Opioids safe therapeutuc dose of poppies

[xtcgrrrl]

I just want know if there's anybody else out there who uses poppy pods (or seeds) for PAIN, not to get high? And if so what is your dosing schedule like? I have no idea what the half life of poppies is etc. Here's what I do:

I get a 1/2 lb of poppies from my website. I would love to go for a pound, but ironically I've found it's cheaper to buy 2 1/2 pounds than to buy one whole lb from this particular website. That makes no sense, but OK! So i grind up all the pods from that 1/2 lb, put back into a different freezer-strength ziplock bag, and shake it all up to even out the dosing. (That means that now that it's all been mixed up, I'm always going get the same amount of actives in each dose.) So then I put the fine powder into capsules, size 0 capsules, and swallow them. I just want to know, approximately how much is in each capsule (size 0) assuming it's fully packed? A teaspoon? A half teaspoon? And how much should I be dosing, if I want to get the effects of approx. 30 mg oxy in each dose? I know that each batch of poppies is different but maybe if other people have had some experience with dosing with poppies FOR PAIN, they can guide me to about how many capsules, roughly, I should be taking in 1 dose.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[xtcgrrrl]

ugh, NO replies? I need a little help here, guys...I'll give it another couple of days then give up on it...but I thought for SURE this would be the place to come for advice on this type of thing! Maybe I should repost in the pain management megathread?

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

there really isn't anyway to know the proper dose without trying it. why aren't you measuring how much you are putting in each capsule if you want to know?

maybe try performing an alcohol extraction then vaping out the alcohol. the powder that's left will be the much more pure alkaloids. this way if you do it the same way on the same amount you can get a roughly standardized strength.

with the extract you won't have to take nearly as much and may be easier to guage strength. just be careful as it will much more powerful, obviously.

 

[d1ahp]

There is really no way for anyone to give you an answer.

I use poppy seeds to make juice. I do anywhere from a pound to 2 pounds a time. A therapeutic, pain relieving dose I'd estimate at half a pound. As you see my answer is quite irrelevant to your question since we're not getting our stuff from the same source to even begin with.

 

[muie]

Hey man I used to do poppie pods when they were abundant 2010-2011, at that time I had access to a lot of other opioids mainly oxycodone (the proper kind), fentanyl and heroin. I was smoking heroin a lot at that time but I always personally preffered a good poppy pod high, your thinkng the heroin was garbage but that wasn't the case i was the only person in our circle that preffered this to h or pharms, also when our dealer got busted the police sent the h to the lab for analysis and got the result at 52%.

I remeber that tolerence is a big factor, I started with needing 2-3 pods for a good average strenght high to needing 8-10 for the same results in about 2 months period granted I was using other opioids primarly smoking heroin which would cause a fast spike in tolerence.

Also important is preparation! The way I did pods I didn't loose anything and got 100%! I would take the poppie pods and grind them up after which I would swallow the powder with water, nothing else for preparation. The taste wasn't bad at all and it was a reasonable amount to eat from 2-3 pods equivalent to about 2-3 tablespoons. I would save the stems and do the same with the stems, the difference was in potency yet still very potent and worth eating and also in effects being more stimulating.

To gauge your dose think of how much it takes to get you high, than use quarter of that amount! See how that works and titrate from there, good luck!

 

[spacejunk]

"Start low and work your way up if required" is the only sensible advise we can give.

Be aware that it can take 2 or 3 hours to reach peak effects (especially if you are inexperienced with full spectrum alkaloids contained in pods) so I would strongly advise you wait at least this long before you consider redosing.
Redosing is effective, unlike - say, codeine. If you get impatient you run the risk of making yourself ill when it all kicks in.

It sounds like you've got a good system going for natural pain management; does it matter that much how many spoonfuls may fit in a capsule? If you're concerned about it being even, weighing the capsules would be much more accurate (and scales can be acquired for very little cost online nowadays).
If a capsule is your standard measure of dose, maybe you can just work with that, keeping in mind that potency variation exists within batches and in different batches (which you already know!)
I wouldn't stress - just start low and take it slowly and you're good to go.

