Gyno Help Please ??

benzoman12345

benzoman12345

Ex-Bluelighter
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So after a test and deca cycle with great results, I've ended up with gyno,
It's not noticeable to the eye but I can feel all the hard bits behind the nipples and sore to touch,

I could go to a GP but fuck that, don't want Steroids on my record,

My Natty Test is defoe kicking back in , sex drive up , feeling good , pumped etc

Basically before this get's any worse (and it is!)

What Anti E should I use and at what dosage, I need someone experienced to answer this please, thanks ;)
 
How long was your cycle, and what dosages (though I don't think this entirely matters)? And how long ago did it end?

I'd give aromasin a shot in your case, given it's got a good rep for being used as part of PCT anyway. Something like 12.5mg EOD, though I'll let someone more experienced comment on dosage given you're in PCT.

Have you considered that perhaps it's prolactin induced gyno from the DECA? I actually started getting a little bit of gyno (probably about the same severity as yours) recently after ~2 weeks of blasting tren. It's my 3rd time using tren, but the first time I've had any signs whatsoever of gyno (though I have experienced the other prolactin sides like libido loss and insomnia). I'm already on 12.5mg EOD aromasin, and have added in 0.5mg ED prami while I wait for some caber to rock up.
 
Defoe experience sex drive loss, but that's came back, done 10 weeks of 415mg Test, 335mg Deca,

1st Time using Deca I Done a few NPP jabs as well, absolutely love the stuff, I know it is the Deca, because I;ve ran high doses of Test and Sus Before and had sides but never Gyno,

I made the mistake of not having an Anti-E or Ai on hand, I was too impatient to start the cycle,

I can order any anti-e I want, and defoe will be running Deca again, but need to sort this 1st,

And from now on every single cycle I will run probably something like Nolva EOD , now that I know I'm prone to it.

Edit: I'm clued up on a lot of things but prolactin aint 1 of them.
 
Ah ok fair enough - given your past cycles and the loss of sex drive, I'm thinking it's more likely prolactin gyno. Though with your additional info, you should get some good advice from someone more clued than myself shortly :)

I've been on an AI (adex, until switching to aromasin about a month ago) since 2 weeks after starting my blast/cruise back at the very beginning of the year lol. For the price, I can't see any reason NOT to run it - at the very least during a blast (above TRT dose of test, plus whatever else is chucked on top haha)
 
You've not stated what PCT protocol you followed, if indeed you did..? As a side note its always a good idea to run your Testosterone 2 weeks longer than a 19-nor like Deca..

There's some debate on the subject of prolactin induced gyno, so I won't go into it..!!! apart from to say it could be all bollocks..!!

All the literature I've just spent the last 4 hours reading states: Tamoxifen will block the Estrogen receptor alpha in breast tissue, the receptor that plays the most important role in breast cell proliferation (replication). Because it stops the actions of circulating estrogens at the receptor its effect will be somewhat faster than those of aromatase inhibitors, which will take some time to reduce circulating estrogen and start having an effect. If we would look at the blood levels of estradiol when using an AI or a SERM we’d see very different things. The AI will reduce the level of estrogens, whereas a SERM will increase it (short term only), because the SERM is keeping the estrogens from binding the receptor. The end result with regards to estrogen receptor alpha is the same however : no estrogens are activating this receptor, so proliferation is halted.

One thing I do want to impart is that tamoxifen treatment must continue for some time to be effective. Too often tamoxifen is reported to be ineffective for acute treatment because it isn’t used sufficiently long. tamoxifen inhibits the growth of breast tissue, but does not reduce it on its own. This is mediated by your androgen levels as a male and an AAS user. These cells do not dissolve, they are ultimately destroyed by genomic signals. This takes some time. On top of that early cessation risks rebound effects. tamoxifen does not address circulating estradiol so early cessation will only lead to estradiol immediately binding ER-alpha again, and barring any changes, starting problems all over again.

Some key points here is that the onset could have been self-manipulation of the nipples after the onset of gyno, so that it may be wise to not play with yourself while you administer your anti-estrogen treatment to treat the gyno, as well as the fact that this can and does occur with low prolactin levels, meaning treating against prolactin with dopamine agonists may not be effective, and may actually exacerbate the problem when the drug is discontinued due to dopamine D2-receptor down-regulation.

A higher body-fat percentage, is also a known risk factor since adipose tissue produces aromatase. Higher body-fat can also make the condition seem more drastic than it is, since fat deposits around the nipples will usually be larger. They can both obscure gyno or make it look worse than it is.

THE ONLY WAY TO STOP NANDROLONE’S ESTROGENIC EFFECT IS TO NOT USE IT......

After all that Tamoxifen promotion the most effective treatment for early gyno on popular steroid forums seems to be Letro.... When using letro as part of effective lump removal, it is prudent to include nolva or arimidex after discontinuance of letro cycle to avoid rebound from estrogen inhibition.. IE: E2 / Test ratio goes out of whack and estrogen can rebound back in stronger amounts until the axis stabilises...
 
benzoman12345 said:
What's a decent dose of Letro and can I use Nolva at the same time ?
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Letro: 1.25-2.5 seems to be what I've been reading.... Nolva is not recommended with Letro.... As I mentioned use maybe Nolva or Adex post-Letro to avoid rebound...

You've not mentioned your PCT and what it consisted of or when you started it in relation to secession of your steroid cycle..??
 
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Genetic Freak said:
There's some debate on the subject of prolactin induced gyno, so I won't go into it..!!! apart from to say it could be all bollocks..!!
Click to expand...

