TDS Damage-Venous

deltakappamu

Bluelighter
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Apr 19, 2013
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I could tell you my adventures, but there's no use
SO let me begin by saying I am fairly certain this thread is in the wrong spot, but I mulled it over for a while before posting, and I just could not find a great fit. My apologies in advance to the mods for probably having to move it.

Annnnnnnyway.....I know there has been a lot of talk about the damage done by long term iv drug usage, but I just need to share my experience and hear feed back from anyone who has similar issues. A little background: My first DOC was IV cocaine (both powder and crack broken down in lemon J or vinegar,) which of course is HELL on the veins, not only from the actual stuff you're putting in them, but due to the frequency of injecting. After a few years of IV strictly IV coke, I began using heroin (and back then it was tar.) Anyway, I don't need to get into all that stuff per say, other than the fact that I stopped using drugs intravenously in 2003, due to not being able to access any longer. I had used up every available vein and the collateral circulation veins that had formed from that damage. I am saying that I literally have nothing-my neck veins even quit on me. Toward the end I began using the smallest superficial veins in palms of my hands and fingertips. These veins are not meant for injecting (obvi) and you can imagine the damage I caused. There is literally not a vein on my body that could be reached that was left untouched.

I was very sick in my addiction and did not think of, nor care about the ramifications of these actions. I just assumed I would be a junkie for life, and that is what I did all day everyday and thought I would never do anything else. Anyway, lets get to the reason of my post. It has been since 2003 since I Have injected IV.. I had to switch over to IM from 2003-2009, then stayed clean for two years, then started IM'ing again. I know that many former IV drug abusers are hard sticks when it comes to an IV start or drawing blood in a medical setting, but to say that for myself is an understatement. I had to have surgery a few months ago, and I was 2 hours late because the nurses could not get an IV started on me. They ended up having to have an anesthesiologist do it, and he had to use an ultrasound to find my veins. He had great difficulty even with the ultrasound machine. He ended up having to use an extra long catheter and spent 20 minutes digging around and that is with the help of the ultrasound machine. Finally he got an IV started and I had my surgery. I was in the hospital 5 days and they had to get blood work on me and no one could get it. They tried every 6 hours for the 5 days and I ended up being discharged without getting the bloodworm drawn.

This brings me to today...I had to have blood work done and I work in medicine, so I had co workers try to draw me. No one could get me. We even got an order to have it drawn out of my foot, and still nothing. I was sent to a different facility where several people attempted me. 14 sticks later, and nothing, so they sent me up to this special team of people, and after an hour they could not get it either. I was there from 7:30am until noon getting stuck, and still no blood was drawn. I never had the best veins in the world before I began IV drugs, but they weren't that bad either. Now it is practically impossible for anyone to access me. I kept hearing from medical professionals over the years that it would get better, but it has not.

My question is this: is there anyone else that has this issue? I am not referring to those of you that are hard sticks because you have damaged your veins, I am asking if there is anyone out there that literally cannot be accessed? I am starting to wonder if there is some sort of underlying condition here.. I am fully aware that what I was using caused damage to my veins, but this is unusual to not be able to be accessed..like ever. I have tried doing research on this stuff but there isn't a whole lot. I am wondering if I should consider seeing a vein specialist. I do not want my veins "back" so I can do more drugs, I plan to be clean.. but merely for health reasons. I hate to think of being in an accident, god forbid, and the paramedics wasting time trying to get an IV start in my AC's when they should just skip straight to inserting something like a central line. As I get older, I start to worry, like if I get a chronic illness..what will I do? I will have to have a medi-port put in or something.. ughhhh.


Thanks for reading.. I am eager to hear any responses.
 
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That's fucked up tbh, I've never heard of anyone having veins that bad. Perhaps your body has evolved and you no longer require veins in order to function? :\

If doctors and medical professionals can't find any veins no matter what they try... maybe you got an underlying cardiovascular condition or something?
For example, if I put my arm up into the air the veins on my hand seem to constrict and disappear into my hand. Shit, I'd be worried if my whole body was like that
 
Hey delta,

That really sounds like hell--both before your surgery and today trying to draw blood. I do not have any information on this but I was wondering if any of the medical people involved suggested going to a vein specialist. The fact that it takes hours to get a needle in a vein puts your life at risk if you were to need an IV in an emergency situation and so I would think they would have been fairly alarmed and given you a referral.

I hope that you get some good responses from people that may have been through something similar. Congratulations--huge ones--on your sobriety and your commitment to it. That could not have been an easy habit to break.

The thread is fine in TDS. If for some reason you don't get a lot of response here I will ask the OD mods if they think it would do better there.

<3

P.S. I went in and broke up the text into paragraphs--more people will read it if it comes in smaller bites, I've found.;)
 
Hey guys thanks for the responses and thank you for editing herbavore :)


Since I cannot be honest about my situation in my field, I can't really be like "Hey, heres the real deal on my veins - what should I do?" But I do know they have like a laser and vein center and I was thinking of setting myself up an appointment. It is so very perplexing. I hope I get more responses too.. it really is a crappy situation, but I also find it interesting so I wanna know more!
 
oh yeah.

