4) The roots of the addiction

If we understand these and create strong plans for addressing all these our experience of kicking can be much easier and our chances are much better at makeing it all the way through without finding ourselves having to do the absolutely unwanted task of repeating parts we already made the monumental effort to get through.

Usually about two or three days after the acute are done is when the PAWS kick in. Here is some really good information on PAWS.

PAWS LINKS
Why We Don’t Get Better Immediately: Post-acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS)
Post Acute Withdrawal (PAW) Excerpted From “Staying Sober” By: Terence T. Gorski
Post-acute-withdrawal syndrome Wiki

I know a "I will cross that bridge when I get to it" has places in recovery where its very advantageous. This is not one I would use it on though as the last thing people usually want to do after a acute detox is come up with and implement a plan to deal with the involved set of symptoms PAWS can throw at us. While getting through the acutes is much about medications and just powering through, Getting comfortably through the PAWS requires much more of a proactive approach.

Here are some things that I would incorporate into your plan.
Exercise and Mood
Chemicals and supplements to recover from opiate addiction
Managing depressive thinking
it is a powerful thing to keep our thoughts possitive and here are some threads many of us use to help us do this.
Good things about being off drugs/getting sober
Share something POSITIVE from your day!
Today I Am Thankful For... Ver. 3: Earth, Wind and Fire!
Here is the mindfulness thread.

You can do this. It only takes a little time to get through the tunnel and then wander out of the woods. :)

Im going to transfer this thread up to OD as they good people up there are best people to give you a strong tapper schedule. Once you get this we can have it transferred back down to sober living. While they are hooking ya up with the tapper we can start to work on some plans to deal with the PAWS and such. If you want take a read through the info on PAWS and post any ideas you get to deal with that and then the good people on Bluelight can hopefully help you work into strong finished plan.

SL--> OD in hope of getting a strong Taper Plan. Please Sling this back to SL when appropriate.
 
Oh, wow! Thank you so much! I have been thinking almost exclusively about the quitting, but nothing at all that comes next, and I suppose I should be, because that's where I'd relapse.
 
Big Ford,

Neversick's post above is great. Pretty much all the information you need is right there.

I'd like to highlight point #4: roots of addiction. This is very important. I always used to tell myself, "All I need to do is get off these drugs and my problems will go away." I was wrong. My problems were still there when I moved to Suboxone maintenance. Getting off drugs will give you the opportunity to explore the roots of your addiction. You can think deeply about why you turned to drugs in the first place.

There's another way to look at it: "Work on your yourself and that may help you get off drugs." I was never able to do a taper. Christ, I'd write a whole pages full of dates and mgs and plan exactly how I'd taper off oxycodone during the upcoming 3 weeks. And sure enough within two days I'd rip the sheet up and go back to taking more and more. Tapers are hard man, really hard. But the whole process gives you an opportunity to change your life around.

I'm on Sub maintenance now for 18 months and I feel great. Best of luck to you Big Ford!!!
 
A taper is about my only hope. I can't go cold turkey, and can't afford rehab. I have a personality disorder and severe depression. When I'm not eating pills, I'm in bad shape, and withdrawing brings me scary close to suicidal. So, I guess that also kind of covers the root of the addiction. I've been spending way too much time crying in the bathtub lately. Guilt for what I'm putting everyone through, and fear of stopping. I don't suppose I have to go into detail. I know I can't be the only one. My husband is less than supportive. He doesn't even drink. So, I really can't make him understand what I'm going through. All he cares about is the financial aspect. He gets very frustrated at the moods I've been in. He doesn't know what to do, and when I tell him, just hold me, he doesn't. I'd say that's a whole other story, but it's not really. It's all part of the same story. I've been wanting to get clean so I can reevaluate my marriage, too. I'm not in a position right now to be certain, but I think between my addiction, and his cheating, that it may not last much longer. So, I don't really have any emotional support, which is hard when you're depressed all the time. Always stressed. Feel so alone.
 
But anyway, I guess what I'm looking for right now is a good taper plan, and the support I'll need to make it through quitting and staying quit.
 
Man hydroxyzine definitely sucks its basically the same thing as benedryl but I find it takes longer to kick in.

can you get a hold of any suboxone? I quit a bad h and high dose oxy habit with less than 1 8mg suboxone. A short low dose suboxone taper is actually very effective tho I was still never able to get any sleep even with that. Your trazadone should help sum with that. Having a couple benzos on hand is great.

I recently came off h using kratom. It worked wonders. With kratom I even managed to get some sleep at night. I would suggest some bali but only usebit for about a week then taper off of that so you wont just be delaying the withdrawals. Worked wonders for me. I also used melatonin and benedryl with kratom for sleep tho I wouldnt recommend benedryl that much because itbhas a tendency to give a lot of people in wds restless legs which would keep you from sleeping so ud be tirwed and still not able to sleep. A better alternative would be some to use an l-theanine and magnesium supplement and possibly valerian root instead of the benedryk and along with melatonin. I also took some loperamide for the first few days but not too much. Kava tea helped as well- I cant really stand the taste of the legit root powder n its a pain to make so I got sum yogi kava stress relief tea from walmart which actually tastes good and tho it doesnt "fuck u up" like real kava tea it definitely still helps chill you out a bit.

good luck man let us kno how its going!
 
Like Lechium posted, can you procure suboxone or subutex? With a habit of only 70mg of oxy a day, a couple 8mg subs would be more than enough to do a fast taper and have it be relatively painless. You probably wouldn't even need 2 subs, just one 8mg sub would do it. 4mg on day 1, 2mg on day 2, 1mg on day 3 and maybe take the rest on day 4 if you feel the need.
 
I don't think I can. My doc can't prescribe. Although I intend to have a nice discussion with her Tuesday. Something has gotta happen.
 
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Been there done that. Im new to this sight seeking a little help my self. Was on opiads 10 years. Was also stuck in house no job, was also a homemaker, husband controllin finances. Something had to change. That wasnt me. Ended up in.methadone clinic.got me back, went to work. Fast forward ten more years, all i do is work and sleep.something had to change.i use to be very outgoing. Ive wasted 20 years. I went off 80methadone 11 days ago. Im now on the other side of death.im waking up now.your not alone. Im hear
 
I don't think I can. My doc can't prescribe. Although I intend to have a nice discussion with her Tuesday. Something has gotta happen.

There's a thread up with info on someone tapering successfully off a large oxy hibait with less than 6mgs of suboxone taken over 4 days. Look for it.
 
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