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Quitting/Tapering Thread.

Just very tired from lack of sleep hopefully that will go away in time. Ive been using highlands rls tablets and taking all vitamins especially iron. Ive also had 2 diazepam. Any other help let me know? Espeically with the sleeping part.

J x

Strong valerian tablets might work once or twice, but after that they didn't do much for me (it may have been a convinving placebo the first time I took them). Some other over the counter antihistamines that I've found work to a degree for sleep are Restavit (Doxylamine Succinate) and Phenergan (Promethazine). They all lose their effectiveness pretty quickly, though. Of course if you can get a prescription for temazepam, that is often used to treat insomnia with good success. Apart from that, doctors and psychologists and even regular people recommend exercising during the day in order to tire your body out. I've never been able to do that, but a lot of people vouch for it if you can do it.

I suppose I should add, if sleep is really an issue and you are still suffering acute withdrawals, the last time I went through that there is a couple of other medicines that I have taken, which have worked, however I wouldn't advise their use unless it was absolutely necessary. Those two were Catapres (Clonidine) and Seroquel (Quetiapine). Be especially wary the latter of the two, it's an anti psychotic which in itself isn't an issue, but there are a lot of potential side effects and unpleasantries with it. It can also leave you sleeping for way yoo long, waking drowsy and not really feeling rested. But there is a large range of doses. I would only really recommend these last two during the acute phase of withdrawals, and even then reluctantly. Some times though, you simply must sleep, and I have used them before.
 
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Cheers Chugs and Footscazy. Its been a really tough time for all of us.

For my mate its about as bad as it could be. For me its meant 7 weeks and 4 days clean.

Im still in regular contact as Im now assisting him on a professional level with the help he needs at home.

All we have is hope.

To everyone.. well done on your efforts. I cant really take credit for not using, the situation just changed. The easy score stopped. So luckily for me even after 8+ years of regular use, and as much as I liked to use.. I was able to just stop.

But I could only do it because of the situation which occured. Meth had its hold on me mentally, hell bad.

I wish I could say I was strong enough to have won the fight. But I cant really.
 
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For me its meant 7 weeks and 4 days clean.

Nice, wish I could say the same. keep it up!! I know a few people who haven't used meth for years and they're always still talking about it and craving it etc. idk how long it will take for that to go away, maybe never? anyway, all the best to ya! :)
 
Its my 4th day clean Now from codeine...i feel fine no symtoms other than rls Omg its so annoying... Anyone know how long it will be before they Ease off? Currently doing nightshift at work at the minute and i feel like going crazy. X
 
Its my 4th day clean Now from codeine...i feel fine no symtoms other than rls Omg its so annoying... Anyone know how long it will be before they Ease off? Currently doing nightshift at work at the minute and i feel like going crazy. X

Look on the bright side - RLS is the only symptom you are suffering from AND you can keep working. I think that is pretty great considering you are only on day 4!

I'm not sure how long the RLS will be around for - that was never a major concern for me. If you start to suffer from joint pains in your knees I would recommend some neurofen (just the regular kind obviously!). I hope it goes away soon and keep up the good work.
 
Thank you :-) back on nightshift tonight but i dont mind its keeping my mind off things. I hope it doesnt last too long its the thing that makes you want to use again. But im not going to im detirmined. :-) like you said im lucky no to get any other symptom i think thats due to my taper though. Ive been taking lots of vitamins too so hopefully they get in my system :-) thanks for all your help guys! Day 5 Tomorrow! X
 
^At first I read "vitamins" as "Valium" and I was like "Nooooooooooooooooooo!!!!' <tears shirt and looks upwards towards heaven with tears streaming>

But no, you're doing it all the right way, and the RLS will not last long. At this point, you're really, really close to being free.

