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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Drug law reform - why is Australia so far behind?

Halif said:
No, I'm stick to my original sentiment. I think the fact that we're here discussing goes against the idea that Australians, all of us, are dumb as fuck. There are many of us, not just on this board, who have exactly the same frustration about the backwards nature of this country. I'd even go so far as to say that the majority of people want to see a host of changes which would this place in line with other nations.

I really do believe that it's the mainstream culture via media which is dumb as fuck, and that is a seemingly giant beast which is controlled by a disproportionately tiny number of people in power. The small minded, big powers in this country have the final say on issues, and exactly who they are would be interesting because they don't stand around waving their arms and declaring their beliefs. That's because they are actually afraid of their own beliefs, due to them being a minority perspective. It's when these people, or groups die out (and it may be that they literally have to die, by reaching the end of their lifespan, so that they can be replaced by people who are not as swayed by such old-fashioned ideas).

Just my thoughts on the matter;)
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I second this opinion, could not have put it better if I tried.
 
spacejunk said:
Or is it the final nail in the coffin?
Decentralized provision of public information has a utopian ring to it; but it could conceivably have the inverse result (if it happens at all).
Has the democratization of information had a radicalizing effect on Australia in the last ~20 years?
I don't know that it has.
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No, I think it's just had more of us Ozzie's turn to booze like a metaphorical ostrich sticking it's metaphorical head in the sand, or perhaps up it's ass. This in turn could be misconstrued as complacency. Many of us do care but feel that to change the status quo is like pushing shit up hill with a short stick. Better to look like a unassuming and average non law breaking member of society and slide into the grey area's that exist. If no one notices what your up to no one cares at least in my experience. Just my random mutterings.
 
So this thread's got me thinking.

Who are the forces of prohibition in this country?

And how can they be exposed or undermined, in order free the people of Australia from ridiculous bullshit?




bullshit#1
Police banning hemp food

COAG meeting legalising hemp as a food in Australia

Still, today, Hemp Foods Are Legal For Human Consumption everywhere except Australia & New Zealand!
It is with some sadness that the COAG committee met and did not vote on allowing hemp as a food today.
The positive is that they also did not say no. They want to review all the evidence and submissions, rather than take their own Government agencies advice again (FSANZ).
So, what does this mean for us? Not much right now. The police opposition seem to have made unsubstantiated claims based on the assumption that hemp food consumption would interfere with saliva testing swabs. It appears Australia is the only country that employs oral fluid testing despite all the evidence pointing to reliability and forensic issues. And all this whilst North America and their multiple hundreds of millions of dollar hemp foods economy realises that the medical variety (also now being reconsidered here in Australia) may actually be of benefit to some people also. Despite the superior nutritional benefits of hemp seeds omega 3, 6 and 9, lack of allergens and high quality protein content Australia & New Zealand continues to stand out amongst the world in their lack of understanding.
This year The Department of Trade and Investment awarded our company, Hemp Foods Australia with a Grant to establish a hemp food production facility. This 100% Australian Certified Organic facility will continue to produce hemp seed based products for export or not for human consumption in Australia.
So, for now let us celebrate in the understanding that it is unlikely the Police’s thoughts do not undermine the facts provided by FSANZ and health authorities to the benefits of hemp foods. Let us end this year knowing we are supporting a hemp industry that next year will continue to grow and employ many Australian’s from farmers to processors, transporters, distributors retailers – as well as providing a sustainable crop for bio-plastics, fibre, paper, building and fuelling Australia’s economy without mining our land.
While you can: buy hemp seeds, hemp oil and hemp protein *not for human consumption* in Australia and New Zeualand only. You may purchase in this country if you use for your skin, your garden or taking overseas. We will not ask you for proof as we trust you will do the right thing.
Watch this hemp blog and keep up to date with the latest hemp news.
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(I'm not sure the exact date this was posted - some time in the last days or weeks I 'spose.

Its from a NSW seller of something nutritious, delicious, absolutely inactive in a psychotropic sense - yet sold globally - *legally* as food, but in Australia and New Zealand, that same product is being sold "NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION"

(Just like on a bag of 25i-NBOMe or MDPV).

They dont sell anything drug related in any way - but I probably can't link to their site.
It's easy to find.


It would be good to know more about this "pending decision" if anyone feels like doing some research?
(Need sleep now)
 
opi8 said:
In related news, How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations
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Read that the other day. Did lol. Not surprised :\

spacejunk said:
^ I agree with a lot of Halif's above post - I just find the predominance of anti-intellectual sentiment (in individual citizens as well as the media that feeds so many of the attitudes and ideologies people cling to) a huge hinderance to Australia taking any bold steps forward (as a collective culture or a nation) or taking any leadership in terms of what other countries do.
I think the rise of flag-waving patriotism is a weak cover for the national insecurity and fear that has been thrust upon us by globalism; the fact that we really have fuck-all to be proud of - and a lot (historically) to be ashamed of.

