-
SIED Moderators: Genetic Freak | Serotonin101
no effect with 5k+ testosterone count
- Thread starter adsfg
- Start date
English would be a good start.
powerclean
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2012
- Messages
- 34
i wanna know how old you are kid. i wish it was as simple as that. but the ester come first then the testosterone if you cant break down the ester or somethin the test never gets released into the blood stream.
I also wanna know why you cant feel test till like 3 or 4 weeks but levels come sky high hours after the injection.
tell me why i dont respond to alcohol (u wont find the answer on wikipedia)
why do i respond well to precocet but not to hydrocodone.
1. less private questions, considered old by this community.
2. no no, the testosterone is the base, and the ester allows your body not to recognize it until the ester breaks off, which is a natural occurrence that happens no matter what.
3. 3 to 4 weeks of what? your not making sense see, it all depends. only way to get testosterone in your body in a few hours is testosterone suspension.. very rare and its crystals of testosterone, hurts like fuck. everything your saying about how testosterone works doesn't make sense and shows your lack of knowledge on how the body works.
4. wiki is wrong all the time, its only ok for general knowledge, not actual real facts. its what people think is right. thats doesn't mean the experts in that field agree that public perception is true, alot of that is false information. like watching a movie and they slit their wrist sideways instead of length ways... its insulting my intelligence on the subject.
5. addiction is a bitch.
2. no no, the testosterone is the base, and the ester allows your body not to recognize it until the ester breaks off, which is a natural occurrence that happens no matter what.
3. 3 to 4 weeks of what? your not making sense see, it all depends. only way to get testosterone in your body in a few hours is testosterone suspension.. very rare and its crystals of testosterone, hurts like fuck. everything your saying about how testosterone works doesn't make sense and shows your lack of knowledge on how the body works.
4. wiki is wrong all the time, its only ok for general knowledge, not actual real facts. its what people think is right. thats doesn't mean the experts in that field agree that public perception is true, alot of that is false information. like watching a movie and they slit their wrist sideways instead of length ways... its insulting my intelligence on the subject.
5. addiction is a bitch.
I see what you're saying, but honestly no. Fuck that. He doesn't deserve anything less, not with his attitude. Sorry if this disappoints you (honestly), but yeah I'm only young and I can already say I'm sick of arrogant smart asses like him who think they know everything yet couldn't possibly convey even the most basic of information in a way we could comprehend.
He's been corrected and informed multiple times as to why he's wrong in a respectable way, with scientific fact to back it up, yet he repeatedly refuses to accept this information and instead provides a poorly structured immature broscience rebuttal every time. Even if I did have hope for him as I believe you do, it'd be completely lost.
He's been corrected and informed multiple times as to why he's wrong in a respectable way, with scientific fact to back it up, yet he repeatedly refuses to accept this information and instead provides a poorly structured immature broscience rebuttal every time. Even if I did have hope for him as I believe you do, it'd be completely lost.
There's more testosterone in Propionate 78.8% to account for it lighter ester weight than cypionate 65.8%.....
powerclean
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2012
- Messages
- 34
man were not even talking about tesosterone its about esters and there structure and how they can effect people differently.
i was not supporting wikipedia, i was saying your reading the shit off wikipedia and iam the one who is going against wikipedia and you seem confused cause what iam saying goes against wikipedia.
i was not supporting wikipedia, i was saying your reading the shit off wikipedia and iam the one who is going against wikipedia and you seem confused cause what iam saying goes against wikipedia.
I love people who boycott wikipedia and refuse to accept any information on there as even remotely factual...even worse are the people who feel the need to rag on it and point out they feel this way. Like fucking vegans.
Wikipedia is a perfectly good source of factual information, AS LONG AS THE REFERENCE SOURCE FOR THE PIECE OF INFORMATION YOU'RE TAKING FROM IT IS CITED AND IS ACCURATE.
Wikipedia is not a credible or acceptable reference for factual information; the source of that information however is (most of the time)
Wikipedia is a perfectly good source of factual information, AS LONG AS THE REFERENCE SOURCE FOR THE PIECE OF INFORMATION YOU'RE TAKING FROM IT IS CITED AND IS ACCURATE.
