Suboxone taper ROA?

[BeachBoy]

If the half life of IV Bupe is generally agreed to be much less than Sublingual, could it be used for an advantage for Tapering? To be more specific, since the half life of sublingual Bupe is a huge factor in the duration of ones very long withdrawal, if tapered down by IV would the withdrawal be less pronounced in intensity/duration?

Forgive me for any ignorance in my 1st post, Im 18 and am very concerned about the "trap" that is long-term Suboxone use and my well-being; not to mention the countless others in the same situation. I think I inquired about this previousely in the wrong forum.

 

[spork]

Hi BeachBoy, I think your thread will be better suited for Other Drugs and I'll be moving your thread there now. All the best.

 

[RTrain]

I can't think of any advantage in IV'ing Subs if you want to taper off them. The main reason that bupe is good for tapering is the long half life, the theory you present is basically ass backwards logic.

It sounds like you are trying to justify abusing the medication with a far fetched idea that it is actually beneficial to the medication's intended use.

edit: Just to be clear, I am not trying to be preachy about abusing Subs. I am just saying if you really want to taper its not in the best interest to be IV'ing, unless you have a limited supply and need to stretch it out. By no means do I use the stuff as intended. I use to snort it(horrible for sinuses), I still plug it on occasion and I go back and forth from Subs and H all the time.

And if you don't want to be trapped by Suboxone I suggest keeping the dose down and beginning to taper shortly after you stabilize on a dose. I know for me after a week on the stuff I can get by with 2-3 mg a day. From there its easy to taper down in about a month or 2 and jump off at dose like .1 or .2 mg a day. Thing is, for a lot of people, its better to be trapped by Suboxone than to just relapse once your get off it.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Suboxone is not for IVing. The naloxone will block the affect.

 

[neversickanymore]

^ referring to subutex most likely as it doesn't contain naloxone.

 

[Ziggy stardust]

Suboxone is IVable...the Bupe overrides the Nal immediately ...

 

[Zerrr]

This is actually a reasonable question, although its tough to justify IV bupe unless you have access to Buprenex.(too dangerous)

Might help if you are more specific about your taper plan: How many mg's to start, how fast you plan on dropping each dose, how low of a dose you jump off from..

If your first statement is true, it seems logical enough that it could shorten the acute withdrawal from bupe.

having said that:

Its a silly idea, and I guess you'd have to IV bupe for a while for any change to happen.

 

[poppyplanet]

I think it's a bad idea all around to IV bupe. It's not designed to go into your veins via injection. It just sounds dangerous. If I were you and you wanted to taper your bupe doses as long as possible, I would just snort little bumps of it every eight or so hours. Give yourself a taper plan and eventually, if you stick with it, you should continuously cut your doses in half each day until the discomfort is hardly there. Good luck. Bupe withdrawal is hell so make sure you don't screw yourself.

 

[Ziggy stardust]

I tapered off suboxone snorting it under 1mg. I got down to .10 at one jump. It took me several times (5) to finally get off suboxone. I think IVing it is a bad idea. It's not a plesent drug to shoot and it's just easier to snort a tiny line. My 2mg suboxone pills lasted 20 days at the end of my taper. The taper was hard after .5mg and I ended up jumping from that, the last time. In my opinion the WD was basicly the same from .5 and .10mg. I'm not sure it's worth suffering down to .10mg. The WD was fairly mild physically, but mentally it was a bitch!
Good luck...and as NIKE says...just do it!

 

[Wobblier]

taper to 1mg then have .5mg, then .5 every other day. then snort a tiny tiny tiny amount (sorting makes it feel stronger) then do this every other day increasing the days where u are opiate free, you could even then switch to very very low doses of tramadol.

learn your triggers, relocate, don't turn into another zombie

 

[BIGsherm7272]

In theory it would be a lot easier to dose with small quantities, but the ritual of IV'ing drugs is not really good when you are trying to get off drugs. It is a psychological thing that can hinder your recovery. But if the only reason you want to get off bupe is purely just to get off bupe and not abstain from other drugs, then I don't think it really matters. Just make sure to use micron filters if at all possible, if not filter at least 2 times with a decent sized cotton ball. Do not heat and use bateriostatic water if avilable, if not use RO water (reverse osmosis) to ensure you are using sterile water.

