mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
50g Jesus. 
Have you tapered down, or just stopping 'cold turkey' ?
Have you tapered down, or just stopping 'cold turkey' ?
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The EADD Kratom Thread v1. Chew those leaves? Bleugh!
- Thread starter WayneRooney
- Start date
Mental Kenny
Bluelighter
I never mentioned yoghurt, don't know where you got that from. Chew the kratom itself, put it in your mouth and chew, chew chew.
Keep on chewing for a bit
When you start getting kratom saliva, don't swallow it right away but try to keep on chewing what you can, when the saliva becomes a lot, start squashing it around your mouth as if it were Listerine(mouthwash). Do that for as long as you can, I have actually counted I can do it for almost ten minutes, when you feel like you're about to gag, swallow.
Repeat the process with two or three fat spoonfulls on emty stomach and I swear you'll feel the kratom like you never felt it before.
Farmers in southeast Asia chew on the leaves while working the fields, the same as indigenous people of South America with coca leaves and Yemeni men with khat. The whole point is chewing, those herbs are absorbed by the mucose in your mouth, they're not supposed to be just eaten.
When I tried khat the first time, the Somali who sold it to me was very adamant that I should chew, he said absolutely don't swallow right away or you won't feel it, it's the same with kratom.
Hell even shrooms come up so much stronger when you chew the hell out of them.
Chewing it's an ROA of its own
Keep on chewing for a bit
When you start getting kratom saliva, don't swallow it right away but try to keep on chewing what you can, when the saliva becomes a lot, start squashing it around your mouth as if it were Listerine(mouthwash). Do that for as long as you can, I have actually counted I can do it for almost ten minutes, when you feel like you're about to gag, swallow.
Repeat the process with two or three fat spoonfulls on emty stomach and I swear you'll feel the kratom like you never felt it before.
Farmers in southeast Asia chew on the leaves while working the fields, the same as indigenous people of South America with coca leaves and Yemeni men with khat. The whole point is chewing, those herbs are absorbed by the mucose in your mouth, they're not supposed to be just eaten.
When I tried khat the first time, the Somali who sold it to me was very adamant that I should chew, he said absolutely don't swallow right away or you won't feel it, it's the same with kratom.
Hell even shrooms come up so much stronger when you chew the hell out of them.
Chewing it's an ROA of its own
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amanitadine
Bluelighter
50g Jesus.
Have you tapered down, or just stopping 'cold turkey' ?
Cold turkey. Can't taper anything for shit. Well, I tapered suboxone, but that was kinda easy. I CT'd the 2 years and some change habit back in October, made it until the end of December... the lasting depression and anxiety got to me....very unique to Kratom, quite different than straight opioid PAWS....I was fighting it pretty decent, exercising (!) and the like, but the holidays sucked the wind outta my sails and I went back on it. It's been off and on since then...hard to get a grip really! Day 2 today....blegghhh..
I'll add that I tried to get if off it January of 2013, and picked up a monster etizolam habit in the process, eventually 60 mg a day. Tapered down to 6, got stuck, switched over to a supervised diazepam taper at 60 mg....down to 15 mg daily now. And then this October when I kicked I threw phenibut into the mix, which unleashed a shitstorm due to years of caining GHB/GBL and then a prescribed dose of baclofen....so, now I'm juggling GABA-A and B, and still fighting the damn motark. Bah.
I always throw out my stash when I kick....makes it easier. But also makes the 45 min drive to the nearest head shop for overpriced shit a real bitch when I fold. Ahh, druqs....
Your incorrigible drug pig (TM),
Amanitadine
cheers!
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
I guess in a bizzare way it helps that im allready taking etizolam, it means i havent really got any concerns about that habit getting any worse, as its allready quite far gone. I dare say it will make getting off opis psychologically easier, just blot everything out for a while, after a week or 2 after any physical wds i can start reducing etiz. That is the vague plan, its just a case of putting it into action when i make up my mind to do it.
I noticed you picked bad times of year to attempt to quit as did i, early december first bupe quit attempt and fail, i could blame that on the time of year being all wrong. Second bupe quit attempt was January. I might have actually succeeeded were it not for discovering that i had enough kratom for 1 or 2 very nice doses, i had forgotten that i had it, having previously dismissed it as a substance that didnt work, but still kept it for a rainy day non the less.