Coming back to drugs - the macho Aussie tough guy attitude still pervades, despite a huge rise in the amount of people that have consumed empathogens, psychedelics and a range of other "mind expanding" chemicals in recent decades.

Halif, I think you are much more forgiving and optimistic on this - and I'm quite the pessimistic misanthrope - and I truly admire your perspective.
I don't mean to make stupid generalisations about a whole nation of people - but it frustrates to see Australia going from leading the way in Harm Reduction programs in the 1980s and 90s - to being an embarrassment on the world stage in many regards 20-30 years on.
Are we going backwards? Or am I asking too much of my countrymen?
It is the institutionalisation of bigotry that bothers me more than anything. The celebration of mediocrity, suspicion of progression.

If any of this crap is relevant, the next question is; how do we break out of this?
How do we grow, develop, evolve?

Trozzle; you ask me if I see in colour or black and white; then go on to mention that text doesn't express complexities without adequately articulating war you mean. I think you answered your own question.
I started this topic looking for an interesting discussion, not wisecracks - so forgive me for reading your post as a defensive side-step.
I agree that Australians are far too complacent.
Back to the bread-and-circuses; a culture of mass distraction.
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Was partly my point, though the question was rhetorical. I often have a hard time getting my intended point across through text, so was just suggesting not to read what I write as literally as it reads - the way I write shit half the time could mean anything lol; it's not like there's only 1 or 2 possible definitions to my rambles (black or white).

Did I mention I'm 25? These days that still means I could have the maturity, intelligence, or be as articulate in my communication relative to someone a decade younger :p
 
The Project on 10 ran a story the other night about New Zealands approach to RC's.....

http://tenplay.com.au/channel-ten/the-project/extra/season-5/legal-drugs-in-nz

I havnt watched it yet but they did have a poll on whether drugs such as RC's should be legal, unlike their facebook page where most people disagreed, the poll told another story with the legalise vote far in front (at the time I voted anyway).

I do believe the Australian public attitude is starting to change regarding how we look at drugs and treat addictions
 
Yes! I saw that shit on the Project and it was kind of surreal... I mean there were government approved operations bagging up a certain well known cannabinoid blend brand (NL) for legal sale. Pills of sorts, too. Legal highs that were, in fact, LEGAL!

The bit that got me twisted was the line (something like this, anyway): "This could likely pave the way for the legalisation of actual cannabis".

Now if that's not back to front and just strange.... IDK?!

There was some guy (sorry, can't remember, smart guy - must have been Kiwi:p) who invited Australian law makers to watch the situation in NZ and see what happens because they might be surprised. In other words, society isn't going to fall to pieces with a few tested cannabinoids on sale. Very interesting and innovative approach from New Zealand.
 
trozzle said:
Did I mention I'm 25? These days that still means I could have the maturity, intelligence, or be as articulate in my communication relative to someone a decade younger :p
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....huh? There are heaps of younger Bluelighters than you -
I'm not that much older myself - if you're going to blame your age for your writing skills (if that's what you're even talking about?) then I might suggest you're not as young as you think.
Many writers are around their peak of literacy in their mid-20s; I could name a few but this is way OT alrealy.

What I don't understand about this NZ thing is how they could possibly legalise something like a synthetic cannabinoid without long term test analysis?
I mean, say in 30 years, all these legal high people start dropping from lung (or other) cancer. Then what - will the govt have any legal liability? I'm assuming they are working with chems they already have data on?
Seems like they're going about the whole thing backwards - unless long term data exists on the substances in question...?
I mean....fucking cannabis is harmless (compared to most synthetic, right?)

I don't own a tv so Im not following this story beyond what I read here-and-there...but with harmless substances used since before human history, surely these would make safer, better candidates for legalisation?
Politics is fucking weird sometimes.
 
^ I suppose what I'm getting at is that we have plant drugs with no recorded deaths that have a history of use that makes 30 years seem like a drop in the ocean of time.
Just seems funny that they'd go with a substance that mimics one such plant based drug.
I have an aversion to telly, so you guys can watch it and tell me about it. Thanks :)
 
What sort of whiney hipster bullshit is that space junk? Just click the link and tell yourself for 5 minutes you are watching some grainy doco made by a not for profit leftist group.

It actually has a nice back story to the legal high scene in nz, including the fact that only 1 MP voted against the proposed laws.
 
Note to self: completely ignore Spacejunk's future posts, regardless of their subject or content. It's not with the headache.