Try taking 1 cap. See how you feel in 2 or 3 hours. Poppy preparations and oxycodone are two completely different things in my opinion - but i never used either for pain. Their subjective effects are different, as are their analgesic profiles, I would imagine.
For one thing, pods have a very long halflife, unlike oxycodone.

All the best - I hope you get the pain relief you need.

 

[bingey]

^
Good post going with grounds does seem like the way to go , ime grounds compare to tea like ms-contin to morphine ir. also more economical you just have to get used to the long come up as space junk points out.

 

[englishlady]

You have exactly the right way of making sure the dose is equal in each capsule. There is an online guide as to how much powder goes into each size of capsule, but it varies hugely on the fineness or bulkiness of the powder. I agree, and hear you, yours is very fine, but seems there are huge differences.

I would not worry too much about how much is in each capsule. I would worry about taking very tiny amounts first, to guage the results, and my suggestion is to write down how many caps you took, when, which date, and the effects.

Because everyone is different, (metabolism, weight, tolerance etc) it is impossible to say how much will equate to oxy. You are going to have to try it very gradually, and work up to the most effective dose for you.

As said everywhere else -- be very careful. I applaud you for trying to get a painkilling dose and would love to hear your results. Please keep posting and do send me a personal message if you cant.

Best wishes and good luck.

 

[cook]

Im afraid you have to take quite large amounts of those capsules if your goal is something equivalent to 30mg oxy, unless your pods are extremely potent which they usually are not if they are just regular ones. I used to dose pod straw in capsules and the amounts were anywhere from 2-20 capsules for similar effect, and with little tolerance, and still it was not quite the level of 30mg oxy. 2 capsules did it with pharmaceutical very high morphine concetration poppies, but for regular poppies its like 10x the amount and the effect is still not quite the same (perhaps bc alkaloid profiles).

Id say start with 2 capsules and redose 2 more every 1-1,5hrs until you start feeling pain relief and then go from there to gauge your dose. Straw eaten is very long lasting, kind of extended release on its own, so once a day dosing should be good, but you could also try split dosing twice a day.

 

[englishlady]

Im afraid you have to take quite large amounts of those capsules if your goal is something equivalent to 30mg oxy, unless your pods are extremely potent which they usually are not if they are just regular ones. I used to dose pod straw in capsules and the amounts were anywhere from 2-20 capsules for similar effect, and with little tolerance, and still it was not quite the level of 30mg oxy. 2 capsules did it with pharmaceutical very high morphine concetration poppies, but for regular poppies its like 10x the amount and the effect is still not quite the same (perhaps bc alkaloid profiles).

Id say start with 2 capsules and redose 2 more every 1-1,5hrs until you start feeling pain relief and then go from there to gauge your dose. Straw eaten is very long lasting, kind of extended release on its own, so once a day dosing should be good, but you could also try split dosing twice a day.

Hey Cookie - what size capsules did you put the straw into? I guess that is relevant. And one of the issues with this is that it is impossible to tell whether you have extremely potent or 'regular' ones. That makes it even more important to start with a very low dose, even though it is sure to be very frustrating at times. Better safe than sorry.

Seems to follow that the alkaloid profiles would be different than oxy. I didn't know that the straw is extended release on its own, that makes it even trickier to get the least required dose to control the pain.

Good luck OP -- plse let us know how you get on.

 

[spacejunk]

I think saying 'extended release' is bit misleading.
It seems that people who are experienced with poppies don't have such a noticeably long wait for the come-up - but because of the alkaloid profile, the halflife is much longer than most pharmaceutical opiate/opioids.

It's not "extended release"; there's just the chance that your body will take a while to process it at first, and it will inevitably last a long time. Once accustomed to it, I really don't see how it should present too much of a problem.
Dumping the grinds from the capsule into a glass of water or juice or something may reduce the waiting time if that aspect of it becomes problematic for you. It's not like it takes that long to feel anything, rather it can take that long for the full intensity of effects to become apparent, which is why I advise care in redosing before a couple of hours have passed.

