EADD: New (and less new) RCs - steric hindrance and vestigial rituals

[Swarm]

I am 90 % content just to eat all my drugs these days, though I do like a quick snort too. Certain drugs like K don't really work the same if you just eat them anyway. I gave plugging a go for the first time about a year back but I'm not sure on what the right amounts of solution to use are. The only syringes I rob from work are 1ml ones but I think I read somewhere that most people like to plug about a 10 ml solution. Its quite funny actually as I never really even thought about plugging before I joined BL, but as soon as I did I started feeling all left out like I was the only not doing it or something.

I was only ever around needles for a brief period about 10 years ago. I was rapidly descending into a world of chaos in the shape of a meth pipe, accompanied by double "crack thumb" as my mate called it. Needles looked to me at the time to represent "the end" so I stayed away. Shame I never did try a speed ball / snow ball, but then again not everyone makes it through to the other side so was probably for the best.

Interesting to learn that ethanol is a no go. I think heat and stability are different for different drugs. Codeine is supposed to fall apart around 60 degrees, though I find it can handle 70 fine when I do a cold water extraction. I think read that codeine is dangerous to inject anyway though so thats probably irrelevant.

I think lsd doesn't like temperatures above 80 degrees.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

bacteria can't survive at temperatures above 63 degrees so heat is one method.

Simply not true I'm afraid. Maybe some bacteria will be killed at this temperature, but certainly not all, or even most. Autoclaves run at about 121 degrees C, but also use pressure at 15psi or greater - it's the combination of heat & pressure which causes the sterilising effect. I used to work in the microbiology lab at NW Water testing drinking water samples for nasties, and we had to sterilise a number of samples as controls - these went into the autoclave for at least 20 minutes. Then there's also the thermophilic bacteria -these can thrive in intense heat & pressure, though admittedly these are not likely to be encountered under normal circumstances.

I guess the issue with preparing a solution for IM injection is sterilising the drug itself as it's easy to get hold of sterile water amps from yer drug clinic. But as already mentioned, using heat (especially at autoclave temps) is not really an option due to degradation of the drug. So if anyone does know the answer to this i'd be extremely interested myself...


edit: vacuum filtration of the prepared solution using micron filters would work to remove the bacteria (this is how we separated the bacteria from the test samples), but this would not get rid of viruses and is not practical unless you happen to have access to lab facilities..

 

[Shambles]

I gave plugging a go for the first time about a year back but I'm not sure on what the right amounts of solution to use are. The only syringes I rob from work are 1ml ones but I think I read somewhere that most people like to plug about a 10 ml solution. Its quite funny actually as I never really even thought about plugging before I joined BL, but as soon as I did I started feeling all left out like I was the only not doing it or something.

10ml is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay OTT. No need for that amount of liquid plus those 10ml barrels ain't designed for comfort

I usally use 2ml barrels - occasionally 5ml if, for whatever reason, a larger volume of liquid is necessary - and wouldn't necessarily even use a full 2ml of solution. Basically, you prep it exactly as you would for an injection only you don't attach a needle and you squirt it in a pre-existing orifice.

I'd never heard of it til joining BL and it definitely took a while before I gave any serious consideration to trying it. It is a rather strange thing to the uninitiated. To say the least. There was barely a fraction as many people around who did it at the time - or at least precious few who admitted to it. However, those that did often tended to be the most experienced - and often amongst the most well respected - members so the giggle and ick factors did eventually give way to curiosity, research and consideration of the benefits on offer, eventual experimentation swiftly followed by

It's a very effective method with a number of advantages over other ROAs. Is also a bit of a faff and... doesn't have a needle attached to the barrel so always gonna be just shy of ideal for needle fetish purposes. As I say, I'm perfectly content with plugging - and have relearned the pleasures available via other non-needlish ROAs when appropriate - but a lil pokey-poke once in a while is a bit of a treat I must admit. Occasional treat, for sure, but very much a treat

