Challenge for bluelighters in recovery: Learning Assertive Communication

[Jabberwocky]

I have a challenge for the bluelighters in recovery from drugs, or who would otherwise like to have a go at this; can you identify some communicative behaviour of yours that fit into the passive, aggressive, or assertive communication groups and/or find a way that you can improve your communication?

I'm not sure how people will go getting their heads around the three types of communication modelled by psychologists, but I will do my best to define what each is.

Firstly we have passive communication (regarded as unhelpful to ourselves and others):

- when we take a passive stance to our needs, feelings, rights, and opinions we avoid conflict at all times and generally try to please others; in the short term this can lead to reduction of anxiety, avoiding guilt, and a sense of martyrdom; in the long term there may be a continuing loss of self-esteem, and increased internal tensions leading to unethical behaviour as a result of stress or feelings of low self-worth.


Secondly we have aggressive communication (also regarded as unhelpful to ourselves and others):

- when we take an aggressive stance to our needs, feelings, rights, and opinions we are expressing "my needs are more important than yours and I am ignoring or dismissing yours"; in the short term we may have a sense of releasing tension or feeling more powerful; in the long-term there may be some guilt and shame, putting the responsibility for anger onto others, and resentment.


Being assertive is being both helpful and honest. We should ask for what we want/need openly and directly, expressing and respecting the rights and needs of others, and expecting others to do the same (sadly this is not always the case). If we are assertive we cannot expect others to magically know what we need/want, we cannot violate people’s rights, and we should not avoid difficult issues.



Can you think of a way in which you have communicated today, and then reflect on this, then brainstorm a way in which you can improve on it?

I hope this to be a useful exercise, although I do not expect that many, if any bluelighters will take part. Nonetheless, I will put this out there and see how we go with it...

 

[neversickanymore]

I have chose to prohibit communication with someone I like for awhile because I didn't feel they were not considering/meeting my needs... so i guess I am expressing my needs with a total disregard for theirs. But in reality fuck them.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I have chose to prohibit communication with someone I like for awhile because I didn't feel they were not considering/meeting my needs... so i guess I am expressing my needs with a total disregard for theirs. But in reality fuck them.

I believe that would fall under passive-aggressive, but I can relate to expressing my emotion through communication, especially in that same way in past situations.

Here is a flow diagram of what is modelled, often, by psychologists working with people recovering from dependence:
Situation --> Thought <--> emotion <--> behaviour

Situation, I, for the most part, have no control over. The others; thoughts, emotions, and behaviour I do believe I have control over, so I am trying to understand how this applies to me.

I'm currently working on my assertive skills, mostly because a lot of my past communication has fallen under the passive, aggressive, or passive aggressive umbrella of the model...I accept the model as useful and I therefore attempt to apply it to self-improvement.

Are there any other bluelighters up to the challenge?

 

[neversickanymore]

I love that and it was really powerful when I realized that the thought precedes the emotion.

Our lives are how we percieve it. Our perceptions are based on our thoughts. We control our thoughts. Therefore we control how our life is. You are very correct that we dont control the vast majority of life but we control how we choose to percieve it so we are really in control of how our life is.


And I don't think my actions towards this person are passive aggressive I just needed to have this person out of my life until they make the changes needed so they can be a positive aspect in it. I'm not trying to force them to act a certain way but I am excluding them from my life if they act in a certain way.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I love that and it was really powerful when I realized that the thought precedes the emotion.

Our lives are how we percieve it. Our perceptions are based on our thoughts. We control our thoughts. Therefore we control how our life is. You are very correct that we dont control the vast majority of life but we control how we choose to percieve it so we are really in control of how our life is.


And I don't think my actions towards this person are passive aggressive I just needed to have this person out of my life until they make the changes needed so they can be a positive aspect in it. I'm not trying to force them to act a certain way but I am excluding them from my life if they act in a certain way.

I hear ya!

As humans we generalise the information we perceive quite often, so I don't have a problem attempting to use these psychological models and applying them to my own life. They are being quite helpful, in fact!

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Thanks for posting this.

 

[phatass]

Very well worded, it sums up a lot of things in my current relationship.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thanks for posting this.

You're welcome, most of it has come from learning through interaction with my friends studying psychology, and some further research, finding what helps me with my health.

Very well worded, it sums up a lot of things in my current relationship.

Thanks, I'm glad you can relate. It is a constant process learning about our limitations.

