Accidental Preciptated Withdrawal

[Chinese Smack]

I hadn't planned precipitated Withdrawal. I had been taking 600mg Sevredol (morphine rapid release) tablets daily in two stages. My last dose was 3:00pm and by next morning I was excperiencing mild withdrawal--lethegy, unease, etc no fireworks. By 3:00 pm a still felt in this mild withdrawal missus fireworks or any of the heavy stuff like bowl hugging vomiting etc but I felt bad enough to snort 4 mg bup and then after a short while I put an 8 mg bup under my tongue. And then the fireworks started and I had a WD show like I have not had in years. The works. Luckily I was in a 5 star hotel in China and surrounded by every comfort but when all you want is the coolness of the toilet bowl on your face and the strength to switch position and get your anus up ontop of the bowl the surroundings didn't matter. It helped that my howls and retcgings probably did not reach outside my suite or if they did they would have been ignored. After what seemed four or five hours the retching subsided and I was suddenly aware that I felt marginally better and I was able to continue in that funny half sleep and dreamy unreality of post heavy WD. By 1:00 I felt confident enough to attempt some more bups. I took another 18 mgs in all and felt well enough to take a walk round the block while room service came in. Now it is next day 11:00 22 hours later and I have snorted another 4mg bup. I hate bups but in the past they have done the trick. Why did they send me into precipitated WD even though I waited a good 24 hours.
Advice and help please

 

[ExInMil]

Hey hey,
Well, the only thing I can think of is:
A: Your metabolism slowed and the morph was still active/they were not intimidate release.
B: You go the stuff with naloxone in it.

Sorry I couldint be more help....
peace.

 

[Chinese Smack]

.
B: You go the stuff with naloxone in it.

How ? Sevredol 50g it says on the packet I cannot account for my reaction unless I didn't drop enough bup and so went inti partial WDS for a few hours before slowing coming out of it once the bups began to bind. I am hoping someone out there has so kind of exclamation. It is 3:00pm China time here Tuesday afternoon and I am now feeling human enough to use the commuter, cycle around, drink a little vodka and contemplate a kebab tonight. 72 hours since last morphine, 48 hours since I dropped those 12 bups and went into WDs. Almost human. and its sunny and I am in a five star hotel with a fantastic view. Explanations anyone?

 

[ExInMil]

I ment the bup/sub/tex had naloxone in it, not the morph....

btw, yer making it hard to feel sorry for ya while yer in a hotel in china. haha.

 

[Chinese Smack]

I ment the bup/sub/tex had naloxone in it, not the morph....

btw, yer making it hard to feel sorry for ya while yer in a hotel in china. haha.

WD is in the head and the nice hotel and sunny setting just make things a little easier. Why China? Ever tried scoring in China? forget it. Therefore when there is no goddam hope of scoring till I hit Heathrow airport in a week's time the craving don't happen, full stop. I just feel it and skin crawlingly restless. Hugging a fancy toilet is the same as hugging a filthy toilet and I have done both in my time. I come to China to go through WD but this is the worst time ever and those initial 12 hours were as bad as I have ever experienced in a great many years on/off opiate use.

 

[ExInMil]

Hey man I didint mean anything by it.

I would much rather be in China happy and motivate than w/ding and shitty.

And no I never tried scoring in China, mostly because I dont speak Mandarin, and well since I never been there.....

 

[Chinese Smack]

China is a good place for WD because you do not have the temptation to score. You can't. 5 star hotel costs £50 a night, food costs nothing not that you would be doing much eating, previously I have done fine and at least returned to UK after 10 days with my tolerance back down to manageable. I have done cold turkey and more recently using bup for rapid de-tox which in previous years has been almost painless. This time it all went wrong but no one has as yet suggested why. Daythree with 8 mg bup inside me and I have been out and about, cycling and walking and even managing a tiny bit of food. I personally loathe bups and take them purely to avoid the worst of WDs. I stop taking them as soon as I possibly can. I couple of slugs of vodka is preferable though I do not normally drink alcohol. I intend moving tomorrow and heading back to London on Friday. I have not been too successful this time though I hope that I have lost some of my tolerance. Previous years I have come off a H habit of about half a gram a day. A few months back I switched to a morphine script of 700mg a day so I came off a much bigger habit this time. H is the easiest, quickest opiate to come off. Next time I will switch to H before coming back out here.