(should go without saying i'm obviously not recommending injection of any type (other than podgering sans needle) to anybody who doesn't already do it - it's not such a great habit to pick up to say the least*

 

[babylonboy]

I don't IM myself, Shammy, so whilst I could speculate on the best way to produce sterile solutions, it would be totally based on abstract understanding. psood0nym, though, is one of the old guard of K+trips IMers, Dondante too, I think they both still post in PD, probably worth shooting off a PM or two.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

10ml is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay OTT. No need for that amount of liquid plus those 10ml barrels ain't designed for comfort

I usally use 2ml barrels - occasionally 5ml if, for whatever reason, a larger volume of liquid is necessary - and wouldn't necessarily even use a full 2ml of solution. Basically, you prep it exactly as you would for an injection only you don't attach a needle and you squirt it in a pre-existing orifice.

I'd never heard of it til joining BL and it definitely took a while before I gave any serious consideration to trying it. It is a rather strange thing to the uninitiated. To say the least. There was barely a fraction as many people around who did it at the time - or at least precious few who admitted to it. However, those that did often tended to be the most experienced - and often amongst the most well respected - members so the giggle and ick factors did eventually give way to curiosity, research and consideration of the benefits on offer, eventual experimentation swiftly followed by

It's a very effective method with a number of advantages over other ROAs. Is also a bit of a faff and... doesn't have a needle attached to the barrel so always gonna be just shy of ideal for needle fetish purposes. As I say, I'm perfectly content with plugging - and have relearned the pleasures available via other non-needlish ROAs when appropriate - but a lil pokey-poke once in a while is a bit of a treat I must admit. Occasional treat, for sure, but very much a treat

(should go without saying i'm obviously not recommending injection of any type (other than podgering sans needle) to anybody who doesn't already do it - it's not such a great habit to pick up to say the least*

Said it before, I'll say it again, plugging is the single best thing BL has taught me.

I often have to use 5ml barrels because they are all the chemist sells, but yeah, the 3ml small thin ones are preferable but I have to rely on a mate for those.

Plugging is no faff at all. I have converted several people to this ROA (but don't try it with ketamine kids!) and the exceptions who refuse are obviously maladjusted. And male. Never met a woman who doesn't like shoving something up her arse every now and again.

 

[Josh]

(but don't try it with ketamine kids!)

Why not, just out of interest?

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Why not, just out of interest?

Ketamine is almost unique in being one of the few drugs you can't plug. Well, you can, but it's massively wasteful (you might need anything from half a g upwards to hole) and the effects are particularly unpleasant and markedly different from any other K experience. I don't know the science behind why it doesn't work (well) just through accidental experience and some wise words from F&B.

Ok, I'll explain the accidental bit. Someone, ahem, sent me some methylone once to try. Except he got his bags mixed up and I injected 250mg of ketamine up my arse, thinking it was methylone. Not the greatest hour of my drug life (particularly as I'd given the same to trusting gf) and was saved after an hour of darkness by the wonders of mephedrone. I remember my gf being terrified and asking me if the meph would definitely take away the horrible feeling. I said yes very convincingly but it was more out of hope than judgement. Though 10 mins later I was proved right and all was well with the world again. For that alone, it irks me a bit when mephedrone gets slagged as a useless drug. It saved us that night.

Don't stick K up your bum, bad trip.

 

[Swarm]

Simply not true I'm afraid.

I commend you on the tactful manner by which you set me straight. The fact is I love learning new stuff and do what I can to be a low ego guy so your post was more than welcome.

I already knew about extremophile bacteria that reside by thermal vents but I figured that was unlikely to impact on the present set up so I left it out. I was making my generalisation based on my time working in kitchens. Unless I'm mistaken the law dictates that all heated food must reach a minimum of 63 degrees before it can be served to the public. However, what I'm taking from your post is that the 63 degree threshold in the catering business is as low as it is because of the more stringent procedures employed by water sanitation companies such as the one you worked for.

