• The Dark Side 💕 Welcome Guest 💕
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Notable Threads Urgent Hotlines
    Bereavement Mindfulness
    Suicide Support Anger Management
  • TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | paranoid android

How hard is it for a relative to gain control of your income?

nuttynutskin

nuttynutskin

Bluelighter
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
10,755
I'm wondering how easy it is for a relative to gain control of your income or finances. I receive ssi for depression/anxiety, probably bipolar. I also battle with alcoholism. Well long story short I've been drinking a bit more this month for a few reasons but I'm not hurting anyone or doing anything crazy. After not drinking for 2 or 3 days the relative I live with is threatening to try to gain control of my ssi because of my drinking. But I pay rent and am otherwise functional. I'm over 21, afaik I'm allowed to drink. Is this person's threat of seeking to gain control of my ssi frivolous? I'm beyond furious about this.
 
YEah, short of you being in hospital/completely reliant on other people to do day to day things, it's a lengthy process for them to try to gain control. They have to prove that you're not competent/neglecting children (if you have them). And chances are, if you can show up to court and argue their claims, they have no chance.
 
Thanks for the quick answers guys. That's pretty much what I thought. Usually I'm used to this person's frivolous threats when we're not getting along, but losing my SSI is one thing I'm hypervigilant about. It's my only current livelihood so probably understandable.

And yeah I have problems, but am hardly mentally incompetent. Afaik spending problems probably doesn't qualify either as most Americans suffer from that disorder. I really hate manipulative liars.
 
Thanks for the quick answers guys. That's pretty much what I thought. Usually I'm used to this person's frivolous threats when we're not getting along, but losing my SSI is one thing I'm hypervigilant about. It's my only current livelihood so probably understandable.

And yeah I have problems, but am hardly mentally incompetent. And Afaik as long as I'm paying rent, spending problems probably doesn't qualify either as most Americans suffer from that disorder. I really hate manipulative liars.
 
missmeyet? said:
They would have to be able to prove that you are not mentally competent..and it would not be a really quick process.
Click to expand...

This.

And without your prior consent, it would be doubly difficult. Normally if people are facing a tough illness and they might need to give someone else control, they will get a legal document to that effect.
 
A relative is, infact, able to take your SSI from you, however, this only can happen if they get approved as your Representative Payee. Unfortunately, that is extremely easy to do. They just have to show that you spend your SSI on alcohol.

Here's a resource on this: http://www.disabilitysecrets.com/re...bility/ssdi/payments-representative-payee.htm

Basically, they can call the SSA and rat you out and offer to take over management of your funds. In the case of alcohol, SSA will most likely grant the request. Its not a very difficult process at all.

All they have to do to get the ball rolling on this is call the number here: http://www.ssa.gov/payee/

With that said, the money is still yours, but you won't be the one deciding what its spent on anymore. Every single transaction is logged in detail. They can't use the money for themselves but they control what it gets spent on otherwise.

By the way, you might want to save yourself the headache and stop drinking. If they follow through with their threat and call SSA and get the ball rolling on this, you will likely end up with a payee, whether it be them or someone that SSA appoints (you can also have a friend take over, you do still have a say in it although SSA has the final say in the matter). If this happens, in order to get your payments back to yourself you have to prove that you're now capable of managing your own finances. In doing that, you can shoot yourself in the foot and lose your benefits because they consider your improvement to be great enough that you can go to work.
 
Now I feel way better. WTF would I do if I wanted to move? If it were to happen can you appeal it? I really DO NOT want this person in charge of MY FUCKING MONEY!!!
 
That seems to be correct upon further investigation. The following is an excerpt that says legally a friend or family member can report that you are not capable of handling due to drinking and ask that a representative payee be appointed..

Also, if that person were to report you it doesnt mean they would get to be the one to get control of your money..yoou would still get to pick who got control of it..and you could tell them you do not want it to be them....

" A Social Security recipient who has been notified that a representative payee will be needed can propose his or her own payee and go with that individual to their local Social Security office. The payee can be a friend, relative, or family member. The proposed payee cannot have felony convictions and must have a means of support, which can either be a form of employment or even a monthly benefit, such as a Social Security retirement benefit or a Social Security disability benefit. If you don't propose a payee, Social Security may choose a payee from an organization that employs payees. "

Here it talks about how they can decide you need a payee:

"The inability to manage payments must be determined before a payee can be appointed. Footnote Reference 8 Information indicating that the beneficiary is legally incompetent or is mentally or physically incapable of managing payments will be considered by SSA when determining a beneficiary’s need for payee services. This information may be in the form of court determinations of legal incompetency, medical evidence indicating a physician's opinion as to the competency to manage benefits payments, or statements of relatives, friends, etc., who have observed the beneficiary's inabilities to manage benefits or other financial matters."


From:

http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/edi/publications/PPBriefs/PP_16.txt
 
Last edited:
legally incompetent or is mentally or physically incapable of managing payments
Click to expand...

To me that says, if you have food, pay rent and utilities with no troubles and aren't in crippling debt then it doesn't matter how much booze you buy.

That's bullshit if they determine your capability by the amount you drink (I'm thinking of high function alcoholics here)
 
Black Rabbit of Inlè said:
To me that says, if you have food, pay rent and utilities with no troubles and aren't in crippling debt then it doesn't matter how much booze you buy.

That's bullshit if they determine your capability by the amount you drink (I'm thinking of high function alcoholics here)
Click to expand...

Alcoholism is specifically counted as being unable to take care of yourself.

http://www.ssa.gov/payee/NewGuide/toc.htm#Beneficiary_Drug_Alcohol

A beneficiary with a drug or alcohol addiction (DAA) may have difficulty handling their own funds in a responsible manner. As in the case of every other beneficiary, we will determine, on a case-by-case basis, if they need a payee.

