Starting a Suboxone/Bupe detox with 2 weapons: Kratom and Loperamide

[SunZup]

Hey everybody,

New to bluelight as a poster, but I’ve been reading here a lot and these forums have helped me a great deal.

I have a looooong history with opiates, I’m 36 years old now, was on methadone for 5 years, clean n sober for 5 years, back on methadone and sub for another few years, back and forth, back and forth. I have come off opiates many times and I have always just basically toughed it out. I would just taper slowly and then stop, and maybe take some trazadone at night to help my sleep. It always sucked tremendously and I just had to deal with it, not knowing that there was anything out there to help me.

Currently I have been on suboxone strips or sometimes subutex for the past 4 months. I was clean for a year and a half but I made the mistake of going to Europe this summer where I went to a music festival SONAR and took molly and drank beer, and this lead to an eventual relapse on opiates!

But now, 4 months later I know that enough is enough! I’m tired of being underweight, depressed, lethargic and isolating myself, plus wasting my money. I’ve gotten down to taking about 2-3 mg.s of suboxone a day (from 8mg.s a day a month ago) and just when I thought I’d have to somehow endure another taper and then just stop and be miserable for weeks I discovered this site and the whole Kratom/Loperamide solution. And to be honest, stopping on my own doesn’t always work. I’ve been trying to get off these subs for the past 2 months already with no luck at finishing the detox.

So… I ordered 125 grams (a sample pack of five 25 gram packets of different types of kratom) from an online supplier, and it will be here monday (eagerly tracking the package online!). It is now Saturday night.

I also went to walmart today and bought a big bottle of loperamide and a big bottle of ibuprofen. I will take my sub tomorrow and a little less (like 1.5mgs) on monday and then that will be my last dose of sub.

Then... the grand experiment begins! Will this long time opiate addict be able to kick with the help of these aids? Normally I would go nuts and crawl the walls and slip.
9 times out of 10 I need to be in a detox/rehab to get through the detox without messing up. But I’m very hopeful after what I’ve read from other people on here. I’m not expecting a miracle cure: yes, there will be discomfort, but I really hope it helps a great deal. I also have 1 bar of xanax for emergencies, I could take a quarter of it when needed to take the edge off..

Any suggestions on this detox I’m about to embark on? I will post follow ups to let you know my progress. I also plan on eating right and doing some mild exercise in the form of bike riding to help the whole recovery process. I am excited to get started! I want my life back. As I said above, I have been clean before for long stretches, and it’s a good life!

 

[neversickanymore]

Hey SunZup.. and welcome to BL Congratulations on making the descion to get off the subs. It is a little uncomfortable and takes a little bit but is well worth it. Acutes will last from ten to 14 days before they begin to get better. However if you use the Kratom and loperamide you can prolong your stay significantly or even indefinitely. So since you are going to use these substances to try and ease your symptoms I think it is good to realize that there is no way IMHO to get a free pass out of this game and to set up and stick to a tapper plan with whichever of these substances you are going to use. Frequently I have seen people go at it with this approach and what frequently happens is they are able to get off the Bupe but then find himself dependent on the lopi or the kratom. In my opinion the use of these substances is best for periods where an active user finds himself with out a supply of their drug and needs to get by somehow as they have no intention on quitting.

Once a user decides to detox I feel the use of these drugs will ease withdrawal symptoms but unfortunately if your not experiencing withdrawal symptoms your not really withdrawing. So these substances will continue to engage the opiate receptors and will prevent them from shutting down and thus prevent a person from getting through the tunnel and out to freedom. Yes they will help a bit with the withdrawals but when they where off you will likely be going in reverse as far as progress of finally getting free. If you are going to use them for your detox then I would develop and stick with a taper plan. I also am not that big on tappers unless it is a very big habit as I think they just keep us pretty uncomfortable for a really long period of time which still will have a decent CT withdrawal at the end anyway.

The medications I would explore the use of fror detox would be:

>Clonidine< DOSED EVER FOUR HOURS..

one of either
>NEURONTIN< >HERE< >HERE<
OR >Lyrica<

>A BENZO BUT JUST AT NIGHT<
>a nsaid<
>melatonin<
tylenol

The beginning of a whole new life.. it get good pretty quick.
Good things about being off drugs/getting sober

Your going to do this and please keep us all in the loop

 

[SunZup]

Hey Neversick, thanks for the response!
You're right, that switching from one drug to another is not a solution at all. I definitely do NOT want that to happen.