For the sake of helping others I will give another example:
Often, because I took and took when I was dependent on my DOC (drug of choice, being opiates), I would feel down on myself for thoughts of being selfish. So when I was well (not dependent on a substance aka in recovery, or even most of the time when I was dependent on opiates) I often gave when I could not afford to, that is I would allow people to "borrow" money off me (that, more often than not, was not repaid), lent things (that often were not returned), would give as much as I could until I ran out of money. This falls under passive communication, that is I was not asserting that I could not afford to be giving out my money and property to others, especially when I knew damn well there was a likelihood that it would not be returned...I rationalised this with "what goes around comes around". However, I have been learning to be assertive and to say no when the situation is presented; I have control over my behaviour, and I have control over my thoughts, feelings, and communication with other people. Saying no is something I am still learning how to do and that I am working on. This is also known as developing boundaries.

 

[neversickanymore]

I noticed your posting style.. I like it.. is there a name for it and what is its goal?

 

[Jabberwocky]

I noticed your posting style.. I like it.. is there a name for it and what is its goal?

Do you mean a name for the posting (writing) style? I like to call it stream of consciousness, forum version

See: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/695075-Stream-of-Consciousness

I tried to explain the psychology and literary aspects in that thread, not sure how well I explained it, but I think you'll get the point :D

We can all learn from each other, by having access to BL, and each poster can play a part by interacting to what I think is a collective, cumulative, interpersonal knowledge (or wisdom, if you like ) base that either we or others can refer to for something to read; a person may even learn from what they read, had they no knowledge of the subject matter beforehand (or even some knowledge and would like to improve on it), if they so choose :D

 

[neversickanymore]

There is an amazing thing that I feel relates to your idea there. There was a man who would travel with the fairs back in the day and he would run a thing were people would guess the weight of a large object. Of course people would guess all over the place. The amazing thing about what happened is when they took the average of all the guesses it was almost exactly correct. Im talking with in a few pounds of correct on things that weighed thousands of pounds and this same thing happened over and over and over. I often think about this in relation to a thread. We all have our opinions but it seems that the correct answer becomes apparent from what we all post.

I will see if I can dig the story up. and I'm going to check out the link now

 

[Jabberwocky]

I get your drift, neversickanymore, and I just want to say that I'm down with it, bro!

Here's are two quotes for you that I think are relevant and suitable to this "drift":

"Happiness cannot be traveled to, owned, earned, or worn. It is the spiritual experience of living every minute with love, grace & gratitude." - Denis Waitley

AND

"Dont be afraid to stand for what you believe in, even if that means standing alone..."

I dunno about you, but I would stand alone for what I believe, not matter what. The thing is, I find people through bluelight that would stand with me

 

[neversickanymore]

Nice.. really powerful statements both of them. thanks SM

 

[ad lib]

^ I agree, very powerful

 

[88dood88]

Passive is a great way to describe me. Ever since I was a kid I always let people walk all over me, I was the typical doormat and I would agree with things that clearly were against my own beliefs solely just to get someones approval. It's a shitty way of living but after a lifetime of living like this I'm honestly not sure how to ever break it. Its a damn good thing I was a large kid because I would've gotten bullied a lot worse than I did in high school - I remember constantly having the nervous smile on my face, even when people would make fun of me, because I just desperately wanted them to like me and I thought if I was 'nice' enough that they would stop treating me that way. I always wish I was assertive but as soon as the moment comes I end up falling flat, which like you said only decreases self esteem and continues the cycle. I'll be honest, Im afraid of what people think of me and I'm afraid of people in general. Even though I'm 6'3 and 215lbs and fairly lean muscle, I still feel like an oversized kid most of the time

 

[Jabberwocky]

I was talking to my mother earlier. I said something along these lines "I know that I have done some things that have upset you, but can we please communicate in an assertive manner, rather than being aggressive and passive-aggressive".

My mother then said something along the lines of "you have a problem and you are not well".

I replied "that was before mum, I am now clean and working on making sure my alcohol consumption does not become an issue like my opiate dependence".

My mother then said something like "go away, I'm busy, I don't have time to talk to you".

I replied something like "I understand and I will leave you alone, but next time you have some constructive criticism please don't say it, then make it impossible to talk about by saying you are busy straight after saying it".

She said "good, leave me alone".