Do you work ? In some ways i think it would be easier to quit if you have a job, i mean once the very worst initial physical part is over, it then seems to become much more of a mental thing, and if you can get yourself onto a relatively even keel then having a job would help. Being bored and having long days to fill doesnt help very much.
Im making excuses again, but it would be better if the weather wasnt so fucking awful, i could easily get out for increasingly long walks and stuff like that to rebuild up by stamina and resilience. I could still do them in the shit weather of course, but then they just tend to become something to endure, rather than gaining any sort of pleasure from them. I'll try to take Billy Connollly's advice, 'there is no such thing as bad weather, just a bad choice of clothes'. To a large extent that is true, i have all the wet and cold weather clothing i could need, i just need to fucking get on with it.
If it helps atall, you sound very together, and seem to have the energy to put intelligent posts together, condsidering you are on day 2 of quitting a monster on and off habit. Im not sure if Id be like that on day 2 of quit, I'll posiibly be like one of the zombies on The Walking Dead. On my second bupe quit attempt, i gave up smoking 10 days before, i think it helped with the physical side of things, i was fitter and more resilient, and the physical things barely touched me. Mind you i did taper extremely low, from 0.5, to 0.4, to 0.2 to 0.1 mg of bupe before jumping. The physical symptoms were barely noticeable second time around.
Its weird that the dependency /addiction profile of kratom seems to be played down, though it is recognised. The harvesters in borneo and thailand presumably get to chew on as much as they need. Ive not fully read the wiki article for a while, but it doesnt seem to be causing a major problem. Unlike the poppy pods of afghansistan which seems to be a far more viscious and wilder beast to tame. Im not going to let my kratom habit escalate, the more it goes up, the further it will have to some down.
The wiki article seems to condsider kratom to be very benign. It contains tales of like long users. Ironically, Thailand tried to ban it, as it reduced the tax revenues they collected from opium. But as the plant is native to the country it was deemed ineffective to try to ban it, or destroy it all, especially in the south of the country. From what im gatheriing from EADD Kratom is not as benign as Wiki makes out, and that article could do with some editing.
I noticed you picked bad times of year to attempt to quit as did i, early december first bupe quit attempt and fail, i could blame that on the time of year being all wrong. Second bupe quit attempt was January. I might have actually succeeeded were it not for discovering that i had enough kratom for 1 or 2 very nice doses, i had forgotten that i had it, having previously dismissed it as a substance that didnt work, but still kept it for a rainy day non the less.
Do you work ? In some ways i think it would be easier to quit if you have a job, i mean once the very worst initial physical part is over, it then seems to become much more of a mental thing, and if you can get yourself onto a relatively even keel then having a job would help. Being bored and having long days to fill doesnt help very much.
Im making excuses again, but it would be better if the weather wasnt so fucking awful, i could easily get out for increasingly long walks and stuff like that to rebuild up by stamina and resilience. I could still do them in the shit weather of course, but then they just tend to become something to endure, rather than gaining any sort of pleasure from them. I'll try to take Billy Connollly's advice, 'there is no such thing as bad weather, just a bad choice of clothes'. To a large extent that is true, i have all the wet and cold weather clothing i could need, i just need to fucking get on with it.
If it helps atall, you sound very together, and seem to have the energy to put intelligent posts together, condsidering you are on day 2 of quitting a monster on and off habit. Im not sure if Id be like that on day 2 of quit, I'll posiibly be like one of the zombies on The Walking Dead. On my second bupe quit attempt, i gave up smoking 10 days before, i think it helped with the physical side of things, i was fitter and more resilient, and the physical things barely touched me. Mind you i did taper extremely low, from 0.5, to 0.4, to 0.2 to 0.1 mg of bupe before jumping. The physical symptoms were barely noticeable second time around.
Its weird that the dependency /addiction profile of kratom seems to be played down, though it is recognised. The harvesters in borneo and thailand presumably get to chew on as much as they need. Ive not fully read the wiki article for a while, but it doesnt seem to be causing a major problem. Unlike the poppy pods of afghansistan which seems to be a far more viscious and wilder beast to tame. Im not going to let my kratom habit escalate, the more it goes up, the further it will have to some down.
