How Can I Help Best-Friend through This?

[RedLeader]

This problem concerns my best friend. She has an 11 year old son. She and her ex-husband (who is now remarried and has a comfortable suburban life) have shared-parenting over her son, alternating weeks. Anyway, she didn't have her son this past weekend, but received a phone call from him. He told his mother that he needed to talk with both of his parents at the same time about something serious. So she insisted that it happen right then, and she went over to her ex's home for the conversation. And her son basically said that he had been thinking about things for months now, and his wishes are to live permanently with his father. He said that he would be willing to visit his mother once every week or two, but that he wants to live with his father, his step-mother and his step-sister in their little suburban paradise. They are also gearing up to move out-of-state in a year or so.

When I first heard this all, I assumed that the father had planted some ideas in the child's mind, as I just don't see an 11 year old coming to this decision like this on his own, or at least not wording it how he did. When I was around this age, my mother conditioned my little sister and I to not like our father and by our teenage years, she successfully got sole custody by convincing us to argue on her side. And I just think that deep down, this might be what is going on. I know that this moment was when my relationship with my father first went sour, and fifteen years later, it's still just as bad. I can definitely see how this kind of thing destroys a relationship between a parent and child.

Anyway, the girl was in a very abusive relationship for the past four years, up to one year ago. It climaxed with her being put in hospital in serious condition after he beat her up, and she's now facing an uphill battle in court against him over this (I guess the cops were called and the State wants him to go down for this, but his parents bought him a nice attorney that is trying to break my friend down). But I guess the years of the relationship had a negative impact on her son, and he used this as one of the reasons why he wants things to change. "Mommy doesn't know how to pick men." Of course his father was quick to back this up, I am sure.

But she has been single for the past year, is going to therapy/counselling and trying her best to live more responsibly for her son. She's doing very well, I always tell her how proud I am that she is committed to change.

This also means that child-support is going to stop, and very soon she's going to be facing some really big financial problems. She does not make a lot of money at all. She told me that she has no clue how she's going to figure out how to double her income now, when she cannot even go to work this week because she's in bed crying and shaking. Her current job is demanding and she cannot show emotion at work. She says that without seeing her son on a regular basis, she fears that she's going to fall back into drinking, drugs, being with bad men, and so on. I've known her for 6-7 years now and I've always said that the thing I most respect about her is how good of a parent she is. I spoke with her yesterday and she sounded horrible. She said that it was finally hitting her, that the most precious thing in her life was being taken away from her, and that she didn't know how she was going to continue forward.

Anyway, I've tried telling her that she needs to be grateful that she had her son during those hard times, as she was defining her will to continue forward through helping him grow up and have a good life, and that if he wasn't in her life at that time, she may not have broken free from the abuse, been able to continue working, and so on. And I've hinted at trying to accept things for what they are to not suffer more, but I don't want to push any type of psychological or spiritual theories on her when she just needs comfort. And I have been trying to make her laugh, to try and stimulate her imagination, to remind her that she is a strong person and that this is not her fault. And so on.

When she went through the abuse and the hospitalisation, a lot of her male friends tried to "white knight" her afterword, promising to take care of her and then....well, you know. And this messed her up even more, making her paranoid and cynical about people wanting to help. And while she knows that I am not like this, I don't want to get too eager in trying to be there for her and have it trigger bad memories for her of other men trying to manipulate her in the aftermath of personal tragedy.

So I'd like to know what I can do to help her in such a situation. Unfortunately, I don't live in the same city as she does, and I don't have any money/resources to help her in that way. But this absolutely kills me seeing this happening to her, and I've seen her fall apart after less-severe events, and it gets ugly. She tends to end up with terrible men and terrible alcoholism immediately after such events, and I just cannot see another man come along and potentially (physically) hurt her. And yet I don't want to be "controlling" by trying to tell her how to handle her (own) life right now. It's just a very unfortunate situation, especially knowing how it panned out for me and my parents.

