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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Official Paedo Discussion Megathread v2

Perhaps not an inevitable consequence of status but going by current events and indeed historical events, a probable consequence of status.

And of course I don't mean you have to be a superstar, status in a power relation can just be that you dominate another human being or three for some reason.

Oh yeah, I don't deny that social structures have their part to play and perhaps encourage such transgressions on a subliminal (and not so subliminal) level. The psychological makeup of the individual is a central factor though. Don't be so fucking Marxist. ;)
 
I don't see how understanding is going to prevent these events from happening, thats not to say that there should be no attempt to understand it.

Other than a 1984 style big brother setup how would you begin to prevent it?
 
Is that marxist :D yes I know it's marxist. But he wasn't wrong about a lot of stuff.

OK so to incorporate psychology, maybe it's the combination of status and perhaps having a fucked up childhood. Maybe he gets to act out abuse that was inflicted on him.

@scotchmist by changing social structures, and concomitantly changing social consciousness. Like how we no longer doff our caps in obeisance to feudal overlords. Much.
 
I don't see how understanding is going to prevent these events from happening, thats not to say that there should be no attempt to understand it.

Other than a 1984 style big brother setup how would you begin to prevent it?
If we know what combination of events cause a person to behave in a certain way, we can take steps to minimise the probability of such things happening. For instance, as I alluded to above, I firmly believe that a proper programme of sex and relationship education beginning in primary school would do more good than harm -- and that more harm than good comes for want of such. Kids think the concept of their parents having sex is icky, parents think the concept of their kids having sex is icky, yet we all carry on pretending that it doesn't happen or something and getting all surprised when yes, actually, it does happen. How many of you have never had a baby scare? I said relationship education as well. Learning that there are good and bad relationships, and sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between liking something and not liking it. About imbalances of power and how to know when someone is taking advantage of a position of power they hold over you -- or if it's you taking advantage of power over them. And that there's no shame in having fun for one, and indeed sometimes it's even preferrable.

The fact that most people manage to muddle through somehow in spite of having such a totally f^(ked-up attitude to sex is no reason to carry on that way. So, as a start, I propose ground-up reform of sex education. Bring up a generation of kids without sexual hang-ups, who will become a generation of well-adjusted adults with a healthy attitude towards puberty, masturbation, sex, contraception, relationships, pregnancy, abortion, informed consent, sexuality, gender and all such matters; and in turn will go on to raise their own children the same way, with frank discussions rather than sniggers and taboos.

Central to all this is understanding the need for informed consent and why rape is bad. There are basically three types of people: Those who would never rape, those who will always rape, those who are more likely to be rapists knowing why rape is bad, and those who are less likely to rape if they understand why rape is bad. It is my contention that the fourth group outnumber the third; and so, by not discussing openly why rape is bad, we are allowing more of them to become rapists than we are preventing from the third group by suppressing such discussion.

The worst that can happen is that I am wrong, and the experiment will have to be abandoned if and only if, but in any case as soon as, it becomes clear that it is doing more harm than good. Even then, we will have additional data that we can use to our advantage.
 
If we know what combination of events cause a person to behave in a certain way, we can take steps to minimise the probability of such things happening. For instance, as I alluded to above, I firmly believe that a proper programme of sex and relationship education beginning in primary school would do more good than harm -- and that more harm than good comes for want of such. Kids think the concept of their parents having sex is icky, parents think the concept of their kids having sex is icky, yet we all carry on pretending that it doesn't happen or something and getting all surprised when yes, actually, it does happen. How many of you have never had a baby scare? I said relationship education as well. Learning that there are good and bad relationships, and sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between liking something and not liking it. About imbalances of power and how to know when someone is taking advantage of a position of power they hold over you -- or if it's you taking advantage of power over them. And that there's no shame in having fun for one, and indeed sometimes it's even preferrable.

The fact that most people manage to muddle through somehow in spite of having such a totally f^(ked-up attitude to sex is no reason to carry on that way. So, as a start, I propose ground-up reform of sex education. Bring up a generation of kids without sexual hang-ups, who will become a generation of well-adjusted adults with a healthy attitude towards puberty, masturbation, sex, contraception, relationships, pregnancy, abortion, informed consent, sexuality, gender and all such matters; and in turn will go on to raise their own children the same way, with frank discussions rather than sniggers and taboos.

Central to all this is understanding the need for informed consent and why rape is bad. There are basically three types of people: Those who would never rape, those who will always rape, those who are more likely to be rapists knowing why rape is bad, and those who are less likely to rape if they understand why rape is bad. It is my contention that the fourth group outnumber the third; and so, by not discussing openly why rape is bad, we are allowing more of them to become rapists than we are preventing from the third group by suppressing such discussion.

The worst that can happen is that I am wrong, and the experiment will have to be abandoned if and only if, but in any case as soon as, it becomes clear that it is doing more harm than good. Even then, we will have additional data that we can use to our advantage.
Well you've sold it to me Julie :)
 
He enjoyed it because some people are hardwired that way. Nature, nurture, whatever. What makes the difference is that he acted on his hardwiring.
 
We all enjoy transgression, being naughty.

I think all this speculation (and I'm guilty of it) is missing the point which we got to earlier that first we need to understand then we can move on to prescribing remedies.
 
Well ..... Let me put it this way. Suppose it was a close member of your family in the position where Ian Watkins is in right now. And if it just wouldn't be a close family member in that position, why wouldn't it be? What would be different? Genetics, culture, what?

Because if we don't understand that, then we are condemning our children to suffer the same fate.

Some people probably are just evil, and will do bad things irrespective of what you do. I think I have mentioned before that in extreme situations, obnoxious behaviour can actually have a survival advantage; the strategic sacrifice of a travelling companion can improve your own chances of passing on your genes. But I think there are a lot of people who do bad things for a reason; and if that reason can be identified and avoided, or a more benign way of defeating the urge found, then we owe it to those people whose lives we could save.

It is unpleasant to admit the possibility that you might even have a dark side at all, so I can sort of see why so many choose the intellectually lazy path of Not Having To Think About It. But that's really just dodging the problem; which is still going to be there if and when you ever stop ignoring it, or for those who come after you.

The hypocrisy of newspapers such as the Daily Mail in this matter (sex with a woman who is 15 years, 364 days old = bad, as in hanging, flogging, burning-in-hell type bad; sex with a woman who is 16 years, 1 day old = get in there my son!) beggars belief.
 
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