Wikipedia is not a credible or acceptable reference for factual information; the source of that information however is (most of the time)
Neoprimitive
Bluelight Crew
Exactly. research research research. It is the same with an article in a medical journal; yes you get a bit of info but the cited source material is what you really what, gives a broader more in depth and informed unbiased source of info then say the cliffs notes of some ones article or wiki entry.
I've already had input on esters, but for your benefit I'll re-post:
The esters attached to the testosterone molecule are all made of the same basic elements, Carbon Hydrogen and Oxygen. Just about the only difference is the length of the ester in terms of the number of carbon atoms it contains. The carbon atoms form the 'backbone' of the ester with little hydrogen atoms poking off it, A basic Hydrocarbon structure. Basically an acid, the carboxylic acid is added to the alcohol group on the testosterone molecule to form a bond. This bond between the testosterone molecule and the acid is called an ester bond so technically when we refer to the "ester" we are referring to the carboxylic acid part of the molecule.
There are two types of enzymes which can cleave this bond, esterases and hydrolases(sp?) they can remove any type of ester whether it be prop, enanth or cyp. This is because the enzymes target the 'ester bond' so regardless of how long the carboxylic acid group is or its composition the bond is the same for each ester of testosterone. I don't know how correct my assumption is because I couldn't find much research on the matter but what I assume is that this is why time to reach the peak concentration of testosterone in the blood is the same regardless of ester length. The length of the ester doesn't determine the speed at which the ester is cleaved off the testosterone molecule but influences its solubility, so longer esters mean that it takes longer for the molecule to get absorbed into the blood stream where it can be exposed to the enzymes which remove the ester.
To be more precise: When in aqueous environment (away from oil, and depending on where injected, intramuscular fat) the ester is hydrolyzed yielding free steroid that is quickly taken up into circulation, where is diffuses cellular membrane, binds receptor, triggers response...
To re-iterate on esters and effects on different people: Typically any ester, administered in an appropriate dose, over the appropriate half-life time, should deliver the testosterone in a similar way and should differ very little in rate of metabolization..
To effect unnecessary sides from any esterified compound: You'll see more aromatization with higher fluctuation (less frequent injections than half-life) with any ester.
As I've mentioned previously, injection frequency in relation to a compounds half-life, effect sides to a greater degree than esters themselves...!!!!!!!!.. in most cases
sorry to bump an old thread up but I am in the same boat as the OP and I can verify it is a real situation. I also got "finasterided" now testosterone does not work in by body well at all. 250mg of TRT per week does 0 in terms of muscle even when eating excess callories and lifting weights 5 times a week. It did cause body hair growth and loss of hair on the head.
This situation is real and really bad.
This situation is real and really bad.
PINKoPANaTHER
Bluelighter
I have to comment on the wikipedia argument - I am a published biochemist/medical researcher, and still to this day find some of the most useful information on wikipedia, as they properly indicate where a statement has no source, or if it is a primary source article and not a well respected review by a number of groups of scientists. They even provide the links to the info.
Esterase enzymes only recognize the ester bond as stated many times previously, so therefore it would be impossible for them to select a specific ester over another...
So I'm about to say it, and can't believe no one has pointed this out yet, is that the ester is cleaved in ONE step, there is not a different reaction for prop vs decanoate, the only difference between esters (as far as length of effects/duration) is that longer esters are much more lipophilic and therefore not very likely to enter the water based blood stream as quickly. Once an ester enters the bloodstream the ester type/length basically becomes a moot point.
OP, based on my experience, you likely have some prostate issues, and finasteride is NASTY, NASTY stuff, that's why you never see it marketed or prescribed anymore... side effects are awful. To those considering using it, please reconsider... not much is worth the damage it can cause to your endocrine system (DHT serves a real purpose throughout the body, and blocking its natural effects can cause a backflow inhibition of the chemicals that respond to its concentration in the blood spreading effects to many other systems that get forced out of balance.