What can I do to help her? Has anyone ever gone through similar? What should I not do?

 

[AcidRAEn]

You will be surprised how much a child can pick up on. When I was growing up and my parents started their divorce, I knew immediately that I wanted to live with my father, and he never resorted to talking bad about my mother to convince me of anything. I knew she was a bad person on my own. Now, it does not sound like your friend is a bad person by any means, but it does sound like she makes some bad decisions. I really hope you do not take offense to what I am about to say. I truly hope your friend did not have her son when she was assaulted by this other man, and if the son wasn't around please disregard the following.
I used to be friends with a girl (woman..whatever) who had a son. She was always bringing a new guy around every couple of months and the majority of them were not nice people. As uncomfortable as I was about the situation then I didn't say anything because I didn't feel it was my place and as I had no children of my own I felt it was not my place to judge. However, I do have a child now and I can say that what this particular woman was doing was not fair to the child. The boy would grow attached to these men, he would think of them as father-figures...only to have them ripped out of his life, or to witness them attacking or yelling at his mother. This is not a good environment for a child.

Whether or not the father has pressured the child into this decision (and I hope that is not the case because children should never EVER be used as pawn pieces in some sort of strategic game against an ex) it sounds like that environment might be best for that child right now. It doesn't seem that he has any grounds to deny her any sort of visitations...and maybe she could view this time away from her child to figure out why she keeps placing herself in these possibly dangerous situations...and by extension..placing her child into dangerous situations. Our children learn by example and I fear that if the boy continued to live with her he would develop a very skewed perception of the acceptable ways to treat a woman. If she doesn't respect herself enough to stay away from these bad men, he may not grow to respect women himself..and the cycle just keeps going. Again, I don't think the woman you have described is doing any of this on purpose..I watched a very strong friend of mine endure terrible abuse for years and I know these men can be very manipulative and fool even the most cautious of women. I can't imagine losing my son, but if I were ever putting him in a situation could be detrimental to his health or emotional well-being I hope that someone in a more stable environment could care for him until I could do what I needed to change that behavior. She should look at this as a chance to heal herself FOR her son...because you cannot help others until you help yourself. Again, I hope none of this offends you. Just be there for her in any capacity that you can. Offer her encouragement and don't let her wallow in self-pity because that will not help her or her son. I hope things work out..and I hope that this made sense and didn't offend.

 

[RedLeader]

I will concede to you that she has made some bad choices in her past, and perhaps during the worst of them, an argument could be made for the child being removed from the situation. With that said, I am trying not to judge her for her past (I mean, we all have one, right?) and just focus on the present. She's been out of the abusive situation for a year now, and she is going to therapy/counselling and doing everything she can to better herself. She's choosing not to get close to any men at all right now for the better of her son. She acknowledges and accepts this problem of hers and put her foot down after the hospitalisation that she was going to do what it took to change for her son. From an adult perspective, she's doing everything right in the present. At the same time, she is only human, and I worry that if she loses immediate contact with her son, the setback will be enough to break her present resolve and that she will resort back to her past behaviour. Perhaps I didn't make it clear in the original post that she hasn't made bad mistakes regarding men or alcohol/drugs in a good year now.

Again, it is her life and her choices at the end of the day. I just don't want to see her fall apart emotionally and give her ex-husband concrete reasons to isolate her son even more from her. If that makes sense.

And thanks or your reply. I'm not easily offended, so don't worry there. I want an objective assessment so that I can manage myself as best as possible as the situation affects me. Perhaps I need to just not do anything at all here except remind her that she has my phone number and what not. Easier said than done, as it is my best friend. But if that's what I need to do, I'll listen to the wise people here.