If we decide a beneficiary with a drug or alcohol addiction is incapable of managing their funds, we will select a payee for them. In these cases, we often select as payee an organization or agency experienced in serving individuals with addictions since these are often in the best position to know these individuals’ special needs.
Click to expand...

In almost all cases, SSA will take a friend/family member's word that the person is incapable of taking care of themselves due to substance abuse. On top of that, if you have ever been diagnosed as bipolar, it becomes easier because you are very likely to self medicate if you have bipolar disorder.

As you can see, they tend to force you to go with a management organization for your payee if you have a substance abuse disorder, probably because a friend or family member could be an enabler quite easily.
 
The just sounds like it's open to all kinds of abuse, like when families get in fights.

It's a very different story here and the people making the complaints have to either come up with proof, or allow you to undergo assessment before any decision is made.
 
Black Rabbit of Inlè said:
The just sounds like it's open to all kinds of abuse, like when families get in fights.
Click to expand...

No shit... That's pretty much the case here and the stupid thing is I was totally sober when I got in the last argument with the douche bag I live with. I really feel like I'm being blackmailed here. I'm no angel but I really don't spend that much of my check on booze. Like maybe 1/7th if that. I pay them rent and take care of myself. I find it pretty absurd that ss would just take someone's word on whether you're an alcoholic or not even if it is a relative. Besides the potential for blackmail, it's so subjective who the hell is to say? I mean just because I'm on ssi means I shouldn't have a life? Either way I'm going to try not to do anything to jeopardize my control over my finances. Feeling extremely blackmailed and pissed tho. I hope said family member gets hit by a meteor. In the meantime I think it's time to try to get my shit together and move out.
 
I mean just because I'm on ssi means I shouldn't have a life?
Click to expand...

Actually, this is exactly what SSI is for. Its to give you a means to get by while you work on getting better and prepare to enter or re-enter the workforce. It is in no way intended to be a way for you to live your life how you wish which is why they stopped giving disability to people whose only problem was substance abuse back in the early 90s. It is not and has never been a program designed to let you live a carefree life and do as you please.

Even SSDI, which you actually have to have enough work credits to get, is regulated in much the same way. They're making me fight tooth and nail for the money I'm due to get. Luckily for me I stopped drinking and smoking both on 9/17 and I have documentation showing that or they could throw my disability claim out just for that. Its ridiculous but at the same time, its a program that so many people like to abuse which makes it harder for legitimate claims to go through.
 
Black Rabbit of Inlè said:
To me that says, if you have food, pay rent and utilities with no troubles and aren't in crippling debt then it doesn't matter how much booze you buy.

That's bullshit if they determine your capability by the amount you drink (I'm thinking of high function alcoholics here)
Click to expand...

I agree...and the idea that they can simply base it on a family or friends statement is absurd.
 
How can they even prove that you used the money to buy alcohol? And there is no drug test for alcohol either. There has to be a way to prevent unfair manipulation, otherwise anyone could rat you out and start receiving your money.
 
Foreigner said:
How can they even prove that you used the money to buy alcohol? And there is no drug test for alcohol either. There has to be a way to prevent unfair manipulation, otherwise anyone could rat you out and start receiving your money.
Click to expand...

What do you mean there is no drug test for alcohol? There most certainly is. Its called an ethyl glucuronide test. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethyl_glucuronide

Its actually one of the most sensitive drug tests that exists.

Outside of that, the way that the Social Security Administration views drug and alcohol use is that you're disabled, you're supposed to be trying to recover so that you can re-enter the work force, and drugs and alcohol hinder that recovery. The goal of Social Security is to get better so that you can re-enter the workforce and become a productive member of society again. If they have someone raise doubt as to whether or not you are abusing the system and using your disability to promote a lifestyle that will keep you disabled, you can guarantee they will pass your benefits on to be managed by someone else.

This is no different from what long term disability insurance companies do when they invade your private life and use that to determine your benefit eligibility. I lost my LTD benefit eligibility from Comcast because of a picture I posted on my Myspace where I was out drinking for my birthday. Their view is that if you're healthy enough to be out drinking, you're healthy enough to work and SS maintains that same view.
 
^ From your link:

Wikipedia said:
The U.S. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration has cautioned that the test is "scientifically unsupportable as the sole basis for legal or disciplinary action" because the highly sensitive tests "are not able to distinguish between alcohol absorbed into the body from exposure to many common commercial and household products containing alcohol or from the actual consumption of alcohol
Click to expand...

We know what CAN happen, I'm just wondering what their standard of evidence is to redirect payments?
 
Foreigner said:
^ From your link:



We know what CAN happen, I'm just wondering what their standard of evidence is to redirect payments?
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that I disagree with you but I had to do those EtG tests when I was on probation and I was held legally responsible for them. SAMHSA can caution all they want, they have no legal power to enforce anything one way or the other.

Anyway, I don't know anyone who has had their benefits put into someone else's care for alcoholism. With that said, I don't know many people on SSI or SSDI (in fact, my roommate is one of two people that I know and he's 49 and the other one is in the late mid stages of AIDS) so I can't tell you how often it happens. I have been cautioned in the past that it can happen, however, and this was by a therapist that I was seeing who has seen it happen where a family member or a friend calls Social Security and tells them you're spending it on drugs or alcohol and you end up having a third party manage your benefits from that point.

Its always best to err on the side of caution in these matters, wouldn't you think? I mean the easiest solution is to stop drinking. I guess it comes down to what is more important to you - having the freedom to drink now but losing the ability to manage your own funds later or losing your freedom to drink for the time being but managing your own finances.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top