 

[babylonboy]

^I imagine that 63 is enough to kill off many bacteria, particularly stuff like Salmonella that is a pathogen and is found in food and thrives in the environment of an animal gastrointestinal tract (37, in humans), but as FUBAR says, there are bacteria that are adapted to life in almost every environment on the face of the earth, including extreme heat, lack of moisture, acidity, lack of oxygen, etc. Also, food doesn't need to be sterile, and if you tried to make it so, you wouldn't have anything very appetising left. I like my omelettes wet and my steak blue, and that seems to be OK. Live yoghurt and beer are fine, we've evolved alongside bacteria. FUBAR's not saying that all water is sterilised, but that some has to be for use as a control, for comparison against other samples, which is a method of ensuring scientific rigour in an experiment, not for making drinking water safe.
/OT

 

[Swarm]

10ml is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay OTT. No need for that amount of liquid plus those 10ml barrels ain't designed for comfort

Cool. Yeah I figured 10 would be a little crazy. The only reason I asked about that was that I sometimes read about people plugging drugs that don't appear particularly soluble to me, unless you used a lot of water. The obvious answer to that is that I was mistaken in my original thoughts as to the solubility of the drug.

Is water the only solvent you can use to plug or do people sometimes use vodka or something like that which can act as a decent middle man when attempting to dissolve a slightly belligerent substance?

@SHM - You need a blog dude.

 

[Swarm]

@babylonboy

Yeah man bacteria are cool as hell. I believe the human body is composed of more bacterial cells than it is human. Obviously they are like 100 times smaller than the human cell or something but that still makes up quite a significant component of the body by mass alone.

My only dig against the mightly bacteria is their lack of capacity for multicelurarity. Other than that I'm verging on being a bit of a fan.

 

[Shambles]

Is water the only solvent you can use to plug or do people sometimes use vodka or something like that which can act as a decent middle man when attempting to dissolve a slightly belligerent substance?

Although you could plug an alcohol solution I wouldn't fancy it myself. It's gonna sting and alcohol is very easily absorbed there so may even get a bit pissed. Which is either a bonus or not as you see fit. I've never had to use anything other than water and maybe a lil heat to help it along the way if it's not so soluble. Occasionally have to go for a 5ml barrel if it really is relatively insoluble but never had to go higher than 5ml or use owt but water.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Amt isn't very water soluble. It's the only one I can think of though. Apart from the bunk "MDAI" a certain reputable vendor sold me once.

Totally with Shambles on the never more than 5 and water only. Definitely heard of people using vodka but, y'know, there's nutters everywhere.

 

[GayPhone]

How does Diclazepam (1mg) rate against Etizolam?

 

[Funkadelica]

Finally got round to trying 4-AcO-DMT today and had a 10mg dose, although perhaps not judging by the experience, I'm not sure if my scales are fucked but it looked a small amount also. Bloody hell it kicked the fucking arse out of me. I journeyed to the depths of hell and back. Easily the most terrifying but beautiful trip I've ever experienced. I really cannot explain it all, not right now. The come up was very intense visual wise and I panicked a bit, decided to do shots of fine whisky and drink wine. I learned the harsh myth of alcohol 'killing' trips. It intensified everything. I felt the ultimate low, the most despairing feeling I've ever felt. I let everyone down in life and the alcohol felt like posion, a toxic substance. I felt so alone, nothing would help not even my best playist or a nice shower. It was dreadful and a feeling I'll never, ever forget. I don't think anything could be worse in life. Thankfully my best friend helped me on facebook and I eventually came out of it around 2 hours later. What I experienced then was utter bliss, so many things I need to be thankful for. My parents for such a great upbringing, friends who have helping me recently and me not realising what they are doing. Childhood memories, things I haven't thought about in god knows how long. Some of the most euphoric moments in my life but at the same time it was grounded. If that makes sense. Positive insights and things I can learn. An absolute beautiful feeling and it felt so natural.

