Ketamine's Antidepressant effects - NMDA antagonist

[nAON]

You sure the seizures were directly related to ketamine use? Haven't heard of that happening before.

And receptor potentiation tends to undo itself over time, I wouldn't recommend self-medicating (though I don't really know anything about theanine specifically).

 

[endotropic]

nAON: PMID: 21669235

Ketamine at 120 mg IV for treatment resistant depression induced focal seizures one week post-administration for me.
No prior anxiety attacks or partial complex seizures.

Intuitively, this would seem to indicate AMPA potentiation. Not entirely sure how to reverse this, though.

The seizures are not intractable and respond to AED and benzo; however, would L-theanine (an AMPA inverse agonist?) be of value?

Is there precedence for Ketamine causing this kind of seizure in recreational users?

It would be very strange if Ketamine caused this effect when used as an antidepressant but not as a recreational drug. It's possible though I really don't know.

 

[cyanide_sunshine]

Is there precedence for Ketamine causing this kind of seizure in recreational users?

It would be very strange if Ketamine caused this effect when used as an antidepressant but not as a recreational drug. It's possible though I really don't know.

Not that I've seen.

Case reports of anesthesia-induced ketamine seizure; n=30 ketamine in epileptics no effect; prevention of status epilepticus; lowering of seizure threshold during ECT. I'd be wary of a paradoxical report such as mine, since that's well in line with recreational doses (120 mg over 80 minutes).

 

[arctica]

Not that I've seen.

Case reports of anesthesia-induced ketamine seizure; n=30 ketamine in epileptics no effect; prevention of status epilepticus; lowering of seizure threshold during ECT. I'd be wary of a paradoxical report such as mine, since that's well in line with recreational doses (120 mg over 80 minutes).

Could you explain what you mean by a focal seizure? What were the symptoms you experienced? It sounds like a lot of focal seizure symptoms are not that far off from feelings caused by ketamine itself ("a wave-like sensation in the head; in the temporal lobe, a feeling of déjà vu; in the parietal lobe, a numbness or tingling; and in the occipital lobe, visual disturbance or hallucination") I happened across these comments the other day regarding ketamine at anesthetic doses, suggesting that tonic-clonic movements are sometimes caused by ketamine:

Purposeless and tonic-clonic movements of extremities may occur during the course of anesthesia. These movements do not imply a light plane and are not indicative of the need for additional doses of ketamine.

There are plenty of references in the medical literature to "ketamine emergence" - turns out the K-hole you experience while coming down from an anesthetic blast of K makes people lose their shit sometimes (especially children). It's counteracted with diazepam or other benzos occasionally.

I saw a paper earlier this year using prophylactic Haldol for emergence agitation in pediatric ketamine anesthesia.

 

[ebola?]

Prophylactic haldol seems strongly contraindicated for anti-depressant regimens.

ebola

 

[nAON]

Pediatric use of ketamine as an anaesthetic is pretty dodgy.. I hear that it is used often only because they do not require an anaesthatist to supervise. There's a difference to being a depressed adult knowing full-well about the treatment you're about to receive, and a child that has no idea why their mind is suddenly fucked.

 

[sekio]

I think trying to do emergency surgery on a concious and alert child is probably the greater of the two evils.

 

[arctica]

I was under the impression that they like to use ketamine in pediatric and elderly populations (and on the battlefield) because it's less likely to cause respiratory depression, which outweighs the risk of possible emergence agitation. They are using it for ECT anesthesia at a hospital near here.

 

[SONN]

I have used theanine and ketamine at the same time, could anyone make any speculations as to whether or not that was a good idea?

 

[nAON]

I think trying to do emergency surgery on a concious and alert child is probably the greater of the two evils.

Forgot to mention I was referring more to regular surgeries - in particular in cancer treatments where anaesthesia is done relatively regularly, you end up with kids getting pumped full of ketamine far more than they should be. Though bear in mind I haven't worked in a hospital before, this opinion is based mostly on the rantings of people I know that have

 

[ebola?]

To what extent is this due to a paucity of anaesthesiologists rather than situations where administering respiratory-depressing cocktails would be dangerous?

ebola

 

[cyanide_sunshine]

No myoclonic jerks temporally to the administration, those tend to abate when the K wears off (within 2 hours). I have fulfilled my biannual post quota I think.

 

[nAON]

To what extent is this due to a paucity of anaesthesiologists rather than situations where administering respiratory-depressing cocktails would be dangerous?

ebola

Out of my depth 8(


p.s, does anyone know if other channel blockers such as mementine or MK801 have any efficacy as antidepressants?

 

[arctica]

p.s, does anyone know if other channel blockers such as mementine or MK801 have any efficacy as antidepressants?

I get the same antidepressant effect from ketamine that I get from nitrous oxide. Noticing the effect from nitrous was what made me try to get a script for ketamine, because I was pretty sure it would also work. The effects from ketamine seem stronger and easier to integrate into daily existence, and I don't feel as nauseated/woozy afterwards.

 

[nAON]

I get the same antidepressant effect from ketamine that I get from nitrous oxide. Noticing the effect from nitrous was what made me try to get a script for ketamine, because I was pretty sure it would also work. The effects from ketamine seem stronger and easier to integrate into daily existence, and I don't feel as nauseated/woozy afterwards.

NOS is a bit of a weird one though I think, anyone know the exact mechanism by which it exerts its NMDA antaogonistic effect? It also hits loads of other random receptors too so may be hard to discern what's doing what.