Do benzodiazepines cause addiction as well as physical dependence?

[Rybee]

^^
there's a huge distinction between addiction and dependence.
addiction is a word used to describe a certain set of behaviors..
where the person addicted is motivated to procure and self administer
the substance in order to produce the desired physical and/or psychological effect..
their motivation is the desire to alter their normal physiological state.

someone who is dependent but not addicted is motivated to take the substance in
order to keep their physiological state functioning normally.


you are dependent - you need to keep yourself functioning normally.

i was/am addicted - i dislike the way i function normally and very much prefer to alter it when i am/i was able to.
depending on how long my benzo use lasted in the past..my addiction to the benzos then caused me
to become dependent several times.

i went through a horrible withdrawal from effexor several years ago..and that experience
was enough to finally say no more ssri's. although i wish they did..they just don't work for me..and i end up both physically and psychologically dependent without any improvement in my psychological state whatsoever..
because there are no pleasurable effects i've ever received from any antidepressant..and the withdrawal
is so terrible..i would never become addicted to them.
but the physical and psychological effects of benzos are extremely pleasurable to me..and even though benzo withdrawal is equally as horrible as antidepressant withdrawal - i'm addicted and can therefore feel fairly certain that down the road..i will probably end up dependent on them again.

I can't really add much more than which tokenname has already written. It took me some while to understand the difference between addiction and dependence. I've been dependant on Effexor and Pregabalin, but addicted to Valium.

I needed it, I craved it, I'd do horrific things just to get my fix of it, I'd lie through my teeth to doctors, friends, family.

I'd say with certainty that benzodiazepines can cause addiction. Admittedly I've just quickly flicked through this thread but neversickanymore, I'm gonna go back through and read about the arguments against that you've posted. I didn't even know there was a school of though that thought otherwise.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

People go back to them for the same reason they go back to other drugs that fuck them up, because they are searching for something that thhey can't find within themselves and they have a short memory.

 

[tiger-bunny]

I never used benzos daily but when I got some i would usually end up going on a binge. No stash was really big enough to not get used up in a short amount of time. I think compulsive redosing fits my definition of addiction. Not much different from meth or alcohol for me.

 

[Rebel Maven]

People go back to them for the same reason they go back to other drugs that fuck them up, because they are searching for something that thhey can't find within themselves and they have a short memory.

Ouch! That was brutally true for me.

 

[DrinksWithEvil]

LOL of course benzoz are addicttive andy drug that you take to feel better is addictive...

benzos after about 3 months , you will need to withdrawl from them and its no fun...

 

[mrflowers00]

if you have panic attacks frequently then benzos are addicting in every way possible

 

[TheHighroller]

If you experience any of the symptoms benzos are generally prescribed for an addiction can build in a subtle way.

Somebody in my community was getting there benzos from the street until finding a p-doc who could fill the script - its been a year and there dose steadily increases by the mg. In this case there benzos were prescribed to supress evil, and they claim to experience a "high" unlike that described by others (drunk like symptoms, impulsive decision making, loss of short term memory) but instead a feeling similar to cocaine without the comedown and paranoia. At there position a benzo WD could be fatal.

Experiences and addiction vary from one mental state to another.

 

[phatass]

An example for me of how psychologically addictive benzos are, i used for approx. 4 years, quit for 6 months, then someone gave me 10 tetrazepam because he didn't want them. I took them, and the very next day i called up a doctor and got a box of valium, the day after that i called a different doctor and got another box of valium, that night i was in the ER valium and booze OD.

The "memory cells" in my brain once they had tasted that GABA tingle craaaved for more, in the same way an alcoholic who has not had a drink in years can relapse heavy after just one sip... My behaviour had nothing to do with physical dependance, but the psychological dependance was so strong, my behaviour became that of a full blown addict.

 

[straightrazor]

The position I am arguing here is that once a person is able to make it through the BWS then they will not ever be driven to use again.

I've loved benzos since the first time I tried them. I had a bit over 2 years off a 8 year benzo habit (Ashton taper) and I ended up relapsing. Maybe I was just naturally anxious to begin with, but when people talk about taking opiates for the first time and finally "feeling normal", this was true of me for benzos. Just having that general uncomfortableness I dealt with my entire life melt away was with epitome of euphoria.