OH, and again, ester doesn't matter - I never "feel" long esters because they cause changes at the genetic level over a period of a week or so, just like you would't "feel" cocaine if it gradually kicked in over multiple days. Test P is expensive, painful, and requires a lot of privacy to inject that much. IT is not always ideal so some people use the easiest,and often most effective (for me/them) ester which is enanthate. My muscles do not feel poisoned every other day unlike when I use prop and cannot do leg days because ther are so sore from test prop PIP.
Esterase enzymes only recognize the ester bond as stated many times previously, so therefore it would be impossible for them to select a specific ester over another...
So I'm about to say it, and can't believe no one has pointed this out yet, is that the ester is cleaved in ONE step, there is not a different reaction for prop vs decanoate, the only difference between esters (as far as length of effects/duration) is that longer esters are much more lipophilic and therefore not very likely to enter the water based blood stream as quickly. Once an ester enters the bloodstream the ester type/length basically becomes a moot point.
OP, based on my experience, you likely have some prostate issues, and finasteride is NASTY, NASTY stuff, that's why you never see it marketed or prescribed anymore... side effects are awful. To those considering using it, please reconsider... not much is worth the damage it can cause to your endocrine system (DHT serves a real purpose throughout the body, and blocking its natural effects can cause a backflow inhibition of the chemicals that respond to its concentration in the blood spreading effects to many other systems that get forced out of balance.
OH, and again, ester doesn't matter - I never "feel" long esters because they cause changes at the genetic level over a period of a week or so, just like you would't "feel" cocaine if it gradually kicked in over multiple days. Test P is expensive, painful, and requires a lot of privacy to inject that much. IT is not always ideal so some people use the easiest,and often most effective (for me/them) ester which is enanthate. My muscles do not feel poisoned every other day unlike when I use prop and cannot do leg days because ther are so sore from test prop PIP.
Hi There... I'd agree, the ester slows down release of testosterone (with ester attached) into the bloodstream, but once there the rate at which the ester bond is broken should be the same regardless of ester used.. I thought I'd made it clear previously:
The esters attached to the testosterone molecule are all made of the same basic elements, Carbon Hydrogen and Oxygen. Just about the only difference is the length of the ester in terms of the number of carbon atoms it contains. The carbon atoms form the 'backbone' of the ester with little hydrogen atoms poking off it, A basic Hydrocarbon structure. Basically an acid, the carboxylic acid is added to the alcohol group on the testosterone molecule to form a bond. This bond between the testosterone molecule and the acid is called an ester bond so technically when we refer to the "ester" we are referring to the carboxylic acid part of the molecule.
There are two types of enzymes which can cleave this bond, esterases and hydrolases they can remove any type of ester whether it be prop, enanth or cyp. This is because the enzymes target the 'ester bond' so regardless of how long the carboxylic acid group is or its composition the bond is the same for each ester of testosterone.
I assume is that this is why time to reach the peak concentration of testosterone in the blood is the same regardless of ester length. The length of the ester doesn't determine the speed at which the ester is cleaved off the testosterone molecule but influences its solubility, so longer esters mean that it takes longer for the molecule to get absorbed into the blood stream where it can be exposed to the enzymes which remove the ester.
PINKoPANaTHER
Bluelighter
^ Exactly. Even if anti-bodies formed like powerclean suggests, it would have a hard time selecting one ester over another, because aside from the ester bond, it is just a carbon chain, which would mean if it does select specific esters, many fatty acids and other lipids would get caught in the mix as well.
I was in a hurry to finish that comment, and forgot that you had pointed that out in a way... formed my argument as I went along, but re-reading I see it was pointed out. Not sure how this continues to be argued though. Maybe the individual doesn't understand immunohistochemistry and how antibodies are formed/work, or doesn't have a fundamental understanding of chemistry to allow him to see the different esters for what they are...
I was in a hurry to finish that comment, and forgot that you had pointed that out in a way... formed my argument as I went along, but re-reading I see it was pointed out. Not sure how this continues to be argued though. Maybe the individual doesn't understand immunohistochemistry and how antibodies are formed/work, or doesn't have a fundamental understanding of chemistry to allow him to see the different esters for what they are...
Please explain the relevance of antibodies... Am I missing something here.?
Thanks.. GF..