Funny, I would call 30 mg of oxy pretty small compares to a bunch of encapsulated ground pods. It may depend on what you're used to...pods will give lasting relief i imagine, compared to short-lived oxy.
YMMV etc - just see how you go.

 

[fizzymk]

There is really no way for anyone to give you an answer.

I use poppy seeds to make juice. I do anywhere from a pound to 2 pounds a time. A therapeutic, pain relieving dose I'd estimate at half a pound. As you see my answer is quite irrelevant to your question since we're not getting our stuff from the same source to even begin with.

Were you using the tiny little black seeds? Like they sell at grocery stores? Ive always thought about buying some of the McCormicks poppy seeds in the seasoning section to make tea with, but I never do, doesnt look like enough seeds to produce a good feeling...am I right or wrong about this? Im not sure of the size of those jars, but I know they arent 1 pound. Seems expensive to be using up to 2 lbs if these are the seeds your using, as I think each jar of McCormicks was around $5.

 

[cook]

Hey Cookie - what size capsules did you put the straw into? I guess that is relevant. And one of the issues with this is that it is impossible to tell whether you have extremely potent or 'regular' ones. That makes it even more important to start with a very low dose, even though it is sure to be very frustrating at times. Better safe than sorry.

To be honest I cannot remember if they were 0 or 00 sized, but the pod straw potency varies much more than this anyway. 2 capsules of either size is going to be safe dose for non-tolerant, it may or may not provide analgesia but its safe.

 

[ParappaTheRapper]

Did I miss something, or did you not mention extracting the morphine? Sorry I am real out of it.

For seeds, or even pods, soak/stir/shake in water and lemon juice for 30 minutes. Then strain. Make sure to drink slowly.

Important- Do several washes. It may take three for full dose.

The best thing you can do is potentiate.

Tonic Water - Contains quinine. Enzyme inhibition. Makes it last longer. Makes high cleaner and stronger.

White Grapefruit Juice- Same.

Tums- Increases duration and helps absorption.

Lopramide- Acts as an opiate itself. The above potentiators allow it cross the blood-brain barrier for pain killing/euphoria. Moreso, they fill opiate receptors in the stomach, making the poppy dose more overwhleming to your system. Increases duration and strength.

Tagamet- Enzyme inhibition. Increases strength and duration.

Valerian Root- Specifically interacts with enyzmes. Also, is a natural benzo. Takes 60 minutes to triple strength.

Capascin- Habenero Peppers/ Cayenne Pepper- Enzyme inhibition. Also, increases absorption in blood. Releases endorphins to boost euphoria. Eliminates constipation.

Be very very careful. Test low doses first and drink slowly. Poteniators will allow much smaller amounts to be much stronger for very cheap.

 

[xtcgrrrl]

I don't like the taste of poppy tea, which is why I put it into capsules (and BTW when I make the tea I drink the grounds too, it really helps, not with intensity of the feeling but more with the duration. But today I am going to try poppy tea again, just to give it a whirl. I don't have Tonic Water and can't get any today, it's the second day of Passover and it's going to be a hectic day. I do take Tagamet before the poppy. And I also take the loperamide, 6 pills (equals 12 mg.) Valerian root is something I've wanted to get my hands on for a while. I've never heard of the cayenne pepper, but I'll put some in my tea in the hopes that it might help.

BTW my typical dose of capsules of poppy pods is 10-12 capsules at one go. That keeps me sane for a good long while, so I only need to dose morning and evening.

Thanks for all the replies! Some valuable information here. Thanks again, BLers!!!!!!!!!!

 

[englishlady]

Hi Grrrrrrrrrr -- So glad you popped in and picked up your replies. Sounds like you have it under control. So are the 10 to 12 caps morning and evening helping with the pain? May I ask if it is nerve pain or bone pain? These are supposed to be the very worst pain imaginable.

Delighted that you have figured it all out and congrats to you.

All the best and do drop in again and let us know how its going.