I've had the ultrasound multiple times. when I was in a car accident, they had to put a line in my femoral (better than my neck...). I was supposed to have ECT twice, but both times it was called off because no one could get a line in. I haven't had a lithium level in a year because the last time it was tried, i was poked no less than 32 times, and they still couldn't get it... it goes on. (I can get it, tho - - but the planets have to align, etc.)
 
Being a hard core coke IV x addict myself this is not uncommon.. I'm usually strait up with them and just ask to do my own draw.. this is granted almost 90% of the time unless it in the er.. also if they go in at the wrong angle I just call them on it as i know what works and what doesn't. i also will not let them try at the ones they generally think as i know they are so covered in scar tissue that the attempt will just bounce off. if they are insistent on them doing it then I hold the vein in place so the attempt will be successful. you just hold it in between you thumb and fore finger. but the best way for them to hit is to follow the vessels down to where it has hidden itself at a place where we haven't caused the scarring.

The best way to avoid all the problems is to lift weights in you triceps and wrists the day before you go. The needed blood flow to repair the tissue due to working out will either make some of the veins we have collapsed reappear, or it will show ones not even you knew were there.

This is also one of the best ways to rehabilitate your veins;)
 
they also have this amazing thing which is a computer that takes an image of your vein and then projects the image onto you skin right were the vein is.. it show where veins that lie father under the surface are and also vessel are much more complex then people think there a thousands of places where the can block themselves and divert blood to other places.. like little dams.. this light tell if the dams to these places are shut or open wich makes all the difference when trying to draw.

Here is video.. may be triggering

 
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^ WOW that fucking thing is awesome.

I have seen something similar during my clinical rotation in ICU but that thing is cutting edge.

I don't want to find veins to bang em tho.. I am just obsessed with finding out the exact cause and so on.

It should also be noted that I also injected into my collateral circulatory veins.. unknowing at the time what they actually were, and the importance of NOT doing that.
 
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that. is. so. fucking. cool. i want that. NOW

edit - wait, tho, how does it work? I mean, how does it take the original image of your veins?
 
what i would guess is that it uses an invisible portion of the Electromagnetic radiation spectrum to obtain the data and then a computer generates the picture which is broadcast back down via a laser. just a guess though. If you need to get a draw done you can call around and sya you are a real hard draw and absolutely needs this to figure out where they have it.
 
Yes...though good luck finding somewhere that actually has one of those...they cost between 5 and 10 thousand bucks and very few places have em...maybe if you have a nice university hospital nearby...even the $500 vein lights arent very common in hospitals.

Here is a link to their site..it says over 3000 facilities have got one..so maybe they are becoming more commonplace and i just work in shitty facilities!

http://www.accuvein.com/

" Hemoglobin in the blood absorbs infrared light. When the device is held above the skin, veins appear noticeably different than the surrounding tissue. The vasculature shows up clearly on the skin’s surface, aiding in vein location to collect a blood sample or administer IV medications."

I thought this was interesting...site shows how to make one of these that works same way for only $50!!

http://m.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-an-affordable-Vein-Finder-for-use-d/

OP..you could make one (or have someone do it for you) and take it with you when you know you might have to have an IV or a blood draw!
 
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the tech is cool as hell, but the insurance impossibility/prohibitive treatment cost kinda kills the buzz. Still, I'm supposed to get back surgery sometime in the hazy future, and something like this could literally make that a reality instead of a missed opportunity. I know it's probably retarded, but I'm going to research how one gets near this kind of technology and what's involved.
 
the tech is cool as hell, but the insurance impossibility/prohibitive treatment cost kinda kills the buzz. Still, I'm supposed to get back surgery sometime in the hazy future, and something like this could literally make that a reality instead of a missed opportunity. I know it's probably retarded, but I'm going to research how one gets near this kind of technology and what's involved.

Did you look at the link i had where one can be made (that works pretty good!) For around $50?
 
I'm not totally sure how you would address this. Even localized vein collapse can be impossible to reverse. The suction of the needle and constant sticking makes the vein walls stick together, and then combined with inflammation they stay stuck. Sometimes scar tissue moves in making it even more fickle. The body adapts by increasing the smaller vein networks, which you can't access for needling, but it maintains bodily functions.

I've used castor oil successfully to break down scar tissue and restore old flow pathways in people who were about to get surgery to debride old scars (especially around the spine), but it's usually local and it takes up to 3 months for things to be fully resolved. I don't see how you could treat your whole body. I'm also not sure if the body will re-establish the old pathways, since apparently it just makes new smaller ones whenever a vein collapses and it might continue to defer to those anyway.

I've asked my network of medicine people what they think about this. If anything useful comes up I'll let you know...
 
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