I thought for some reason that kratom was not an actual opiate. Therefore I thought as long as I didn't use it for too long (say 2 weeks or less, so as not to get a physical dependance on the kratom) I could start to heal from the suboxone/opiate addiction while taking the kratom to help me through the withdrawals.

I tried to do some research on this (just by reading other people's experiences) and it seems as though it can work.
But... there are also a lot of stories out there of people just getting hooked on kratom instead. Not my intention at all!!! So I will certainly take your advice and come up with a schedule and begin tapering pretty soon after I make the switch from bupe to kratom.

I plan on using the Lope not too much. I've heard some people taking massive amounts of this stuff but I won't do that. Maybe 16 mg.s a day at most? After all you are right, if I continue to engage my extra receptors then I will make no progress. There is no true shortcut. Gotta go through some pain to make it. I was just hoping this could help.

My Dad is coming down here to Florida in 3 weeks and I'll be seeing him for a night, first time in 11 months, and I wanted to be clean for that.
I miss being clean and clear headed. There was such a joy to waking up feeling good in the morning. On the suboxone I have the desire to sleep til 11 or noon. Totally a waste of time. Life is short!! And precious! Why waste any of it??

I went through a suboxone detox 2 years ago and it took me about a month to feel 99% ok, but after the first week every day was better and better. Very manageable. It wasn't fun at all but it wasn't the worst I've been through. So I know what to expect. Anyway, I'll be posting updates as my detox progresses. I look forward to hopefully sharing some good news with you guys

 

[SunZup]

Hey all,
Day 2 now and things are going pretty good so far.

I was going to start on Monday but the damn package didn't arrive til Wednesday afternoon, 2 days late. I was tracking it online and watched my precious kratom go from Texas to Illinois to another place in Illinois, then back to the first place, then sit there for a day and a half, and then finally come down to Florida where I live and make its way to my door. At this point I had been doing about 4 mg.s a day of sub. I had wanted to get it down much lower before stopping, and I initially did (I got down to about 1.5 a day) but then I started doing more in the last week, to get a buzz from it. My willpower is shit sometimes so I was back up to 4 mg.s a day (2 in the a.m. and 2 in the p.m.).

So the last time I did sub was about 1.5 mg.s on Wednesday night at about 10pm. The next day I waited til about noon and did my first bit of Classic Bali. I mixed in one level teaspoon (I think this is about 5 Grams) with a little bit of yogurt and ate it, washing it down with a little water. taste is pretty nasty but who cares.. I did this on an empty stomach. Well, An hour later I didn't feel much. Maybe a tiny bit of slight warmth and mild, mild euphoria. I dosed later that evening, again on an empty stomach, this time mixing it in with a little warm water with honey and just throwing it back.

Now, normally by this time I'd be feeling a little sick. The subs hold me about 20 hrs, and I usually would have mild withdrawal by this point but I had almost none at all. Feeling about 90% normal. Maybe a little bit of anxiety but I heard the kratom can do that. And again, it was very mild. I felt ok. And I passed out around 10pm. Slept like a baby til 4am. Normally, without the kratom I would've had a shitty night of broken sleep.

I woke at 4am feeling minor withdrawals, took another teaspoon mixed with water and fell back asleep at 5am.

Took my first dose on Friday, day 2 (today), at 10am. Empty stomach again (I heard that this is important) I used the Baik Bali strain this time. Now it is 11:45 and although I don't really feel much of anything, I DON'T FEEL SICK!!!! And that's the main point, right? So, so far it is working. I mean, I do have some minor symptoms, like hot and cold flashes and the sweats, but they are totally manageable And the point is to get clean, not get addicted to Kratom or get high from it. Although, I gotta admit I was hoping to get a nice buzz from it, but maybe it's better that I haven't. Less urge to keep re-dosing.

What I'm kinda worried about is that i am just substituting one drug for another. Because if I had stopped the subs and didn't take another opiod like substance then every day clean would be a day that I was healing and getting closer to feeling normal again. But I am worried that by using this kratom I am prolonging that and not "healing", just putting off the inevitable and using something else instead. I was hoping kratom would cover up my withdrawals while at the same time allowing my body to heal, but maybe that's just not possible... Well, we'll see what happens. I just want to be clean again, with as little pain as possible to get there.