I feel like my brain is rewired, like I've settled a score with my past. I've come to realise that I have so many insecurities, stuff I've never realised. This chemical is magical, I could never do this recreationally though, it deserves the absolute upmost respect. I sincerely hope that I can work and build on fixing these insecurities.

 

[ColtDan]

Sounds heavy

Ive smoked DMT whilst drunk before, not a good combo the DMT gave me messages of "leave that dirty poisonous shit alone"

Next time if you panic take some benzos

 

[Funkadelica]

^ Yeah absolutely

At the same time though, despite the most horrendous moments, I feel glad it happened. Maybe having a benzo would have killed the whole thing. I feel like the positive part of the trip far outweighs the negative. That's a good thing and a sign of my mindset. I need to be more positive about things in life, and this is a start. I'll never ever drink alcohol on a trip again. Never. I could feel how toxic it is to the body, it's a strange feeling.

I feel absolutely tremendous now, like a pivotal moment in life has been had

 

[ColtDan]

Amazing aint it

Dunno how 4-aco-DMT compares to the N,N,DMT, sounds wicked though

My first trip... it was profound, unbelievable experience

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/518914-First-DMT-Experience

 

[Shambles]

Maybe having a benzo would have killed the whole thing. I feel like the positive part of the trip far outweighs the negative.

Benzos won't kill a trip - nothing short of antipsychotics will do that really - but they should ease any anxiety. Obviously it's better to not have to use anything if possible. Many actually find that simply have a benzo around so that you know you could use it if you really needed it means that you never do need it. Alcohol can affect trips in somewhat more unpredicatable ways - can ease anxiety or can also cause confusion or - frequently - something akin to what you experienced: just feeling like you wished you hadn't used alcohol. Psyches often don't seem to like booze. Very sensible of 'em I must say.

That aside, your trip sounds pretty amazing stuff. Few things are as life-affirming as a really good trip where you come back full of positivity and eager to hold on to the insights you may have gained. And all for just 10mg? Sounds like a bargain too to me

Great stuff - I hope you can make good use of it

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I commend you on the tactful manner by which you set me straight. The fact is I love learning new stuff and do what I can to be a low ego guy so your post was more than welcome.

I already knew about extremophile bacteria that reside by thermal vents but I figured that was unlikely to impact on the present set up so I left it out. I was making my generalisation based on my time working in kitchens. Unless I'm mistaken the law dictates that all heated food must reach a minimum of 63 degrees before it can be served to the public. However, what I'm taking from your post is that the 63 degree threshold in the catering business is as low as it is because of the more stringent procedures employed by water sanitation companies such as the one you worked for.

Shit, sorry man, I didn't mean that to come over as harsh, please accept my apologies. However, I was wondering where you got the 63 degree figure from and now I understand. Yeh, as Babylon boy pointed out in his post above, food doesn't need to be sterile - the purpose of cooking isn't necessarily to kill all bacteria, but to reduce the concentration levels to a point where our stomachs can handle the rest. I dunno if you know or not, it's not bacteria itself which causes problems, it's the waste products produced by their metabolisms - and in sufficient concentrations the waste from certain bacteria can be toxic to us. Similarly, when IVing, a few bacteria can be tolerated because when in the bloodstream they are spread around the body where our immune systems can deal with them. However, IM injections are a totally different kettle of fish, because any bacteria present in the injection are deposited in one spot in the body where, if conditions are conducive, they can thrive and multiply until the colony is large enough to cause a potentially very harmful infection. This is why it is extremely important to have a sterile solution for IM injections, though as long as the water you use to make the solution is sterile, then there is unlikely to be any problems with bacteria from the drug that is being put into solution as long as it has been been kept cool & dry as most pathogenic bacteria are water borne.

(disclaimer): I'm willing to be corrected on any of the above as I am by no means an expert, I just have a couple of years of microbiology experience.