Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v17.0 + v18.0

[FlawedByDesign]

^Are we sure it was a true "overdose" with respiratory depression? That would be unusual, especially for someone with a tolerance who was in withdrawal....

I suppose I misuse the word overdose from time to time. I consider an experience to be an overdose anytime when the negative effects out weigh the positives to the point where it looks like the user may be in danger/require medical attention

I think he said the guy who was in withdrawal sold it to somebody else, someone without an opiate tolerance.

He may have a small tolerance but is in no way dependent(shoots 1-2 bags of fire once or twice a week). Apparently he took the shoot, puked his guts out, fell into an extremely deep sleep, and would only wake up to dry heave. If it was anything other than bupe I would've kicked his door down and hit him with a shot of my narcan. I'm just annoyed because the guy I origianlly gave it to told the dude several times that you only need a small piece when banging, I guess he just had to learn the hard way. Sorry for the rant, this shit just really stressed me out. So with the ceiling effect and lack of respitory depression, is it possible for an adult to die from bupe by itself?

 

[BlueHues]

^It's possible, but it's very rare....However, in combination with anything else such as alcohol or a BZD, it becomes much more likely!

 

[RTrain]

ok i just started on subutex. 36 hours off iv heroin, iv morphine and iv methadone.

doctors reckons 4mg will be enough as 40mg methadone would just about hold me.

took 8mgx2 yesterday and 8mg this morning. havent been feeling sick im sure once my mind adjusts to a partial agonist ill feel fine. i plan to do 6mg tomorrow and stabilise on 4mg for a week before tapering down to 2.

i still had aches and pains in my legs and general malease so i decided an experiment. i smoked 200mg of herpin base and i felt most of the effects. i certainly dont feel like the mild WD i felt before.

i though this high a dose would block a smoke of heroin??

how long before i feel 100% on the subs alone, providing i abstain from full agaonists for a while?

my plan is to lower tolerance to 2mg/day subutex and take a day off every 2-3 weeks and enjoy a few speedballs.

i cant afford a daily habit, its not healty, i want to start being productive again and believe subutex is the key to this.

any advice on taking short breaks from.subs to play with heroin and then going back on them?
if i take a super small dose like 0.5mg before i start shooting heroin can i dose my subs earlier without going into precipitated withdrawals?

thanks in advance.

The general consensus is the ceiling effect for Subs is around 30 mg of methadone, but things vary way too much form person to person to have a very definitive idea. Also are you talking 40 mg methadone IV? It seems methadone has a quite the variable oral bio availability, but average is around 65%, so if it is 40 mg IV then you would be looking at more like 60 mg oral, which is twice what the ceiling of Bupe can match. That means it doesn't matter if the doc gives you 4 or 40 mg, you still won't mask all the withdrawal. Most likely you'll be hurting for a couple days, but it won't be horrific and each day gets better.

I suppose I misuse the word overdose from time to time. I consider an experience to be an overdose anytime when the negative effects out weigh the positives to the point where it looks like the user may be in danger/require medical attention

That is not misusing the word overdose. That is actually using it correctly. To only think an overdose means the person would have died without intervention is misusing the word overdose. An overdose can simply be some old person who accidentally took their BP meds twice in one dosing period, technically that is an overdose.

 

[brutus]

^ Exactly, an overdose is anything that could possibly cause your life to be in danger, but there are exceptions.

 

[Tryptamite]

The general consensus is the ceiling effect for Subs is around 30 mg of methadone, but things vary way too much form person to person to have a very definitive idea. Also are you talking 40 mg methadone IV? It seems methadone has a quite the variable oral bio availability, but average is iaround 65%, so if it is 40 mg IV then you would be looking at more like 60 mg oral, which is twice what the ceiling of Bupe can match. That means it doesn't matter if the doc gives you 4 or 40 mg, you still won't mask all the withdrawal. Most likely you'll be hurting for a couple days, but it won't be horrific and each day gets better.
.

No i just ived my last methadon capsule because i thought it would decrease half life that way and id be ready to start my subutex sooner.

what is this ceiling dose? 16mg, 24, 32?

i was expecting to feel a bit shitty for a. few days switching from full to partial.

once i get down to 2mg/day could i take 0.5mg one morning go shoot some dope FOR ONE DAY in the afternoon and get back on the subs with little or no discomfort at 2mg tthe following day?

should keeping .5mg in my system allow me to dose earlier while avoiding PWDs?