I have a bunch of different strains that came with my sample pack and I'm not sure which ones to take, but I guess I'll end up taking them all eventually. I don't know which is best for opiate withdrawal.

I have:
50g Classic Bali
25g Kaya Kali White Thai
25g Red Vein Thai
25g Baik Bali
10g Ratu Raja Indo
10g Tawa Tua Indo

Any advice on which ones to take?

I'll update tomorrow.

 

[olskoolrollrz]

Hey all,
Day 2 now and things are going pretty good so far.

I was going to start on Monday but the damn package didn't arrive til Wednesday afternoon, 2 days late. I was tracking it online and watched my precious kratom go from Texas to Illinois to another place in Illinois, then back to the first place, then sit there for a day and a half, and then finally come down to Florida where I live and make its way to my door. At this point I had been doing about 4 mg.s a day of sub. I had wanted to get it down much lower before stopping, and I initially did (I got down to about 1.5 a day) but then I started doing more in the last week, to get a buzz from it. My willpower is shit sometimes so I was back up to 4 mg.s a day (2 in the a.m. and 2 in the p.m.).

So the last time I did sub was about 1.5 mg.s on Wednesday night at about 10pm. The next day I waited til about noon and did my first bit of Classic Bali. I mixed in one level teaspoon (I think this is about 5 Grams) with a little bit of yogurt and ate it, washing it down with a little water. taste is pretty nasty but who cares.. I did this on an empty stomach. Well, An hour later I didn't feel much. Maybe a tiny bit of slight warmth and mild, mild euphoria. I dosed later that evening, again on an empty stomach, this time mixing it in with a little warm water with honey and just throwing it back.

Now, normally by this time I'd be feeling a little sick. The subs hold me about 20 hrs, and I usually would have mild withdrawal by this point but I had almost none at all. Feeling about 90% normal. Maybe a little bit of anxiety but I heard the kratom can do that. And again, it was very mild. I felt ok. And I passed out around 10pm. Slept like a baby til 4am. Normally, without the kratom I would've had a shitty night of broken sleep.

I woke at 4am feeling minor withdrawals, took another teaspoon mixed with water and fell back asleep at 5am.

Took my first dose on Friday, day 2 (today), at 10am. Empty stomach again (I heard that this is important) I used the Baik Bali strain this time. Now it is 11:45 and although I don't really feel much of anything, I DON'T FEEL SICK!!!! And that's the main point, right? So, so far it is working. I mean, I do have some minor symptoms, like hot and cold flashes and the sweats, but they are totally manageable And the point is to get clean, not get addicted to Kratom or get high from it. Although, I gotta admit I was hoping to get a nice buzz from it, but maybe it's better that I haven't. Less urge to keep re-dosing.

What I'm kinda worried about is that i am just substituting one drug for another. Because if I had stopped the subs and didn't take another opiod like substance then every day clean would be a day that I was healing and getting closer to feeling normal again. But I am worried that by using this kratom I am prolonging that and not "healing", just putting off the inevitable and using something else instead. I was hoping kratom would cover up my withdrawals while at the same time allowing my body to heal, but maybe that's just not possible... Well, we'll see what happens. I just want to be clean again, with as little pain as possible to get there.

I have a bunch of different strains that came with my sample pack and I'm not sure which ones to take, but I guess I'll end up taking them all eventually. I don't know which is best for opiate withdrawal.

I have:
50g Classic Bali
25g Kaya Kali White Thai
25g Red Vein Thai
25g Baik Bali
10g Ratu Raja Indo
10g Tawa Tua Indo

Any advice on which ones to take?

I'll update tomorrow.

dont know anything ab outkratom sorry recently kicked sub after
2 years and was on pillsfor 6 years before that..after as many times as i tried substituting it never worked ..what it took for me was very slow taper like 3 months.. from 1 mg a day down to.05 mg a day down to a speck of a strip every day, down to a speck every 4 th day down to nothing..My temperature controls were of and i had diareeah after thay for about 3 weeks....finally it eased up and now i can finally say i am opiate free ..my body is starting to finally after 3 months w/o subs come back to normal and i dfeel sharper than ever....
its alot of misery and no energy days but can be done push onward

 

[Eveleivibe]

Good luck with this. Keep typing for support. We're here for you.
In the section, 'Other Threads,' there they are megathread called 'suboxone megathread' and another called Opiate withdrawal megathread,' if you subscribe to these, "(by click thread took then in the first option box, clicking instant by E-mail) you'll find great support there as people talk about tapering off suboxone of the suboxone n opiate withdrawal threads. If you know this alread I apologise.