 

[ad lib]

Hey, I'm going to move this over to "Other Drugs", as those members are more experienced in this area over there


tds > od

 

[adder]

I don't really understand why so many people are sticking to this "wait 24 hours rule" at all. Your body won't process every amount of a drug in the same time. Moreover, if you took 600mg morphine daily for some time, then it's hardly possible that after 24 hours morphine would be out of your system to cause a full-blown physical withdrawal that you could fight with buprenorphine.

The fact that you're feeling withdrawal doesn't mean that there's no morphine acting at your receptors. Let's cut this shit with "wait 24 hours", because it's growing into an urban legend type thing, and there has been more and more threads like this, so obviously "wait 24 hours" has a wrong effect. If we want to warn people, then I think we should elaborate more on a topic and not just provide some superficial facts.

The table on the right is a good starter to understand how drug levels change over time as metabolism is carried out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-life

 

[Hammilton]

The general and more effective rule is to wait until moderate to severe withdrawal sets in, that's what the drug companies say and there's good reason. If you're moderately sick, maybe just starting to get into severe stages, then you don't have enough drug in your receptors to cause precipitated withdrawal. Mild withdrawal is still mostly mental, if you're not having stomach issues, I'd wait. You really don't want to go through that again.

For oxy ir the 24 hour rule should be pretty effective for most doses, but morphine? No way, especially more than half a gram.

Scoring in China is impossible? Surely one could go to a doctor, no? Or are they real strict about opioid prescriptions? Given the whole opium wars thing and how many people were addicted it would be understandable if they were extremely opposed to them, you know?


That makes me think of the irony, you never hear anyone support the British in conversations about the opium wars, but really, they were taking the pro-liberty position. I think anyone who supports a fully legalized market should look at the situation there around those times. We don't want a quarter of our population addicted to opiates, it'd ruin the economy and the standard of living for everyone.

 

[LSDiesel]

Buprenorphine itself (with or WITHOUT naloxone) sticks to your opiate receptors and will replace any opiates currently attached to mu receptors. If you are physically dependent on morphine, the sudden shock of bupe being only a partial agonist confuses your mind and body. It often takes some time before your body adjusts to the buprenorphine.

The only situation in which bupe will make you sick, as in throw you into precipitated withdrawal is if you are currently dependent on full-agonist opiates.

Because bupe is a partial agonist, it also means that it is a partial ANTAGONIST.

Everyones different, but sometimes I have found after a heroin binge of something like.... 2 weeks of daily usage, it could take up to 2 days before the "buperenorphine kicked in".

What really was happening was that it took some time for my body to adjust to the new medication. It was used to heroin as being my "normal".

Bupe can be great for switching from full agonists, certainly better than abstinence, but often it requires some pain, either before or after the initial dosing of bupe. Sometimes you can speed up the process by taking bupe earlier, as in before 24 hours. It's a choice you have to make. Feel like shit for 3 days gradually getting worse, or feel ten times WORSE in a way more intense way for anywhere from 2-24 hours.

Sometimes I found that bupe did nothing at first. It didn't make me feel better or worse. However, if I continued to take it, I would feel better, but not until the 2nd or even 3rd day of taking bupe.

 

[Chinese Smack]

Thanks all for the advice. Previouus times with H there had been ones days discomfort taking bup and extreme listlessness followed by another day of slow recovery with hunger returning in th evening. I ceased taking dup after day four or five. Once again the difference this time was the 600 mg morphine habit which precipitated WD after 24 hours. I toughed it out for 24 hours whereas what I should have done is taken more bup. I was too sick to consult my computer but it now appears that I could have saved myself some real grief by a couple of big doses of bup.
China does have a fairly liberal frug, methodone programme but the drug scene is very underground and foreigners still tend to stick out and attract attention. It is not like in SE Asia.