The wiki article seems to condsider kratom to be very benign. It contains tales of like long users. Ironically, Thailand tried to ban it, as it reduced the tax revenues they collected from opium. But as the plant is native to the country it was deemed ineffective to try to ban it, or destroy it all, especially in the south of the country. From what im gatheriing from EADD Kratom is not as benign as Wiki makes out, and that article could do with some editing.
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Mental Kenny
Bluelighter
I wish I hadn't read that, this has the to be dumbest comment I have ever seen on Bluelight.
Kratom is a benign and harmless plant, it's irresponsible users such as ourselves who are the problem, editing the article will only lead to one possible outcome...prohibition. Mate seriously I hope you were joking when you posted that.
Kratom is an extremely valuable istrument for people trying to stop doing potentially deadly opiates, or getting their habits under control, legal and inexpensive. Prohibition will take away the ability of responsible people to use this medicine, now you are suggesting that just because some dickheads, including myself, can't help themselves and get hooked on it, resonsible user should suffer prohibition and persecution?
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
I was just noting my impressions as it's about the the only time on wiki that ive known an article to be not entirely correct, or perhaps it would be more accuarate to say, it is missing some part of the picture. Im not gonna actively or seriosuly gonna suggest they even slightly change the tone of the article, for the reasons you mention. Prohibition isnt the answer even if it does turn out to cause more problems than people reaslised.
We just dont know ho many people are finding it usefull and beneficial to their lives, and how many people are finding it causes them a problem. Until good valid reserch has been done on this, and the extents to which kratom is either a benefit to humanity or problem to humanity becomes more clear the site cannot in any fairness be accuaretly updated.
You seem to have a way with words kenny, or is just me ? I have certainly seen dumber comments than that on Bluelight. From where im standing it seems perefectly reasonable to me.
We just dont know ho many people are finding it usefull and beneficial to their lives, and how many people are finding it causes them a problem. Until good valid reserch has been done on this, and the extents to which kratom is either a benefit to humanity or problem to humanity becomes more clear the site cannot in any fairness be accuaretly updated.
You seem to have a way with words kenny, or is just me ? I have certainly seen dumber comments than that on Bluelight. From where im standing it seems perefectly reasonable to me.
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amanitadine
Bluelighter
MDB - Yeah I have a job, but at this time of the year it is a fuck off job, but it keeps me busy. I farm.....cows, pigs, sheep, egg layers and broiler chickens, and goats (mmmm).....and a shit ton of vegetables in the spring-fall. Spring-fall= huge amount of work. Right now is basically feeding the animals, and Im building a greenhouse, planning for spring. It is still work, everyday, but I can half ass it when needed...ie when kicking over and over again. I farm in an intensive organic permaculture style approach....lots of work! but that is why I choose these horrid months to kick, to try and get ready before the shit hits the fan. Maybe this year will be the year heheh. Mrs Amanitadine is also off sitting on beaches in Central America for the winter, drinking, sunning, and reading, so I figured mebbee I could use this time to get off this stuff for good.
Yeah the addiction profile is certainly downplayed.....for a few reasons. Some people don't have many issues coming off of it. You'll find the most vehement support for how benign it is on the various kratom forums.....because they never come off of it! But searching around other places you'll see my experience is not unique. But more importantly there are many who don't want to see this plant banned....as it really is a better maintenance tool for many than subs or 'done, and also helps people off of more nasty opioids....so there is a deliberate attempt to keep its public persona friendly and benign, in case the idiots writing the misinformed hysterical stories in the states ever use google, which obviously they don't! There has been a spate of ridiculous articles in the states, and pending misinformed legislation in 6 states, lumping mitragynine and 7-OH with cannabinoids or cathinones, and listing them as synthetic. Derp. Two states have already banned said compounds.
re: the wiki article....it has been re-written a few times by an association dedicated to keeping kratom legal.....while I agree with this approach per se, this association irks me as it the mouthpiece for a big indonesian vendor, and has popularized the tagline " kratom is a relative of coffee, and is no more addictive".....this is obviously bollocks and leads many people to view it as more benign than it is, and develop serious habits. But if someone only uses wiki to investigate a new substance, well, they deserve what they get. Caveat emptor...
I mean really, kratom withdrawals aren't debilitating really (well the first few days are, without help, for me at least) but just so insidious and long lasting. YMMV.