Anecdotal evidence for ya: I've been blasting/cruising since beginning of the year. Have been on an AI since the very beginning with no off-time. Currently in week 4 of a trenbolone blast (420mg/wk) and have started developing gyno early last week (puffy and sore nipples, some random hard lumps n shit lol). Hadn't been taking any prolactin control (though haven't in the past either). The only thing that's changed and could be causing the gyno is the tren, unless it's just a mad coincidence and somehow my usual 12.5mg EOD of Aromasin is no longer doing what it should be.
 
nah man its probably a prolactin reaction, given that you have only seen the problem with the introduction of Trenbolone. I have issues with 19Nors and run caber at .25mg twice a week, and have never had an issue since adopting that protocol. A little goes a long way with caber. I blast and cruise as well have been for a long while, and after awhile I had to adopt a little bit of a heavier approach to side effects when on a blast though thats largely because I run extended 16-20 week blasts. BTW what Type of Tren are you running A or E ?
 
Don't wanna hijack the OP's thread lol, but yeah that was my point - my gyno is from the trenbolone (in response to what GF said in my quote)....I've started on the prami already while I wait for caber to show up, so right now I'm just dealing with this sensation as though someone just pinched both my nipples LOL

I'm running Test E 50mg ED and Tren A 60mg ED, with aromasin 12.5mg EOD and now also prami 0.5mg ED.
 
Genetic Freak said:
Letro: 1.25-2.5 seems to be what I've been reading.... Nolva is not recommended with Letro.... As I mentioned use maybe Adex post-Letro to avoid rebound...

You've not mentioned your PCT and what it consisted of or when you started it in relation to secession of your steroid cycle..??
Click to expand...

I fucked up mate, haven't ran any Anti-E's or PCT at all due to being impatient and running out of money, gna get some Letrazole this Friday and start 2.5mg ED, Nolva ED as well I think, not sure why it isn't recommended , I really need to get educated on Prolactin, I know nothing about it, shame too cos Deca especially NPP makes my muscles blow up , I've not even lost a lot and been off 4 weeks now.

Edit: This didn't develop until just before the end of my cycle , you live and learn , and what I've learned is that when I get this sorted and I do plan to blast and cruise , I will be running Test E or C, and blasting short acting esters of other compounds like NPP for no more than 4-6 weeks, same with orals, to avoid these problems or fix them quicker, I wasn't running such a long ester I could have noticed it and defeated it straight away.
 
benzo mate thats why you always buy the PCT first and have the AI and shit to hand but like you said you live and learn not a mistake if you come away wiser.
 
Neoprimitive said:
benzo mate thats why you always buy the PCT first and have the AI and shit to hand but like you said you live and learn not a mistake if you come away wiser.
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Cheers for not ripping me up for arse paper mate, feel like a dick, I am the guy who advises everybody of this shit but I didn't take my own advice and look what happened, but aye will have a cupboard full of every Anti-E / AI Known to mankind before starting any cycle again lol

If I was to go to a GP with this, any idea what they'd do, as far as I'm aware Nolva is Illegal or maybe that's some bullshit I read somewhere, would they give me clomid or something ?

I really don't want it on my record cos my back is done in with nerve damage and they'll blame the roids straight away

Running 19nors with no AIs on hand is like bangin a hooker without a rubber !
 
Running anything without its respective support compounds on hand is the wrong way to do it, and we've both learned here Benzo ;)

Shit happens, you've discovered the problem early enough, so just give it some time once you get your AI and prolactin inhibitor up and running :)
 
benzoman12345 said:
Cheers for the support lads, appreciated ;)
Click to expand...

Just a quick comment I've heard on other boards... Are you sure it is gyno..? Its not maybe an itchy nip you've exasperated by touching it unnecessarily, whilst Androgen/E2 ratio is out of whack due to lack of PCT ..? Unsure as to how long you've had it..? Does it appear to be getting worse..?
 
Yeah it's hard sore to touch weird shaped lumps, only a few farely big to feel and like I said sore to touch and sometimes I'm just getting pain out of nowhere without touching them, it's not itchy, it's pain and they're pretty solid,

What about Caber, I can get it 0.5mg x 4 tablets, that seems to be the way forward with Letro for Prolactin from what I've been reading it counteracts the prolactin from taking over the dopamine, but how do I dose 4 tablets ?

I can get Teva 8 x 0.5mg Tablets as well of Caber ?

Edit: Not just behind the nips either, up a bit on the outer pecs as well, defoe Prolactin enduced tumours from what I'm reading, the word tumour is a bit scary. Need to sort this shit ASAP
 
benzoman12345 said:
Yeah it's hard sore to touch weird shaped lumps, only a few farely big to feel and like I said sore to touch and sometimes I'm just getting pain out of nowhere without touching them, it's not itchy, it's pain and they're pretty solid,

What about Caber, I can get it 0.5mg x 4 tablets, that seems to be the way forward with Letro for Prolactin from what I've been reading it counteracts the prolactin from taking over the dopamine, but how do I dose 4 tablets ?

I can get Teva 8 x 0.5mg Tablets as well of Caber ?

Edit: Not just behind the nips either, up a bit on the outer pecs as well, defoe Prolactin enduced tumours from what I'm reading, the word tumour is a bit scary. Need to sort this shit ASAP
Click to expand...

With the caber (since I've got no idea what Teva is), dose it 1 tablet (0.5mg) E3D.
 
Teva is just a well known brand of medication. It is far too expensive to run 1 tab EOD , but if needs must I'll have to do what I have to do, 1st things 1st, box of 30x 2.5mg Letro ,

I'm reading stay away from Clomid/Nolva because that's just asking for rebound and Caber / Letro is the long lasting fix then when it's controlled switch to cruise on Aromasin,

So I'm obv prone to Prolactin induced Gyno now I've learned that, I wonder if people use things like Caber during cycle, I've heard of AI's obv and even Nolva EOD. I think I should forget about cycles and concentrate on my tits for now lol
 
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