You've done so well this far, and I don't want to push you before you're out of the woods completely, but have you thought about why you were taking the codeine in the first place - and is that issue still there waiting for you? One of the biggest - actually, THE biggest - things to determine success and avoiding relapse is that once you get the acute crap out of the way, you might feel a little flat mentally for a while. If you were trying to escape from something (and not many people aren't, IMO), then when you're ready maybe think about what changes, if any, can be made to avoid the inital triggers.

The problem with addiction to downers is that they numb you to the problems that were/are making you unhappy. I have a backlog of about seven years of shit in life that, at first, I simply had no time to dwell on at all. I was the sole earner in my family, and immediately after my father died of liver disease I had to get two jobs to pay off medical expenses. I worked nearly non-stop for just under five years virtually from the day after the funeral.

During that time I was really busy and didn't allow myself to dwell on how I felt about it all. I built up a fairly mammoth opiate addiction, which turned into a twin opiate and benzo addiction. That lasted years. When I went through hell getting off that shit - and it was hell - I had severe withdrawals and had no time or clarity to think of anything except the pain I was in. Then when I got out of it, I was elated for about a week just from the contrast. Then I got hit by a tsunami of shit that I'd repressed, and within another week I was back on opiates and still am to this day.

This might not be directly relevant to you, Jade, but just generally speaking, if the underlying issues (assuming they are any and it wasn't merely recreational use that became habitual) are left, they just stay stay in your psyche and then spring forward the moment you get rid of your crutches. You've done really well in getting this far, and please let us know how you go in the next few days:)
 
Halif thanks for all the advice! Vitamins have helped alot i think no valium! Lol ive took 2 diazepam the while time i dont really want to swap one addiction for another.

I have thought alot about being clean and how to stay that way and why i started taking codeine in the first place. I suffered from anxiety and depression a while back and i guess i started taking these to help me feel good and just to get through the day. Thats the part im dreading the most the anxiety its awful and really hard to deal with. But im going to deal with it this time and get my life back on track im only 21 years old i shouldnt be living like this. I guess im going to have to start putting a plan in place for when the physical withdrawals are over. Just glad ive getting this far :-) i wouldnt have done it without everyones support on here! X
 
You sound like you've got a really realistic and sensible approach to this. I think it's commendable that you've given thought into the root causes and are prepared for the fact that it is not an easy ride once the acute physical withdrawal is over. I personally hate the "You're so young, you've got your whole life in front you!" cliche, because to me it's meaningless. Age doesn't mean much - mental maturity means everything.

Some people said that above cliche to me when I was your age - the first time I saw a psychiatrist and a counsellor. THey both used that shit and I just thought "that doesn't help at all". I guess that nobody can give another person the key to figure out their life, but I wish I had received some more practical advice, because I'm now 35 and more addicted - deeper in the hole of dependency and depression - than I've ever been before. The reason is that I could never make it past the post acute withdrawal stage and face my demons.

I did try. Again, and again. But the demons always come back, no matter what. That's what severe depression is.

I do think though, having said the above, that if you can get yourself back on track and be strong enough to get by without chemical crutches, you'll be doing yourself the biggest favour imaginable, because it only gets harder and harder the longer you use, and the longer you try to run away.

FWIW, I thinnk you've got a great attitude and I would place money on you sorting this out and coming out all the wiser for it.

More power to you. All the best.
 
Hi Jadechick, I just come of a huge codeine habit which I got the same way as you: using it to deal with anxiety and stress of life. Problem is life happens nearly everyday. I always knew I would use recreationally after I got rid of the habit, but my one rule is never use it to deal with life, you need natural ways.

The best thing I find is exercise. I start everyday with at least an hour of intense exercise. Helps you deal more than codeine does. Not that I don't use occasionally on a lazy Sunday afternoon, but never to deal with life because then you're on the greasy grass.
 
Halif thank you for the support you really made me smile when i read your reply. :-) I hope you find the strength to get clean one day its so hard especially when depression is involved.