A big bonus of kratom is that it is legal and cheap...so you don't have the life destroying shit that prohibition brings. It also has a ceiling effect, and minimal respiratory depression...no one has EVER died from using it alone.
cheers
Yeah the addiction profile is certainly downplayed.....for a few reasons. Some people don't have many issues coming off of it. You'll find the most vehement support for how benign it is on the various kratom forums.....because they never come off of it! But searching around other places you'll see my experience is not unique. But more importantly there are many who don't want to see this plant banned....as it really is a better maintenance tool for many than subs or 'done, and also helps people off of more nasty opioids....so there is a deliberate attempt to keep its public persona friendly and benign, in case the idiots writing the misinformed hysterical stories in the states ever use google, which obviously they don't! There has been a spate of ridiculous articles in the states, and pending misinformed legislation in 6 states, lumping mitragynine and 7-OH with cannabinoids or cathinones, and listing them as synthetic. Derp. Two states have already banned said compounds.
re: the wiki article....it has been re-written a few times by an association dedicated to keeping kratom legal.....while I agree with this approach per se, this association irks me as it the mouthpiece for a big indonesian vendor, and has popularized the tagline " kratom is a relative of coffee, and is no more addictive".....this is obviously bollocks and leads many people to view it as more benign than it is, and develop serious habits. But if someone only uses wiki to investigate a new substance, well, they deserve what they get. Caveat emptor...
I mean really, kratom withdrawals aren't debilitating really (well the first few days are, without help, for me at least) but just so insidious and long lasting. YMMV.
A big bonus of kratom is that it is legal and cheap...so you don't have the life destroying shit that prohibition brings. It also has a ceiling effect, and minimal respiratory depression...no one has EVER died from using it alone.
cheers
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
better maintenance than subs ?
What about what you were telling me about how it hits loads of recptors and brain fuctions, all the SNRI and adrenergeric properties as well as the opiod ones that you were telling me about ? I dont know if bupe has any of this excess baggage, it certainly perked me up though, so seems to work extremely effectively as an anti-depressant.
What about what you were telling me about how it hits loads of recptors and brain fuctions, all the SNRI and adrenergeric properties as well as the opiod ones that you were telling me about ? I dont know if bupe has any of this excess baggage, it certainly perked me up though, so seems to work extremely effectively as an anti-depressant.
amanitadine
Bluelighter
Yeah I found subs to be a real soul killer over time....that kappa antagonism a good antidepressant makes however. But Kratom also works as a fab antidep.....it just sucks coming off of it over long term high dose use. But so do subs. Kratom is fantastic if used for like a month post subs, tops. Gets you over the acutes.....it just becomes its own messy beast over the months or years. Kratom though doesn't have SNRI properties, no direct effect on serotonin appreciably, downstream sure....but does have an effect on NE via its AA receptor action. Also add NMDA antagonism, calcium channel blocking, etc...you've got a hydra eventually. Treat Kratom with respect and it is great...don't, and well, you'll have that damned hydra nipping at you....
Day 3 and ready to throw in the towel again heheh. See? We'll see wha happens....
Note to self: don't take somewhat high doses of loperamide and then eat a ridiculously spicy homemade vindaloo.......not fun down there!
Day 3 and ready to throw in the towel again heheh. See? We'll see wha happens....
Note to self: don't take somewhat high doses of loperamide and then eat a ridiculously spicy homemade vindaloo.......not fun down there!
knock
Bluelighter
"corynanthine has also been shown to possess some activity at serotonin receptors"
Maybe not very significant though.
It does contain a surprisingly large number of active chemicals.
Maybe not very significant though.
It does contain a surprisingly large number of active chemicals.
amanitadine
Bluelighter
Is coryanthine found in M. speciosa Knock? I know it is in some other Mitragyna species and Rauwolfia.......coryantheidine is found in Kratom, it's the dominant antagonist, and the agonists are all variations on this skeleton......coryanthine is related structurally , and I wouldn't be surprised if it was in Kratom, I just don't recall such offhand....
knock
Bluelighter
No it is not, I was mistaken. Wikipedia redirects coryantheidine to coryanthine. I wasn't paying attention to what I was clicking on and what I actually got, which were two different things.
That should probably be fixed to save idiots like me from spreading disinformation!
edit: deletion of redirect now in the pipeline.
That should probably be fixed to save idiots like me from spreading disinformation!
edit: deletion of redirect now in the pipeline.