Seriously dude...lighten. the fuck. Up.
 
trozzle said:
It wouldn't be too far fetched to suggest we need to hit rock-bottom big time in order for things to change, perhaps. Something like a near-death experience for society on the whole lol
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spacejunk said:
I think we've more than hit that point.
Human cultural evolution doesn't usually come out of dire circumstances. There are some notable exceptions, but complacent apathy isn't a good starting point.
Once the devolution begins, it's a slippery slope.
We have the declining education standards, we have the beginnings of an established police state, we have a conservatism that has been ingrained for decades. Generations.

I would argue that radical positive change is more likely to spring from inspiration than oppression in our case.
Perhaps when the print media finally chokes on it's own vitriol, we'll have a chance to reclaim the discourse and the direction this country is currently going in.
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I don't agree with this. We have hit rock bottom from the point of view of the internet warrior who is concerned with privacy, corruption, equality, environment etc yes, but from society at large not even close! Australia is in my view about as far from any kind of revolution as it gets. Average people are unlikely to revolt in the streets unless our standard of living sinks by a monumental amount. Australian's have a very high standard of living and are very comfortable. Revolution in my view springs from when the risk of revolting to their standard of living is low, because their standard of living can't get much lower anyway: Expensive / unavailable food, bleak job prospects etc. The reward in this case for revolting is hopefully a new political system which removes corruption and provides a fairer distribution of wealth. (See Ukraine and Venezuela for recent examples, the government response in both cases is violence, because what else can you do to people who have nothing to lose?)

What do you think it would take for average Joe Australian to protest? (average Joe, not activist Adam)
  • Government corruption / secrecy / spying on you 24x7 on the net and the 5 eyes jerking off to your web cam while its off? Never. What is a NSA? All hail Tone!
  • Drug policy? Certainly not. It doesn't really effect them. Can still smoke a little weed etc, not going to jail for that. Plus we must stop those awful awful meth users!
  • Environmental issues? Nope. as long as it's NIMBY, who cares right?
  • War? Maybe. After all they might know someone who knows someone in the army.
  • Employment opportunities - probably if we had 40% unemployed you might find Aussies protesting, any less and I have my doubts. Can always get the dole right.
  • Economic collapse, running out of food, energy, unable to have BBQ, beer and watch channel 7? - yes Joe will now raise a pitchfork

There will be not be an Australian revolution any time soon.
Average Joe is busy trying to climb the property ladder and worrying about who is going to win the game on the weekend.

Our drug policy will change, but we will lag behind the USA. If weed is federally legalised in the USA, I suspect we will follow, but only after a period of intense debate between conservatives who can't let go and the rest of us.
 
^ Rock bottom: politically. I'm actually not talking about revolution at all - just sociocultural evolution. I quoted some song lyrics about revolution but it is far, far from the poltical reality I'm talking about. I'm not that naive.
On this issue,we're about as backwards as it gets.
This thread is about drug law reform, not intended to be a wider Australian political rant. It might have spilled over into that, but it wasnt my original intention in starting this thread; it was more about discussion (which you've provided plenty, cheers).
I wanted to see some intelligent ideas thrown around in AusDD like we see on other parts of BL.

Of course the situation nationally could be a lot worse.
Don't worry; Abbott and co are working on it.

Busty: having another sook mate? I don't have the inclination to watch shit at your bequest.
I see you're still name-calling in the absence of a genuine contribution to make.

Trozzle: big loss; the guy who doesn't understand reading/writing as a way of getting a message across....like I said - don't like it, don't contribute. It's not about you, so maybe try not derailing the thread. Or find another abuse bandwagon, tough guy.
 
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^ ah! I get it now!

You're one of those steroid users!
No wonder you're such a touchy, aggressive fool.

Read the BLUA; when you can draw yourself away from the mirror, big boy.
 
juvenile said:
Economic collapse, running out of food, energy, unable to have BBQ, beer and watch channel 7? - yes Joe will now raise a pitchfork
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I'd like to think that a lot of Australians would load the swag and fishing line into the back of their car and hit the highways Mad Max style.
 
^You know Mad Max and sequel (not the third) were actually documentaries, right? :p
 
Decent discussion ends up turning to name calling and personal attacks. It's good to be a member of AUDD.
 
opi8 said:
Decent discussion ends up turning to name calling and personal attacks. It's good to be a member of AUDD.
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AusDD and the self- answering thread.

Why are Australians so far behind? Because they can't manage a civil discussion without turning into petulant children.

For further examples, see; Parliamentary Question Time.

Edit - mad max? That would require fuel n' shit.
In the 1930s people set up shanty towns in city Garbage dumps.
Not as quite bloke-chic.
 
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