I walked away.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Here is a flow diagram of what is modelled, often, by psychologists working with people recovering from dependence:
Situation --> Thought <--> emotion <--> behaviour

Situation, I, for the most part, have no control over. The others; thoughts, emotions, and behaviour I do believe I have control over, so I am trying to understand how this applies to me.

I'm currently working on my assertive skills, mostly because a lot of my past communication has fallen under the passive, aggressive, or passive aggressive umbrella of the model...I accept the model as useful and I therefore attempt to apply it to self-improvement.

Are there any other bluelighters up to the challenge?

Call it coincedence that I visited the sober area for the first time and found myself drawn to your thread soul mate. My communication skills are so underdeveloped and totally in disbalance with all the knowledge I have on it. The model you present is very usefull and called the four g's here (translated it means the same as yours again thanks for reminding me)

I feel I am very passive-aggresive, although i could be misjudging off course. My case I get very sarcastic and or edgy when my feelings are hurt. This is accompanied by negativety and depressive thoughts. It's a typical which came first the chicken or the egg style story, me being the egg and my gf the chicken. But whenever she uses aggressive communication or talks down to me i go flip into thhe above mode.

Vica versa when I am tired or had to much input I get rude, think f words sarcasm and getting loud like monkeys do. She turns to aggresive methods sooner or later. She might start very considered trying to help me, which is exactly the opposite of what I need at that moment.


A good piece on psycholegy about partners i read explained with great accurence the differences between male and female in commucation. I will try to look it up as I feel it could complement your thread. For now I will leave it so it can take some time to sink in. Till later


The piece I was reffering to is from Pat Love, could only find to be paid for thingy in English so I wont link it. But her intro says a lot:

"How to Improve Your Marriage without Talking About It: Finding Love beyond Words reveals the stunning truth about marital happiness: Love is not about better communication; it's about connection. If you feel connected, it's easy to communicate. If you feel disconnected, it's almost impossible, no matter how carefully you choose your words. "

It's based around the differences between men and women solely and the problems that arise in the resulting discommunication. Something that my main area where things get stuck over and over again. Especially gven the fact that the more often a certain situation occurs and the path of discommunication unconsiously is followed. The more it gets imbedded in our brain and becomes am automatic response (Situation --> Thought <--> emotion <--> behaviour).

 

[sam05]

this thead makes for interesting reading. when i think about myself, and reflect on how my conversations with the few people in my life go, i think im not assertive enough. i dont really know how to make people understand what i want, and i get frustrated and start thinking negatively. i have slightly slurred speach and have to really focus on speaking clearly and loudly so people arent like 'what?'. i can also be a bit negative and find it hard to be positive, i dont know why this is but i simply cant give someone a compliment, id rather make fun of how they look or laugh at them. idk i just find it funny in a way. anyway look forward to further posts in this thread and maybe i can learn a bit from it.

 

[caseface99]

I went to a new meeting tonight and it happened to be the home group of the guy who taught the Assertive Communication class when i was in rehab. Cool guy, I actually learned a LOT from his classes and honestly if I hadn't then I would have probably hurt my ex when we broke up. Instead I worded things correctly, in an assertive and non aggressive manner.

Communication is definitely key in life if you want to build lasting relationships with people. Whether it be friendships, business relationships, romantic relationships, whatever. Communication is huge.

 

[Just A Guy]

You're welcome, most of it has come from learning through interaction with my friends studying psychology, and some further research, finding what helps me with my health.

Thanks, I'm glad you can relate. It is a constant process learning about our limitations.

For the sake of helping others I will give another example:
Often, because I took and took when I was dependent on my DOC (drug of choice, being opiates), I would feel down on myself for thoughts of being selfish. So when I was well (not dependent on a substance aka in recovery, or even most of the time when I was dependent on opiates) I often gave when I could not afford to, that is I would allow people to "borrow" money off me (that, more often than not, was not repaid), lent things (that often were not returned), would give as much as I could until I ran out of money. This falls under passive communication, that is I was not asserting that I could not afford to be giving out my money and property to others, especially when I knew damn well there was a likelihood that it would not be returned...I rationalised this with "what goes around comes around". However, I have been learning to be assertive and to say no when the situation is presented; I have control over my behaviour, and I have control over my thoughts, feelings, and communication with other people. Saying no is something I am still learning how to do and that I am working on. This is also known as developing boundaries.

I've been right there with you, different substance, similar mindset. Thought-provoking, challenging subject here.

Concerning how I communicate with myself when I'm dealing with my financial situation, I'm very passive.