Even 2 years off benzos I didn't feel 80% back to my pre-benzo self. Not a single week went by where there wasn't at least 2 days I couldn't sleep at all. Massive anxiety ended up morphing into agoraphobia which is why I intentionally relapsed onto diazepam rather than a stronger benzo because all my history was with stronger and shorter acting benzos. I knew I would have to come off them again eventually so and figured diazepam would be the easiest to deal with.

Long story short, I definitely was/am addicted than rather simply dependent on benzos. Even when I was addicted to multiple substances at once if I only had money to buy either Klonopin or heroin I would of bought the Klonopin every time. I'm hoping this time around to learn some coping mechanisms to help prevent a relapse. I haven't felt "normal" without benzos since I was a 16 and I'm in my thirties now.

Today is day 3 no opiates and day 2 no benzos for me.

 

[Tommyboy]

I got off of benzos around 5 months ago after taking them daily for 8 years, and I didn't consider myself addicted to them although I was most certainly dependent on them. Once I got through the toughest part of the withdrawals I never wanted to experience that again so I had no desire to take them. There was a time between the 2 week and 1 month mark where my anxiety was really bad without them and I felt as though I would never feel normal again without them, so I craved them for therapeutic reasons, but once that passed I was back to being fine without them, and I actually find my anxiety to be in better control without them as they were causing anxiety when it was low in my system, so I wanted off the roller-coaster ride that is benzo dependence.

There was one summer that I abused them heavily, but other than that one summer I just took them as prescribed for the duration of my time being prescribed them. If I didn't have such easy access to them that summer I probably wouldn't have sought them out to abuse, and once that source dried up I didn't look for other means of getting more of them other than what I was prescribed to keep my anxiety and withdrawals at bay.

I view their addiction potential as being similar to that of dissociatives since I think that most people that abuse them do so as a means to escape reality more so than they do in an attempt to achieve euphoria from the drug. So in the absence of physical dependence, I feel that their abuse is mostly a 'phase' that people go through, much like that of DXM. That doesn't mean that it isn't addictive, but I think that most people could take it or leave it if they aren't dependent on them or do not need them for therapeutic reasons.

I think that the age range of those who abuse benzos seems to correlate with the age range of those who are addicted to dissociatives. I find that I read a lot more about those who used to abuse benzos than I do about those who currently do so, with the exception being those who are physically dependent on them already and so may take higher doses than needed. I think that the blackout potential of benzos plays a role in this theory of their abuse being a phase, because it's not a very sustainable addiction since you aren't going to get far in life if you are blacking out all the time, and so I think most people give up on abusing benzos like that at a younger age, hopefully before things get too bad.

 

[tokenname]

if you have panic attacks frequently then benzos are addicting in every way possible

^simple. +1
hope you're hanging in mr.

 

[knightsmith]

The withdrawals can kill, they are a pain. I did a stent, medicinal, when my probs were over I just stopped. I bought them. Now I cant get a proper detox for alcahol, or other medical factors. I have major panic attacks.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Anything can be adittictive...sugar, exercise, other humans, repetitive behaviours...

 

[neversickanymore]

Anything can be adittictive...sugar, exercise, other humans, repetitive behaviours...

sugar, exercise, the sense of belonging or acceptance associated with other humans, sex, all manipulate the vta and dopamine reward pathway so Im not sure if we have yet come up with anything like the the benzos which do not manipulate dopamine in this discussion yet.

Post 17 in this thread contianes a link to a very good book about some of what we are all discussing here and is a really good read for anyone who has some time.

The Brain and Addiction (under construction)

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

sugar, exercise, the sense of belonging or acceptance associated with other humans, sex, all manipulate the vta and dopamine reward pathway so Im not sure if we have yet come up with anything like the the benzos which do not manipulate dopamine in this discussion yet.

Post 17 in this thread contianes a link to a very good book about some of what we are all discussing here and is a really good read for anyone who has some time.

The Brain and Addiction (under construction)

Interesting, will read.