Dr phibes its nice to know someone who was in a similar position to me. How did you get clean? Did yoi use anything to help you? How long were your withdrawals? Im thinking about exercise as everybody has said that it works wonders. I used to love swimming and going for long walks before i started taking codeine. im going to join my old gym and start going back there :-) if you dont mind me asking did your anxiety come back? If so how did you deal with it? Thats the part im scared of the most. You sound as though you have done so well it gives me hope that everything will be okay in the end. J x
 
Yer Jadechick I can relate, I kept paying my gym membership for the 12 months I was using codeine but never went.

Physical WD's were about 5 days then I didn't sleep for 10 days and that really knocked the shit out of me. The only thing I took was Milk Thistle because it is good for your liver and Magnesium because I heard that helps. After 10 days I took a small amount of codeine, not as in weakening, but sort of turning my CT into a really long brutal taper. I slept eleven hours straight and was sleeping every night since.

Went back to work on day 16, a Friday, and felt on the verge of a panic attack all day. On the Monday it wasn't so bad but all I could do at work was sit and stare at a computer screen. I kept intending to start exercising first thing in the morning but had no energy, so after work on Wednesday I forced myself to do an hard hour on an exercise bike. Next morning woke up feeling great, jumped out of bed instead of turning the alarm off and went to the gym and lifted heavy weights for an hour.

Work became easy, sure I still get anxious about some things during the day but I just take the attitude that if you continually face what makes you anxious you will get over it.

There really is nothing you can take unless they hand out unlimited supplies of opiates. Anti depressants are a scam. Tried that once, never again.

Exercise is the only thing that has ever worked for me.
 
after work on Wednesday I forced myself to do an hard hour on an exercise bike. Next morning woke up feeling great, jumped out of bed instead of turning the alarm off and went to the gym and lifted heavy weights for an hour.

Work became easy, sure I still get anxious about some things during the day but I just take the attitude that if you continually face what makes you anxious you will get over it.

YES!! That's it right there. That moment you got on the bike and forced your body to wake up and activate again.... the great turning point. Ahhh, I remember it so vividly. It's such a great moment when you reach the point where you can exercise and kick start your cardiovascular system, and real energy starts coming back.

So good to hear that, Dr Phibes. It's been a shit time for you, no doubt, but I have to admit to having got a kind of vicarious satisfaction from following poeple like you and Catching Fish (and Jade's next!) make it though the worst of the acute shit. Yeah, exercise is unbeatable. Keep it up. Especially in the first couple of months, the gains you get from working out - particulary weight lifting when you're up to it - are so pronounced because your body had been running sluggishly due to the opiates. Depressed nervous system, poor digestion, etc. These things just start dropping off when you get into the exercise and the feeling of being not just alive and awake, but actually feeling pretty good... man, those first couple of months were amazing just due to the contrast. Suddenly day to day living wasn't an epic battle. I had energy to deal with things.

Awesome work, man. Keep going and don't dwell on it too much if it seems like the mental wellbeing is lagging behind the physical improvements. You'll get there :)
 
Hey Halif. You are obviously extremely informed and educated on this topic and also extremely supportive for those battling with addiction. Do you ever think about or consider trying to kick opiates again at point or are do circumstances dictate otherwise at this particular point in time?

I know it is a pretty personal question but I'm asking out of curiosity as a friend and with no ill intention. Feel free not to answer if you aren't comfortable or in the mood and I'll delete this.

CF
 
Wow, thanks to both of you guys. I really do appreciate the feedback. I figure that the info I've put into my posts may have helped people in some way, but it's a rare and precious thing when someone actually expresses their gratitude directly. If I get one positive message per every few hundred posts, then it's enough to spur me on;).

Catching Fish, that's a perfectly reasonable question to ask, as far as I'm concerned. I've been posting very personal things for many months now on here - the reason being that I believe members and guests of this forum have potentially more to gain in knowing the details of my life and issues, rather than me trying to keep them hidden away. Maybe someone will read something I write, and it will be very familiar to them and they'll feel a little less alone. Or perhaps through my words and communication here, I will be able to show people (including authorities monitoring the site?) that there are a wide spectrum of drug users in Australia.