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amanitadine
Bluelighter
Goddamn wiki.....who writes this stuff? :D
Bastion of willpower that I am, I threw in the towel yet again this morning, day 4. I think trudging through knee deep snow in -20 weather, breaking ice out of the cow troughs on 4 hours of shoddy sleep mighta been the straw that broke the back. Maybe. Oh and the crushing anxiety and depression could have had something to do with it too
So drove to the shop, got sorted, and then ordered a ten day supply of better stuff.....ten days to see me through building this greenhouse, and whatever other justifications I had. That will leave 12 days until Mrs Amanitadine returns in early March from her gallivanting around for me to try, try, try again. But this weeks' tasks suddenly seem much more doable....cleaning out the angora rabbit barn? No problem. Packaging and sorting the 900kg of beef I am picking up from the slaughterhouse tomorrow? Easy peasy. Fucking off and sleeping in the hayloft? Check. Stopping Kratom again in ten days? Ehhh....well, I'll do my best.
Im actually seriously considering doing an Ibogaine session to address this. Not because Kratom is insurmountable, it isn't, but Ibo has always fascinated me, never tried it, and it really seems to peel back the layers of all sorts of addictions. And me I've got all sorts! Plus the novelty and it's crazy complex MOA just intrigue the shit outta me and have for years....that's a big one I have an obligation to try...
Ironically a rogue Ibogaine provider I know (it is schedule 1 here in the states) says that in her limited experience Ibogaine isn't as effective for Kratom as it is for heroin, methadone, suboxone, etc. I'd wager that is because of kratoms vast diddling of various receptors. Ibogaine/noribogaine do you have affinity for the Mu, delta, and kappa receptors, but also exhibit NMDA antagonism, hitting various nicotinic receptors, potent SSRI, etc etc....they light up your receptors like a Christmas tree! And as it is quite successful for other addictions like cocaine, alcohol, and even porn and gambling I think it is worth a shot. Not some overpriced clinic but at home with a sitter....I've seen success stories online for Kratom dependance..
This provider also said however that her few experiences with using Ibogaine for Kratom were limited to UEI and FST addicts, which are the heroins of the Kratom world. Worse actually....the acutes off of a heavy bonafide FST (the real stuff comes from one source) habit really are worse than heroin. And it is a mystery as to what exactly is in "Full Spectrum Tincture".....it certainly isn't full spectrum as HPLC showed no mitragynine....but further attempts at analysis showed that whatever was in there was coryantheidine based, due to the fragments....I'm guessing it is a mix of mitragynine oxindoles, the pseudoindoxyl (33x the ki of morphine, at least in vitro) and 7-OH mitragynine. I've tried isolated 7-OH and it certainly lacks the punch of FST or UEI....and it has a ki of 17x that of morphine in vitro, but sure doesn't feel that way in vivo...at all. It is believed to be the primary opioid in Kratom, but is less than 1% of the total alkaloid content of Kratom, whereas mitragynine is like 60-70%. I've tried 98% pure mitragynine, and it wasn't that great either....oh Kratom you are a complex mistress! Competitive inhibition, the cornucopia of all the alkaloids, Wiccan Magyck, who the fuck knows...
(end babble, off to go slog in the shit of some animal....)
Bastion of willpower that I am, I threw in the towel yet again this morning, day 4. I think trudging through knee deep snow in -20 weather, breaking ice out of the cow troughs on 4 hours of shoddy sleep mighta been the straw that broke the back. Maybe. Oh and the crushing anxiety and depression could have had something to do with it too
So drove to the shop, got sorted, and then ordered a ten day supply of better stuff.....ten days to see me through building this greenhouse, and whatever other justifications I had. That will leave 12 days until Mrs Amanitadine returns in early March from her gallivanting around for me to try, try, try again. But this weeks' tasks suddenly seem much more doable....cleaning out the angora rabbit barn? No problem. Packaging and sorting the 900kg of beef I am picking up from the slaughterhouse tomorrow? Easy peasy. Fucking off and sleeping in the hayloft? Check. Stopping Kratom again in ten days? Ehhh....well, I'll do my best.Im actually seriously considering doing an Ibogaine session to address this. Not because Kratom is insurmountable, it isn't, but Ibo has always fascinated me, never tried it, and it really seems to peel back the layers of all sorts of addictions. And me I've got all sorts! Plus the novelty and it's crazy complex MOA just intrigue the shit outta me and have for years....that's a big one I have an obligation to try...