 

[FlawedByDesign]

^For me the ceiling dose was 16mgs but I think most people consider it to be 24mgs.

 

[RTrain]

^For opiate agonist effects the ceiling dose is no more than 8 mg. The maximum dose worth taking because of the blocking effect is something in the 16-24 range. They determine that as the maximum necessary dose because after that you have no more opiate receptors for the bupe to stimulate(or should I say prevent from being stimulated). But after a certain dose (dependent upon the individual) you won't get any added "high" from bupe. The point where it stops stimulating receptors and just blocks them being stimulated, that is the ceiling.

Listen to the majority of people who have used extensively on this forum and have also researched it. Taking doses in the 16-24 range is pointless. Its basically just a waste, causes more side effects and makes tapering down once you stabilize more difficult. The only benefit to that high of a dose is it prevents relapse because the blockade is so strong you won't be able to get high of your DOC for a few days. Which is of course the reason doctors will want to lock you up on a high dose like that, they think its saving your life (eh, maybe it is) and they don't want you relapsing, whether for financial or moral reasons.

 

[Ziggy stardust]

^For opiate agonist effects the ceiling dose is no more than 8 mg. The maximum dose worth taking because of the blocking effect is something in the 16-24 range. They determine that as the maximum necessary dose because after that you have no more opiate receptors for the bupe to stimulate(or should I say prevent from being stimulated). But after a certain dose (dependent upon the individual) you won't get any added "high" from bupe. The point where it stops stimulating receptors and just blocks them being stimulated, that is the ceiling.

Listen to the majority of people who have used extensively on this forum and have also researched it. Taking doses in the 16-24 range is pointless. Its basically just a waste, causes more side effects and makes tapering down once you stabilize more difficult. The only benefit to that high of a dose is it prevents relapse because the blockade is so strong you won't be able to get high of your DOC for a few days. Which is of course the reason doctors will want to lock you up on a high dose like that, they think its saving your life (eh, maybe it is) and they don't want you relapsing, whether for financial or moral reasons.

I absolutely agree...although the ceiling is variable in person to person, it seems to be around 8mg. It was lower for me...possibly between 4mg and 6mg.

 

[PKPro]

Hey guys, I need some clarification here. I remember reading (not sure if it was here or somewhere else, I can't find it through search either way) that if you were already dependent on suboxone (AKA you have been on it for 2 months or more) and you dose heroin one day, that you do not have to wait as long to re dose your suboxone since you're body is accustomed to the suboxone anyway. So in theory, if you stop your dose for 24 hrs, get your fix etc... Then you can redose same day on sub and be just fine. Is this correct? Anyone with personal experience or knowledge on this that could confirm this for me? Thanks!

(Before anyone starts lecturing about staying on the path, not to break and get high etc, that's not info I'm lookin for, though your concerns are much appreciated, this is information I am trying to prove to a close buddy of mine who's also in treatment, he doesn't believe me so I'm posting this for clarification.)

 

[Tommyboy]

Hey guys, I need some clarification here. I remember reading (not sure if it was here or somewhere else, I can't find it through search either way) that if you were already dependent on suboxone (AKA you have been on it for 2 months or more) and you dose heroin one day, that you do not have to wait as long to re dose your suboxone since you're body is accustomed to the suboxone anyway. So in theory, if you stop your dose for 24 hrs, get your fix etc... Then you can redose same day on sub and be just fine. Is this correct? Anyone with personal experience or knowledge on this that could confirm this for me? Thanks!

(Before anyone starts lecturing about staying on the path, not to break and get high etc, that's not info I'm lookin for, though your concerns are much appreciated, this is information I am trying to prove to a close buddy of mine who's also in treatment, he doesn't believe me so I'm posting this for clarification.)

I did this and waited 14 hours as opposed to 24 and was fine.

 

[BlueHues]

^^Yeah, you can get away with it for one day, but IME, once you hit 48 hours without Suboxone....it gets iffy.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^

Yeah. I agree. Even two or three days for me has resulted in having to go through a shitty transition again.