Very best wishes

 

[xtcgrrrl]

It's nerve pain - I have 5 herniated discs, had 2 operated on Jan 2nd of this year, promptly fucked up the surgery by lifting heavy things (in my household there was some drama, they put down mothballs to repel mice, my son ate one, I spent the day in the ER with him then spent the next day moving furniture to get at all the mothballs underneath things where my son could possibly get at them and besides the air was filled with the smell and he sleeps in this room and I was worried about him breathing the fumes.) So. Now I have a SERIOUS back problem and my insurance is lapsed (temporarily...should be back any day now as it has been close to 6 weeks and they said 4-6 weeks when we went in to get it reinstated.) When the insurance comes back I'll need a new MRI and possibly more surgery. Sigh. But the sciatica is terrible and so is the back pain.

EDIT: I already use the Tagamet and Loperamide for potentiation but I will try to add the grapefruit juice and the tonic water today. Cayenne pepper I think we have here in the house, I can try that as well, just shake a bit into the tea? Valerian root I will have to go to a specialty store for.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Swallowing poppy pod grounds no matter how fine, especially 3-11 pods, is fucking hardcore... grossss

I HATED the taste of the tea, made my SO puke her guts our regularly, but after a while I got used to it and the gag reflex wasn't so bad. Still hated the taste though, but I could drink it. Maybe you could get used to the taste more or use something like lemon/lime juice to help mask it. Just a thought.

Lots of other ways to process poppy pods though. My fav was making frozen biscuits, freezing ground pods in the tea I made using other pods (old ground also saved for other method below) into basically small ice cubes and would just swallow them whole. Super easy to swallow. You'd need to swallow like 6-12 given how many poppies you wanted to use (4-10) and it wasn't bad and works really really well - plus the fiber or whatever in the fresh ground pods made you shit normally-ish! :D

Second methods, which was great for using grounds I already used to make tea or whatever, was to basically boil and broil a strong resin out of the grounds. I'd add a little fresh grounds to the end product, which was about the consistency of gum before it loses it's flavor. You could eat (swallowing pellets whole, like eating opium) or even smoking (or rather vape) it similarly to opium. I loved to mix a bit of tobacco into it and roll big ass cigarettes and that worked pretty well. Normally I'd made a batch with just the resin if I was gonna smoke it by itself. You could make tea out of the resin on the go, but it taste even worse than normal tea.

Erowid actually has some other good recipes too, although these are the only ones I've tried short of trying to eat chopped pods or straight grounds (gross, just can't do it, even with fresh pods from the garden). I used to make salads out of a little poppy straw and poppy leaves, not bad with the right dressing. I actually got kinda into it enjoy!

 

[ParappaTheRapper]

It's nerve pain - I have 5 herniated discs, had 2 operated on Jan 2nd of this year, promptly fucked up the surgery by lifting heavy things (in my household there was some drama, they put down mothballs to repel mice, my son ate one, I spent the day in the ER with him then spent the next day moving furniture to get at all the mothballs underneath things where my son could possibly get at them and besides the air was filled with the smell and he sleeps in this room and I was worried about him breathing the fumes.) So. Now I have a SERIOUS back problem and my insurance is lapsed (temporarily...should be back any day now as it has been close to 6 weeks and they said 4-6 weeks when we went in to get it reinstated.) When the insurance comes back I'll need a new MRI and possibly more surgery. Sigh. But the sciatica is terrible and so is the back pain.

EDIT: I already use the Tagamet and Loperamide for potentiation but I will try to add the grapefruit juice and the tonic water today. Cayenne pepper I think we have here in the house, I can try that as well, just shake a bit into the tea? Valerian root I will have to go to a specialty store for.

That might not taste that great. Go for it if you want though. I meant along the lines of either an extract, or putting some itself into maybe a gelcap. You can also do "cayenne pepper shots".. mix it into something and drink for nerve pain.

 

[englishlady]

Hi Grrrrl Oh boy! Sciatica is pure agony. And herniated disc pain comes a close second. But u had no choice but to move the furniture to retrieve the mothballs.

Do you really find those potentiators really work? I have had both sciatica and ruptured disc pains, but only two discs, L4, L5. It is way up there with childbirth as agony. It seems pointless to tell you to take it easy if you have a little one to take care of, not an option I guess.

I applaud you in finding something natural which helps. Hope you dont need more surgery and your insurance comes through. Take care.