I should also reinforce the point that I am not trying to build a case for her not to lose her child. I am just trying to be as supportive as I can for her if it does in fact happen.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Hmmmm this one is very difficult. Knowing how it feels to be threatened with losing a child and how it completely screws your head up I can empathise. Not knowing the people myself I can't really say much or give much advice but it does seem strange for an 11 year old to say "Mummy picks bad men," especially if she has been single for a year. Why would the child suddenly mention this? Now if she had recently got with a new fella then I could understand the child be worried, having memories of the past situation but to suddenly mention that when the woman is not with a man, to me, appears strange.
Unfortunately I am from the UK and, assuming you're from the States? am unsure of any advice facilities that she can visit. Do you not have benefits in that country for low earnings / unemployment? If so, how do people survive? If she is ill, is there not disability / sickness benefit that she is able to claim? child care allowance?

I'm sorry I can't help further. I wish her luck. My first initial reaction was if the boy really wants to live with his father than his wishes should come first but if what you are saying is true then no but I really don't know what to suggest. Sorry

I do agree with Acid in hoping that the child was not present when she was assaulted. I would be heartbroken if I put my child in that situation. Not judging, just saying how I'd feel as a mother of an innocent child who only ever deserves to be warm, safe and protected.

EDIT: No offence, Acid, just read your last paragraph and you are suggesting that this woman should lose her child because she has chosen bad men IN THE PAST? Not being funny here but Red has already said that she has not had any bad men in A YEAR, is in counselling and TRYING HER DAMNED best for her son. What the hell else does she have to do? So every mother who makes some bad mistakes must lose their child - even though they are TRYING hard to redeem themselves and STAY AWAY from men for the sake of their child? While I agree with some of the points that you have made, I do not agree with this last paragraph of yours. I, myself, am a single mother, have not necessarily chosen the best men in the past but my child is safe, warm, cared for, happy. Why can't that be the case for this child? Why would the child be best with his father. Please don't think that I am going at you or trying to offend you in any way as I am not, just trying to illustrate some point in response to your last paragraph.

Evey xxxx

 

[T. Calderone]

This is really hard Redleader, see I was that kid many years ago who decided to live with my dad and step-family. But it didn't last very long because I found the grass was not greener over there. It's not hard for a child to be manipulated, even in a subtle manner. Your friend can still see him on weekends and have visitations right? So all is not lost and she needn't look at this as a defeat. He's only 11, not even a teenager yet. Chances are, the boy will grow to realize how much he really loves his mother and though she made some bad choices, that doesn't make her a bad person.

In a way I also found myself in a similar situation with my own son but he was 15. Only he didn't want to leave, I was in a precarious position where he had behavioral problems and I couldn't control him. It was best for him to go live with his father and I'd like to think it will make him a stronger person and me too. Still it hurts like hell and I miss him so much but it's not forever.

Nobody can break that bond your friend has with her son. Of course she's heartbroken but that doesn't mean she has to relapse or go back into bad relationships. She's going to find out how tough she can really be, focus on herself and decide where she wants to go from here. Sink or swim situation and I believe instinct will force her to swim. I'm glad she's in counseling and would suggest she continue this. The only thing you can do is listen when she needs to talk.

 

[RedLeader]

Your friend can still see him on weekends and have visitations right?

The very early plans seem to suggest one 2-3 hour visitation per week. And the father intends to move across country with the child in 1-2 years.

She's just (understandably) taking it very personally, considering it completely due to her shortcomings and past mistakes that her child is choosing to abandon her. This is filling with her guilt and the feeling that she is a terrible mother.

EDIT: No offence, Acid, just read your last paragraph and you are suggesting that this woman should lose her child because she has chosen bad men IN THE PAST? Not being funny here but Red has already said that she has not had any bad men in A YEAR, is in counselling and TRYING HER DAMNED best for her son.

To be fair, AcidRAEn made that point before I edited my first post to include what I also wrote in my first reply, that it had in fact been a year. I realised that I wasn't clear about this in the original post. So I think the chronology here may have threw you off. I apologise for the confusion, you would have had no way to really know.