 

[PKPro]

Word, that's what I thought. So long as you stay within 24 hours you're good to go. Thanks guys!

Hey Mr. Scag, I remember you talking about how you used to take breaks and treat yourself every now and then, out of curiosity, how long did you stay off your sub before doing so? (And if you don't mind me asking, what dosage were you on?) I'm on 16mg a day, (2 5.7 zubsolvs which each equal a strip) and I imagine on a dose this high it'd be out of the question... Wish I was as far in as my buddy, he's down to 4 a day...

 

[Tryptamite]

hat about switching to an equipotent iv dosefor a few days before the intended break. (administered in 2-3 doses throughout the day). should allow built up subutex to clear the system and you should be good to dose 12-24 hours after last sub shot depending on dose.

we alll do agree that iv sub has much shorter half life yeah?

this is just theory, think it would work?

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Word, that's what I thought. So long as you stay within 24 hours you're good to go. Thanks guys!

Hey Mr. Scag, I remember you talking about how you used to take breaks and treat yourself every now and then, out of curiosity, how long did you stay off your sub before doing so? (And if you don't mind me asking, what dosage were you on?) I'm on 16mg a day, (2 5.7 zubsolvs which each equal a strip) and I imagine on a dose this high it'd be out of the question... Wish I was as far in as my buddy, he's down to 4 a day...

Yeah at 16mg's, that really isn't possible. I used to be able to do it because I was on like 2mg's. I purposley stayed on that low of a dose so I could go out and use whenever I wanted after only 12-24hours not taking the sub.

I ended up really screwing myself though, because as I did it more and more, it became a lot harder to get back on the sub, until it literally became almost impossible and I had to get on methadone. So, in retrospect, I wish I would have just taken a blocking dose, sucked it up, and used the suboxone like I was supposed to.

 

[Ziggy stardust]

Yeah at 16mg's, that really isn't possible. I used to be able to do it because I was on like 2mg's. I purposley stayed on that low of a dose so I could go out and use whenever I wanted after only 12-24hours not taking the sub.

I ended up really screwing myself though, because as I did it more and more, it became a lot harder to get back on the sub, until it literally became almost impossible and I had to get on methadone. So, in retrospect, I wish I would have just taken a blocking dose, sucked it up, and used the suboxone like I was supposed to.

I was on methadone 12 yrs, Mr.S, and sub 2, I really think methadone is a much better maintenance drug. I really didn't feel satisfied on Sub. Don't be hard on yourself about being on meth. Sub just doesn't work for a lot of people. Granted, meth is harder to get off, IMO, but you could always switch to sub when and if you go off opiates. I've been off opiates 9months and it's still difficult at times, and not always as great as it's cracked up to be, so enjoy the fact your not opiate free. (Wow, I'm not a very good spokesperson for living opiate free, I'm I)

 

[RTrain]

I finally got my hands on some of the strips, surprised I haven't gotten a chance to get them until now Thankfully too because I was down to 1 generic pill and then found these strips.... you know, just lying around. They do dissolve fast, but I assume not spitting the saliva/sub mixture out for 15 minutes is still recommended to get the full dose to absorb. I must say they are easier to break down into accurate doses, which makes me like them much more. Best I could do with pills is creak them down to 1/8ths, or 1 mg pieces, and that was still iffy and probably off by .1-.2 mg a lot of the time.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^

Yeah one of the best things about the strips is the ease of cutting them into smaller doses. They also dissolve a lot faster then the pills, as you noticed.

Zubsolv actually dissolves even faster then the strips do.

 

[PKPro]

Hah so on high doses like 16mg you'd be stuck waiting at least 3 days then huh? guess thats why I'm taking it, slipping up aint an option ;-)

 

[BlueHues]

^Yeah, 16mgs will bury you for days...you could get high 24 hours later, but it will take twice as much...and it could be dangerous to use heroin on top of bupe 24 hours later trying to get high...

You might do a big shot, barely feel it and do another one...but the problem is, there's still bupe in your system partially blocking it, and at the 24 hour mark it's continuously dropping every hour...Throw a bunch of heroin on top of that...now you have a bunch of heroin floating around inside of you, binding to the receptors as the bupe levels are dropping, and it get's dangerous!