 

[pasha]

sugar, exercise, the sense of belonging or acceptance associated with other humans, sex, all manipulate the vta and dopamine reward pathway so Im not sure if we have yet come up with anything like the the benzos which do not manipulate dopamine in this discussion yet.

Post 17 in this thread contianes a link to a very good book about some of what we are all discussing here and is a really good read for anyone who has some time.

The Brain and Addiction (under construction)

this neglects the implication of glutaminergic neurotransmission in addictive behavior which is as important as dopamine, and interrelated to it. i'm not disagreeing that benzodiazepines may not be involved in addiction, but they do manipulate glutamate which is heavily involved at VAT. i wonder what we can deduce from this.

 

[Mr. Tambourine Man]

The position I am arguing here is that once a person is able to make it through the BWS then they will not ever be driven to use again.

That has not been my experience. I was dependent on clonazepam for about a year, and then kicked on my own. In spite of the miserable WD, when a friend offered me one, I took it immediately. Then I found a source for etizolam, and binged on that for brief periods over the last six months (in retrospect, each binge ended with a period of heightened anxiety and panic attacks).

If you have anxiety, you remember fondly how you felt on benzos. The world seems "safer", and your fears don't really seem important. You remember feeling in control of your anxiety, rather than vis versa. That's a very seductive feeling. If you enjoy the high of GABAergics, the temptation to use again is doubly powerful.

The circumstances that caused you to use in the first place will make you likely to use again.

 

[straightrazor]

That has not been my experience. I was dependent on clonazepam for about a year, and then kicked on my own. In spite of the miserable WD, when a friend offered me one, I took it immediately. Then I found a source for etizolam, and binged on that for brief periods over the last six months (in retrospect, each binge ended with a period of heightened anxiety and panic attacks).

If you have anxiety, you remember fondly how you felt on benzos. The world seems "safer", and your fears don't really seem important. You remember feeling in control of your anxiety, rather than vis versa. That's a very seductive feeling. If you enjoy the high of GABAergics, the temptation to use again is doubly powerful.

The circumstances that caused you to use in the first place will make you likely to use again.

This has been my experience as well. It kinda surprises me people even question the addictive potential of benzodiazepenes. I have spent nearly half my life struggling with with benzo addiction. Over the years I destroyed pretty much every relationship I had as well as spending a ridiculous amount of money on top of my doctor shopping endeavors. Ever woke up in jail not remembering what happened? I have, multiple times. Ever called a friend post blackout and had no idea while they were completely disgusted with you? Seized out while driving? Check. Seized out while not driving? Check. I've pretty much destroyed my memory, but literally every single one of the ultra low points in my life can be traced *directly* to benzodiazpene abuse. Even though I identified this trend many years ago I continued to use despite literally ruining my life. If that isn't addiction I really don't know what is. I could write a book about the pains of benzo withdrawal but it was never painful enough for me to say "I'm never using again". If anything, I just used withdrawal as an excuse to eat more benzos. Problem solved, right?

While it is certainly less common for people to get addicted to benzos compared to opiates it really has to do with each individual persons brain chemistry. We all get off on different things. I fell in love the first time I ever took a benzo and felt the anxiety I had dealt with everyday of my life lift away. I felt like "this is what normal people feel like everyday". I pretty much planned on staying for benzos for the rest of my life at that point, and over 15 years later I only have about 2.5 years clean time *total* from all my benzo kicks combined. Even when I was locked up I remained on benzos. Really, the only reason I ever even got substantial clean time was at the end of an 8 year run and at the point I was eating handfuls of pills at a time and they just weren't effective anymore. During my 2 years off benzos I was still abusing other gabaergics like GBL/GHB and phenibut. I've only ever met a handful of people in my life that had a benzo problem on the same level I did and I have spent the majority of my life surrounded by drug addicts.

Today is day 9 off of diazepam (I relapsed onto diazepam rather than more potent benzos intentionally) and it is pretty much the first time in my life I haven't craved benzos. I have no idea why. Even though this is true right now I am worried that once I have to deal with a particular stressful time those cravings are going to come right back. Right now I am just taking it day by day.