Ironically a rogue Ibogaine provider I know (it is schedule 1 here in the states) says that in her limited experience Ibogaine isn't as effective for Kratom as it is for heroin, methadone, suboxone, etc. I'd wager that is because of kratoms vast diddling of various receptors. Ibogaine/noribogaine do you have affinity for the Mu, delta, and kappa receptors, but also exhibit NMDA antagonism, hitting various nicotinic receptors, potent SSRI, etc etc....they light up your receptors like a Christmas tree! And as it is quite successful for other addictions like cocaine, alcohol, and even porn and gambling I think it is worth a shot. Not some overpriced clinic but at home with a sitter....I've seen success stories online for Kratom dependance..
This provider also said however that her few experiences with using Ibogaine for Kratom were limited to UEI and FST addicts, which are the heroins of the Kratom world. Worse actually....the acutes off of a heavy bonafide FST (the real stuff comes from one source) habit really are worse than heroin. And it is a mystery as to what exactly is in "Full Spectrum Tincture".....it certainly isn't full spectrum as HPLC showed no mitragynine....but further attempts at analysis showed that whatever was in there was coryantheidine based, due to the fragments....I'm guessing it is a mix of mitragynine oxindoles, the pseudoindoxyl (33x the ki of morphine, at least in vitro) and 7-OH mitragynine. I've tried isolated 7-OH and it certainly lacks the punch of FST or UEI....and it has a ki of 17x that of morphine in vitro, but sure doesn't feel that way in vivo...at all. It is believed to be the primary opioid in Kratom, but is less than 1% of the total alkaloid content of Kratom, whereas mitragynine is like 60-70%. I've tried 98% pure mitragynine, and it wasn't that great either....oh Kratom you are a complex mistress! Competitive inhibition, the cornucopia of all the alkaloids, Wiccan Magyck, who the fuck knows...
(end babble, off to go slog in the shit of some animal....)
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
sorry to hear you have slipped. I'm gonna be trying a new (for me) perspective and try quitting just for the sake of proving to myself that i can do it. I feel that this is a fundamental thing, and is all about self belief, discipline, and trying to get out of the mindset of an addict. It seems these things kind of brainwash you into continuing to take them, and you can loose your perspective (judging by some of the feedback i have received, my own insight into the thing is totally awry, i normally have decent self-insight) it can be very hard to try to brain wash yourself back in the other direction, that being addicted isnt where i want to be, and the long term prognosis of such a thing is not good.
I'll be taking it day by day, to start with, and think about longer time frames afterwards. I believe that if any one of us struggling to get off opis, succeeds in quitting and STAYING quit without relapsing, it could help others, in a kind of 'if he can do it then so can i' way, and give them some more belief, confidence and imputus to do it and succeed..
I'll be taking it day by day, to start with, and think about longer time frames afterwards. I believe that if any one of us struggling to get off opis, succeeds in quitting and STAYING quit without relapsing, it could help others, in a kind of 'if he can do it then so can i' way, and give them some more belief, confidence and imputus to do it and succeed..
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Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Indeed. 
Best of luck!
Best of luck!
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
cheers Sam !
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
I ran out of kratom yesterday evening. I'd grown pretty fond of that glow, believe me!
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
oh i certainly do, especially as you were using red vein borneo, the glowiest strain i have tried.
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Just ordered some 'PL Red'. Apparently better than Red Borneo, although it's also 'red' and 'from Borneo' and it's the exact same supplier as last time, so it may just be a slightly stronger version of the same strain.
Hoping it arrives tomorrow! Bet it doesn't.![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
Hoping it arrives tomorrow! Bet it doesn't.