As to whether the child was around during the abuse, I don't know the gritty details. He wasn't around during the event that led to her hospital stay. But I'm sure that he saw her crying a lot and appearing very weak. And he has seen them arguel. I don't know if he ever actually saw the ex put his hands on her.

 

[T. Calderone]

I wonder what the original custody agreement stipulates because it may have to be amended. If he wants to move out of state, obviously her visitation will be cut down and she needs an attorney to work that out. If she's in the U.S. she can apply for legal aid. Sounds like she's going to need this since now there's the issue of child support too.

 

[RedLeader]

The issue of the father of the child wanting to move out-of-state in a few years is what makes me think that this is manipulation and not the will of the child. That he's structuring it to ensure the swiftest, easiest route to full custody. But he swears that even though he had discussed a future move with the child, this decision in the meantime was completely from the kid.

She's already on legal aid for the open case against the guy who beat her. I am going to suggest that she speak with that attorney about how to obtain an attorney for this as well. I just hope that the first case does not work against the second.

Thank you for your replies, T.Calderone.

 

[T. Calderone]

I'm glad to help! I've known friends over the years who got screwed on child support and laws vary by state. It's good she can get legal aid lawyer to ensure her rights are protected. Her ex may indeed be trying to pull a fast one and she's got to be prepared for that.

 

[neversickanymore]

What is the legal age a child can pick this. Sorry but kids dont run the world and this seems like it was undoubtedly influenced by the new couple.. since their is a custody order in place let them take it to court.

In most states they wont have a chance in hell unless it is shown that the mother no longer has much contact with the kid. which may be what they are trying to do.

 

[herbavore]

I am going to side with the kid here.

I work with kids and have for over 30 years. Your experience of what you were like is about as scientific a study as mine going on what I was like--there is just no way to generalize an 11 year old--neither his capabilities in decision-making nor in his ability to articulate them. Kids come in all shapes and sizes mentally at any given age. Its one of the difficulties of teaching them in herds (ie public schools)--each kid is the same age in years, but emotionally and intellectually you have at least a five year range all in one class.One thing I do know is that when kids are in homes where abuse is taking place, horrendous damage is occurring no matter how stoic they are in hiding it. That kid made a very clear statement and no matter how hard it is on his mom, she is going to have to listen to that. 11-13 is when male children that have typically lived with mom commonly decide they want to live with Dad. Before that age, mom is usually the one they choose to live with. It may have a lot more to do with gender than anything about lifestyle, class or anything personal about the mom.

I understand how devastating this would be for your friend--it would be for any parent. Ironically it is usually the Dads that lose their kids like this, not moms.I had a co-worker whose son made this same decision at 12 and one of the things I really admired was the way she put her kid first--trying to get into his mind, not taking it as a personal failure (though of course she struggled with that a lot) and just letting him know that she was always there to support him, listen to his feelings and fight for what she thought was best for him. He ended up living with her again at 16 and they are still very close today (he's in his 30's!).

The bottom line, and the most important thing in the world is that both parents put their own egos and problems aside and work out the best situation for the child. There are two scenarios here--one is now and one is some mythical future when they may or may not move out of state. Help your friend deal with the one now. The one in the future is not even a reality and that will be determined by the courts I'm sure. The best way for you to help and support your friend is to encourage her not to use this as an excuse to use, to buoy her spirits with support and calming talk that focuses on the present, not the future, and simply do what you are doing--being a good friend. Feeding into the us-against-them polemic will just make everything worse for everyone.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Apologies to Acid I never realised that the first post had been changed.

Red I won't comment further as I feel my comments will be bias n you need neutral, constructive comments in a situation like this. It is an extremely difficult situation n I hope ut works out the best way possible. The child needs to come first n it doesn't necessarily mean that this girl has to relapse, as TC already said, she still needs to be there for her son whether he lives with her or not. NSA has also got a point. Really sorry I can't help you but it's best I
Stay out if this one
All the best,

Evey xxxx

PS: I hope this lady realises what an amazing friend you are, thinking of her like this x

 

[RedLeader]

The best way for you to help and support your friend is to encourage her not to use this as an excuse to use, to buoy her spirits with support and calming talk that focuses on the present, not the future, and simply do what you are doing--being a good friend. Feeding into the us-against-them polemic will just make everything worse for everyone.