Of course, you can keep coming here, to TDS. I'm not trying to sway you away just wanted to let you know of other places you can get support with this.

I'm sorry I know nothing of the meds you are using to help you taper - but if they work that's ace.

Can I ask what your plans are re after care? Like NA etc?

Take care n welcome to Bluelight.

Evey

 

[Dr. Opium]

I wish you the best for your detox.
Did you start taking Methadone as your first opioid, or was it an ORT?
As for Loperamide, I'm curious about its usage for detoxification. It doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, so all its effects are basically constipation. Then, why is it useful for detox?
Also please be careful with Ibuprofen; it honestly doesn't help me at all and it has disgusting side effects. I take metamizole (Nolotil) for pain when I withdraw from opioids.

Regards,
Dr. Opium.

 

[SunZup]

Scary development...
It has been 2 weeks since I posted, and in that time I overdosed on a combo of xanax and heroin. It was my first time truly OD'ing and it scared the SHIT out of me. I wound up in the hospital for 2 days and got out 6 days ago.

It all started with the xanax. Silly me, don't I know by now?????? Every time I mess with xanax I eventually get in trouble (or right away in this case). I got some to help the withdrawals and ended up high from them, and then decided to get some heroin. This was now possible since for the previous 4 months or so I'd been on buprenorphine/subs so I hadn't had the option of just using dope, since the bupe blocks it.

But now I was free and clear to relapse. And I guess my tolerance was that low that the xanax plus the strong heroin I got down here in Florida just put me over the top. I was rushed to the hospital, given Narcan in the ambulance, and apparently got very violent with the EMT's and had to be put in restraints. I don't remember any of this but I got the report from the hospital's medical records office and it is all there in scary black and white.

I've been an on/off opiate user for 18 years (I'm 36) and this is my first hospitalization for an OD. And after has been so hard. Problems I've suffered are:

-memory loss

and also...

-memory loss
(Yes, I had to write it twice because it's that bad. Riding around the small city I live in for the first 2 days after the OD seemed weird and different, foreign, and I was very lost and had trouble recognizing the street's names and their relation to each other. Also had trouble recalling friend's names, like if I wanted to call a friend I'd get out my phone and then not be able to remember his name. I feel kinda fried. It's coming back now but god, this is scary).

-numbness on my thumb and wrist. Don't know why this is but they've been mildly numb ever since I got out of the hospital, still numb now, slightly. Maybe I was laying on my thumb for many hours... who knows.

-many bruises, scrapes and cuts all over me and I don't know how they got there. Probably from the stuff in the ambulance w/ the EMT's. Their names are in the report and I really feel I owe them a phone call and an apology. That is not me, I'm not normally a violent guy.

So after the OD I got out of the hospital and was in bad opiate withdrawal so (some will find this hard to believe, whereas other who've been there with opiate addiction will surely understand) I went and got some more heroin, although now doing a lot less at a time, ya know, being cautious.

I did that for a few days. I had to move because my lease expired and wasn't renewed so I just did that and I'm in my new apartment now which is nice.. The old place had some bad vibes goin on there, I'm happy to start over. As of tonight I started back on the subutex again and will remain on it on a low maintenance dose until I can get into treatment. I'm saying F**k it, no more trying to do this myself, I'm just gonna do what's worked in the past and endure the misery in a safe place where I won't stumble. I want to be 100% clean again. This life sucks and is half-assed, in my opinion, I don't want to be on subs forever. Time to get clean, damn. Truly clean.

Hopefully better news in my next post. But as far as the kratom detox goes, um, yeah, that's done

 

[neversickanymore]

Well Sunzup good the hear you dodged that bullet.. definitely seems to me that you have gotten to the end of any and all thats pleasant in the drug game. Congratulations on makeing the right conclusion to get back to the clean clean, all your going to miss out on is hell I hope you are able to find a really good program and find the peace you need and deserve.

 

[hazard6]

benzo blackouts are scary as hell and i think even give you worse decision making then alcohol. You probably did soooo much heroin lol. i understand getting some more when you got out of hospital because you just arent ready to go in to withdrawal mode and after that OD you should know your limit. Some people just cant get clean by themselves and need other people there to help them and keep convincing them that its a shitty way of life, good for you that you realized that and are getting help, good luck in detox!