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
Just been having a bit of a gander at the opiphile forum. There's a whole subforum dedicated to Kratom. and there's 12 pages of threads in it, some of it makes interesting reading. There are so many different conconctions available, some mega 'condensed' super strains by the sounds of it. There's a lot of people with a lot of knowledge there but also some people that seem completely clueless, even to me. One guy was spending $46,000 a year on it, others just seem to be not clued up in the least, and are doing things like trying to use poppy pods and bupe to get off kratom. I have only seen one mention of the youghurt method, and loads of people are struggling to get the tea down without heaving. I dunno if it was cos my opi tolerance was high when i last made a tea out of it, a couple of years ago, but it just didnt seem to do anything that way. One poor person felt so depressed ever since getting addicted and trying to quit she was still depressed 6 months after quitting. She decided to sod it, and has now been using solidly for another 3 years, and she'd rather accept a kraom addiction than feellike that, it sounds like theres some chemical imbalance in her brain or something. All these people would get better advice on BL thats for sure.
Predictably my use has rapidly spiralled. Im not even counting how much im taking any more. I think its around about a month, maybe just under, or just over that ive been taking it. The tales of w/d experiences are extremely polarised, some people say its no worse than giving up coffee, others (usually those that have been taking heavy long term super strain doses straight after coming off stronger opis) find it as bad as full blown opi w/ds.
I need to stop taking it very soon, like tomorrow. It's allways tomorrow, and i allways have an excuse, like last night i didnt sleep a wink so need it to get me through the day today But there cant be any more excuses after today. I doubt that the physical w/ds will be very severe with just 1 months useage, allthough i started taking it before i had psychologically adjusted to quitting bupe, so there may be some issues there. As ever though, i have my etizolam, that will help so much with the psycholgical things. If i get a headfull of negative/paranoid/ obssesing over trivial things i know that etiz will stop all that shit.
I need to start stabilising my etiz dose, which is all over the place since kratom, and then start properly tapering down. If it goes to plan it should finish mid-summer. I dunno yet if I'll stop alltogether, I'll probably give it a try and see how dooable it feels. One thing is for certain though that i want to be drastically reducing my dose. No more of this 20mg + 4 sleeping pills business. I want to be right down to ~2mg, and see how things go from there. I dunno if i could then get a legitimate diazepam prescription then at that point, im not overly optimistic about that, they are clamping down on it more and more, it's definately all about how present your symptoms rather than showing signs of "drug seeking behaviour". Even then im not sure what chance I'll have. I took the name of the Dr who offered me urine tests which would have resulted in a legitimate bupe script, and I'll try and get an appointment with her, as she does seem to have some degree of sympathy and empathy for drug users, which none of the other Drs that i met had. The timing was all wrong though, as that was when i felt i was finally ready to quit it. If i didnt find that lost and forgotten tub of kratom in my house i think its quite likely i might have held out, and be about to celebrate one month clean.
Predictably my use has rapidly spiralled. Im not even counting how much im taking any more. I think its around about a month, maybe just under, or just over that ive been taking it. The tales of w/d experiences are extremely polarised, some people say its no worse than giving up coffee, others (usually those that have been taking heavy long term super strain doses straight after coming off stronger opis) find it as bad as full blown opi w/ds.
I need to stop taking it very soon, like tomorrow. It's allways tomorrow, and i allways have an excuse, like last night i didnt sleep a wink so need it to get me through the day today But there cant be any more excuses after today. I doubt that the physical w/ds will be very severe with just 1 months useage, allthough i started taking it before i had psychologically adjusted to quitting bupe, so there may be some issues there. As ever though, i have my etizolam, that will help so much with the psycholgical things. If i get a headfull of negative/paranoid/ obssesing over trivial things i know that etiz will stop all that shit.
I need to start stabilising my etiz dose, which is all over the place since kratom, and then start properly tapering down. If it goes to plan it should finish mid-summer. I dunno yet if I'll stop alltogether, I'll probably give it a try and see how dooable it feels. One thing is for certain though that i want to be drastically reducing my dose. No more of this 20mg + 4 sleeping pills business. I want to be right down to ~2mg, and see how things go from there. I dunno if i could then get a legitimate diazepam prescription then at that point, im not overly optimistic about that, they are clamping down on it more and more, it's definately all about how present your symptoms rather than showing signs of "drug seeking behaviour". Even then im not sure what chance I'll have. I took the name of the Dr who offered me urine tests which would have resulted in a legitimate bupe script, and I'll try and get an appointment with her, as she does seem to have some degree of sympathy and empathy for drug users, which none of the other Drs that i met had. The timing was all wrong though, as that was when i felt i was finally ready to quit it. If i didnt find that lost and forgotten tub of kratom in my house i think its quite likely i might have held out, and be about to celebrate one month clean.
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