Thank you for replying to this. You've made some interesting points. One of her bad habits is that she can fall into spite/revenge, so I've been doing my best to rationally talk her through any silly ideas that come up, as well as just giving her an ear into which she can vent. I understand how hard it is to not want to tap into the dark feelings that one has at a time like this and show strength by fighting back.

The thing that she is struggling with perhaps most is guilt. I know that you've written a lot in TDS about parental guilt. I try and tell her that this isn't her fault and that guilt is only going to make things worse for her internally, but this is met with "how is this not my fault? I put my son through bad situations in the past and now he has decided he has had enough. It's absolutely my fault." And I get where she's coming from because I take on a lot of guilt for putting my family through time times while in active addiction, and not really buy into the "it's not your fault, you have an addiction" line. I just try not to think about it too much, but to understand the mistakes and learn from them. But I don't want to say to her that she needs to accept responsibility for past behaviour and consequences, because them I'm going to come across like a huge jerk.

Working through guilt is, hands-down, the most difficult thing for me in recovery. So it's perhaps understandable that I don't really know what to say to her here. In her shoes, I would probably collapse under the guilt.

 

[herbavore]

The thing that she is struggling with perhaps most is guilt. I know that you've written a lot in TDS about parental guilt. I try and tell her that this isn't her fault and that guilt is only going to make things worse for her internally, but this is met with "how is this not my fault? I put my son through bad situations in the past and now he has decided he has had enough. It's absolutely my fault." And I get where she's coming from because I take on a lot of guilt for putting my family through time times while in active addiction, and not really buy into the "it's not your fault, you have an addiction" line. I just try not to think about it too much, but to understand the mistakes and learn from them. But I don't want to say to her that she needs to accept responsibility for past behaviour and consequences, because them I'm going to come across like a huge jerk.

Working through guilt is, hands-down, the most difficult thing for me in recovery. So it's perhaps understandable that I don't really know what to say to her here. In her shoes, I would probably collapse under the guilt.

Ah yes, parental guilt. I don't think it is ever possible to completely come to terms with it. Somehow, Bluelight going black has triggered my own guilt to go viral in my mind so I am particularly attuned to it right now. Last year I went to a therapist that was himself a practicing Buddhist. Fortunately for the two of us we both have a sense of humor because other wise it would have made for some really boringly repetitive talks: he would give me the perspective of letting go of my idea that I should have been in control of everything in Caleb's life (his reactions) and I would come in each week with the same arguments as to why I should be put in front of the firing squad because I should have controlled his environment, his reactions etc. I don't even rationally believe that! But emotionally is another story.

Is there a Buddhist community where you live? After Caleb died I went to a place near me called Land of the Medicine Buddha. It is a community of Tibetan Buddhists. The monks and nuns there were incredibly compassionate and calming. They talked to me for free any time I came. They had specific classes and groups for people struggling with addiction and anxiety, they had free group meditations and when not in meditation themselves would simply sit and listen if that is what I needed. Maybe your friend could benefit from this kind of help? I am not Buddhist but I would recommend to anyone suffering from their own emotions, the philosophy and practices it teaches.

Your friend doesn't realize it right now but whatever emotional growth she can make in this time of complete crisis in her life will be unbelievably powerful. Working through guilt is a process that takes place on two levels--rational and emotional. My struggle is in letting go of my own self-punishing thoughts. In my case, nothing will bring my son back to life and I have the guilt of even being alive to contend with. I have already learned a lot from listening to these voices in my head and I expect to learn more before I join Caleb in whatever comes next. I can't say that the struggle has been without benefit to both my understanding of myself and of my fellow human beings--that is never a bad thing!