Basically, to answer your question, I don't think about trying to quit opiates. I don't want to. I'm also a benzo addict, and that's something that I do very much want to be free from. I'm working on that, slowly.

I don't really care much for labels (diagnoses), but I think it's safe to say that I have clinical depression. It's not much of a surprise as it runs steadily like toxic river down the generations on my mother's side. She has it, too (my mother is depressed, I mean). My maternal grandmother spent a couple of years in a psychiatric hospital when my mother was very young. So depressive episodes, sometimes of a severe intensity, seem to be a genetic feature in my family.

Unforunately, my father was also a depressed man. He died about seven years ago due to liver disease. He drank too much for too long. He was 53.

So, my life has had its ups and downs, but to be honest nothing that's ever happened to me in 'real' life compares to the random episodes of all consuming despair that I've endured since I was around 14 years old. I think the term 'depression' is overused these days, and I'm certain that anti-depressants are overprescribed. What disturbs me is that the medical community seems increasingly to be treating normal reactions to traumatic life experiences as depression and then just writing a script for SSRIs or benzos or whatever.

There's a difference between an emotional response brought about by something happens in a person's life that causes them disappointment or unhappiness, and intense feelings of misery and despair which appear and disappear completely 'out of sync' with the events in a person's life. The latter has been my experience. You know, when I went to my father's funeral I felt deeply upset. That's grief. That's normal. The thing is, I've felt that very same feeling - a feeling of loss which is almost unbearable - more times than I could possibly count, starting from my early teens. The intensity of the emotion is so strong, that I use an enormous amount of energy just to 'put it away' so that I can attempt to live some kind of life.

I spent years - from age 17 - exploring anything and everything to try and find out what the hell was wrong with me, and why I couldn't seem to shake these awful episodes. I have done many kinds of exercise; cycling, weight lifting, boxing, yoga, etc. I have tried many kinds of diet; no processed foods, only organic foods, vegetarian, eatign whatever I want whenever, and of course, not eating. I've done a handful of 'fasts' in my life. Usually just 48 hours, but some where a bit longer.

The result from these things, each of which I put all my energy into doing properly and for at least six months a shot, was that I felt very physically healthy. Mentally, however, the depression came and went just as it always had. I have tried four different anti-depressants over the last 14 years, with breaks between each of one to two years, so I know pretty well what it feels like to be on or off ADs. A lot of people hate on anti-depressants, and I believe that's because they didn't really need them. Doctors prescribe them too often. I responded extremely well to two of the medications, OK to one other, and terribly to the fourth.

I've been a drinker and drug user since around 15 years old. I've had periods of very heavy use, and also extended periods of abstinence.

I've seen three counsellors, one psychologist, and two psychiatrists. The psychologist meant well and genuinely tried to help me and understand me. However, I'm afraid that none of them said or did anything which got through the barrier that exists around me.

So, the point I'm getting at, is that I've tried - been trying - to sort myself out for about fifteen years now. And I realise, that ultimately, it doesn't make any difference. Well, actually, if I exercise and eat well, I do feel better. If I eat badly and abuse too many drugs, I feel crappy. But those two variables cannot compare, cannot get even close, to the power of the changes of mood I experience. A bout of depression for me can last three days, or two months. The in-between periods of respite are the same. The only constant is that they come, and they go of their own will.

So, about two years ago, I pretty much gave up completely. I've tried lots of things, adn tried again, and then again to make sure. Nothing makes a difference. The closest I got to normal is using opiates. I will also take virtually any other drug that provides some distraction. It is very hard for people to understand this, and to my surprise some people seem to be personally offended by my attitude. "You can't give up!" they say. "You just have to find the right < insert whatever they think the answer is>".