 

[Allein]

Putting aside my strong desire to get into the semantics of the definations of addiction as I'm sure YMMV, these days I seem to be unable to use almost anything without it becomming at habitual if not an addiction.

I've never been a big opiate user but I had a terrible 2-3 years struggling with Diazepam, all illictly sourced in stupid quatities from foriegn sources.

Benzos helped my anxiety, made me forget about my depression and resolved insomnia, not to mention working so well with a growing problem with alcohol.

In the UK the scripting of any Benzos for anything other than a few weeks course is rare even more so if you have a record of drug abuse so i was reluctant to seek a professional taper via my doctor as my use was well into 3 digits (mgs) daily and I doubted a script would be provided at the level I would have felot comfortable.

Via this site and the net i found a fantastic resourse for information on the issue in the Heather Ashton Manual and set about tapering off. I bounced between alcohol, benzos and both for a good couple of years and tapered 3 times, the last time being nearly 2 years ago and sometime after quitting alcohol. I have occationaly taken both Diazempam and Alprazolam since but not fore more than a few days in a few months.

For me the psycological depenance was worse than the drawn out tapering, I found the loss very much like alcohol ( not suprising I guess given the chemistry ) but the removal of the constant need to be sure I had a supply in itself helped some of the anxiety, withdrawal symptoms are one thing but having a full blown siezure could have had devistating effects on my personnel and profesional life.

I'll assume for some Benzos can be used to good effect in moderation but for me they are a train wreck waiting to happen.

 

[neversickanymore]

here is something interesting I found on alcohol and GABA the main transmitter associated with benzos.

1.2b GABA Receptors and µ-Opioid Receptors

In the VTA, the dopaminergic neurons are regulated by the tonic innervations of the GABAergic neurons. The inhibitory postsynaptic potential (IPSP) is known to be primarily mediated by the GABAA receptors and some inhibition effect by the GABAB receptors.[2][12] Alcohol addiction is associated with the endogenous opioid system and with exposure, it alters the GABAergic neurons.[13] Upon exposure of alcohol, it inhibits synaptic transmission of GABAergic neurons to dopaminergic neurons by presynaptic mechanisms. Theile et al. have shown that with acute ethanol injections in the experimental rats and mice, there was an increase in dopaminergic neuron firing rate in the VTA.[12] This showed that ethanol modulated GABAergic transmission; and with obstruction in the GABAergic innervation, it enhanced the activity of VTA dopaminergic neurons.[2]

To further acknowledge the function of the GABA receptors and its effect on the dopaminergic neurons, electrophysiological recordings were performed using picrotoxin (GABAA antagonist) and muscimol (GABAA agonist).[12] With picrotoxin, it showed a significant increase in the firing rate of the dopaminergic neurons, displaying a disinhibitory effect. On the other hand, muscimol considerably inhibited dopaminergic neuron firing rate. Additionally, they have also examined the effect of GABAB receptor function on the dopaminergic neurons in the VTA by using SCH0911 (GABAB antagonist).[12] Although SCH0911 did have an effect, it only moderately increased the firing rate. It was concluded that by having both the antagonists picrotoxin and SCH0911, it would have a complete restriction of GABA resulting in a transcendent increase in dopamine firing rate.[12]

Since alcohol addiction is associated with the endogenous opioid system, it has an effect on its receptor identified as µ-opioid receptors (MORs) in the VTA. It is mostly expressed in the GABAergic neurons and with activation of this receptor, it causes hyperpolarization.[2] With ethanol exposure, it activates MORs by enhanced ß-endorphin release, resulting in inhibition of GABAergic neurons and lowering inhibitory postsynaptic current (IPSC) frequencies.[2] In Guan and Ye., they investigated the effect of MORs activation contributing to the hindrance of GABA long-term potentiation (LTPGABA) when it is exposed to ethanol.[13] By using high frequency stimulation (HFS), naloxone (MORs competitive antagonist) and DAMGO (MORs agonist) were applied and the electrophysiological recordings of LTPGABA were determined. With the presence of ethanol, naloxone with HFS exhibited normal levels of LTPGABA.[13] However with DAMGO, HFS failed to induce LTPGABA, suggest a strong suppression of IPSCs.[2]

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