But I'm very, very tired now from trying this and that the other. So I take it day by day. I use the opiates I can get and other stuff, too. And I just exist.

I'm not a hermit. I have some truly wonderful friends. I've also been in a relationship with a girl for just under six years now, and it's by far the best relationship I've ever had - and I've had a couple of really good ones, so I mean this one's special.

I also make electronic music - a hobby which I'm truly passionate about.

So, I have a life. And it's got lots of great things about it. I'm not suicidal, and I'm not angry at anyone. But I have this ... whatever you wanna call it... condition, that is a part of my core and when an episode fires up, taht's it - life goes on hold. No music, no talking, no leaving the house. It's like my soul just gets up and leaves for an unspecified length of time and then, suddenly, I'll snap out of it.

So what the fuck is that all about, eh? The million dollar question. I don't know, and as I've spent my whole adult life searching for the answer, and twisting my lifestyle around like a Rubik's Cube trying to find the right 'position' or 'sequence', I don't feel I'm any closer to figuring it out, and I wonder if in fact there's nothing to figure out, and that's simply a chemical deficiency which hasn't been properly identified or treated.

I don't know.

But I am increasingly detached from caring about it, and when I can take enough, opiates help me to 'un-pause' life when it goes on hold, so I use them and will continue to do so. If I could afford to, I'd up the dose, even though my tolerance is already high. As I said, I take it day by day.

Sorry, long ramble there. But really, thanks Catching Fish for asking and you too Dr Phibes for the kind words. It means a lot:)
 
Hi. I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this...

But I am currently 5 days sober from the soul-crushing succubus that is methamphetamine.
I have always used this drug, as far as I can remember. From taking prescription amphetamines during mid-teens to abusing all sorts of amphetamine analogues to full blown meth addiction.
Part of it was self medication. I managed to use for months-years while working, with only the occasional blow up (Blow up=Over use, no sleep for days...Fuck how am I going to function in normal life if I can't go back in time and get my sleep back?!)

In the last 6 months a few friends and I have decided to change usage to a more hedonistic style. Getting high for the sake of getting high. Hours turned into days, days turned into weeks. (Literally, last Monday I was kicking myself for staying up 48+ hours before I realized it had almost been 6 days. That realization hurt...My brain and my body).
The fuck?

I have seen my best friend die from methamphetamine abuse, and recently another friend been put behind bars.... I never thought I would be in so deep, and I denied being in so deep for years. Holy fuck?! People dying and people in jail? No no no, you are just a kid.
It is finally time to wake up though.

Holy fuck. 5 days....5 days of sleeping and eating, and then sleeping, and then eating....and then sleeping. The fuck? 5 days of psychotic flashes of images. Images that haunt me... Funny things, fucked up things, intense things.
I feel like a supercharged car that has crashed and can barely accelerate. How do I go back to normal living after living so intensely for such a long period?

I will get over this gloomy perception I have of things easy enough, I have done it before. I will feel good in time, but that is also dangerous..
But how do I stop myself from rebuilding, rebooting and then re-using?

Fuck.
 
Hi everyone. I managed to get out the house today went and done a bit shopping and had lunch out felt great AT FIRST! Then at around 11pm the rls started god i am sick of these now its so bloody annoying. I nearly give up! Instead i took a breather had a bubble bath and got into bed with a hot water bottle. I know things are getting better so taking anything now will put me back to square one and i dont think i could do this again. I feel much more relaxed now lying in bed with my hot water bottle + watching tv. Soooo glad i didnt cave in! Just a little moment of weakness. Its day 8 now i dont have any other symptoms apart from a little anxiety and hot flushes now and again but i can cope with them but the rls is just the worst thing ive ever experienced in my life. Im never going back now. Oh and while i was out today i booked my self a week in spain in june :-) which has give me something to push for. Hope everyone is well. Jade xxx
 
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