 

[RTrain]

I tapered off suboxone snorting it under 1mg. I got down to .10 at one jump. It took me several times (5) to finally get off suboxone. I think IVing it is a bad idea. It's not a plesent drug to shoot and it's just easier to snort a tiny line. My 2mg suboxone pills lasted 20 days at the end of my taper. The taper was hard after .5mg and I ended up jumping from that, the last time. In my opinion the WD was basicly the same from .5 and .10mg. I'm not sure it's worth suffering down to .10mg. The WD was fairly mild physically, but mentally it was a bitch!
Good luck...and as NIKE says...just do it!

When I tapered it I hardly noticed when I was dropping doses and when I stopped at a dose of .1 mg a day I couldn't even tell the difference from not taking it. I used a pretty regularly tried and tested taper of 75% every 3-4 days. I wasn't too strick about it, if I wanted to wait an extra day 2 to make a drop, I did. If I decided to only drop to 80% instad of 75%, I did. If I felt good and wanted to drop sooner or a little bigger of a decrease, then I would.

It really makes no sense that jumping at .5 mg would be just as difficult as .1 mg. I guess everyone's mileage may vary, as they say, but that just seems strange.

I was using sublingually and I think its to your benefit when tapering because you get a more stable dose. Nasal ROA has more factors that can alter the bioavailbility. Also, unless you are using a microgram scale, its tough to measure at an accurate dose for nasal use. But with sublingual you can make a liquid solution of the medication, then measure out doses with a 1 cc oral syringe. Doing this you can get down to really low doses( like sub .1 mg) and be relatively accurate with the dosing.

Nasal is stronger, too, so if you jump at .1 mg sublingual its really a lower dose than .1 nasal.

 

[Phoenix_rising]

IV`ing Bupe is a very bad idea indeed.If it were a good idea don`t you think it would already have been designed to be injected? The idea of Bupe is to taper so as to decrease the agony of withdrawal.

I`ve been on many opiates over the years and been on a methadone program and i can say from experience that using Bupe correctly and as intended,is by far much better than anything else,it stabilizes you and helps to prepare you for a life without opiates even though it is an opiate itself,for me it doesn`t feel like an opiate,for me it just makes feel normal,i do NOT get a buzz from it in anyway what so ever...Wanting to inject or insufflate the drug then IMO your looking for a buzz,a way to get high.

 

[BadassMoFo]

Since when does the ROA affect the half life of any drug? Half life is defined as the time to metabolize once it is in the bloodstream so how does the ROA affect that? ROA may affect the amount that gets into the bloodstream but once its in there, the ROA has nothing to do with it unless it is some sort of extended release formula. The few minutes it takes for a Suboxone to dissolve in your mouth is not going to affect its half life compared to IV..

I think a lot of people would be surprised at how quick you can taper off of Suboxone. I have taken it for years and know that the only reason the prescribe higher doses is to take advantage of the blocking affect for other opiods. I can get off an EXTREME dose of IV opiods with an initial dose of 16mg then cutting the dose down every day thereafter until its down to 1/2mg (6 days) and that 1/2 mg will sustain me with no withdrawals for as long as I want or you can quit the low dose of 1/2mg anytime. Actually 1/2mg taken sublingually is basically nothing because of the low bioavailability taken this way. Now trying to taper this way will NOT work if you have been on a higher dose for an extended period of time. In that situation I have found it best to taper by cutting dose in half every week instead of day. I also find that extending the time between doses also make tapering easier. I could get away with every other day since the half life is 72 hours but that may differ from patient to patient.

 

[dopemegently]

No way does the half life of bupe become increased by injecting it. I have no idea where you heard that, but it's simply not true-it's impossible in fact.

Has the OP had experience with injecting? If not, I'd say shooting bupe to try and increase the drugs life is a terrible idea. If you don't take precautions and use poor technique, you can cause irreparable damage to your veins. I used to shoot it for 2 years straight, and it's now very difficult to find a vein; this could complicate any future blood tests or hospital treatment. Also, the act of injecting can be extremely addicting in its own right. It's called a "needle fetish", and it can be an extremely difficult compulsion to break. If you consider yourself to have an addictive personality, my advice would be not to start banging, because you're really not going to be achieving the effects you want from this ROA

 

[BadassMoFo]

Also, the act of injecting can be extremely addicting in its own right. It's called a "needle fetish", and it can be an extremely difficult compulsion to break. If you consider yourself to have an addictive personality, my advice would be not to start banging, because you're really not going to be achieving the effects you want from this ROA

VERY good to point that out!

 

[Fire&Water]

The 4 mm 8 mg. High-Tech are pretty easy to taper with (someone mentioned the strips are also easier) Seems like you can control the amount that metabolizes by how long you leave it under tongue...I'm at 36 hours of 2 mg's w/ no discomfort

Edit: actually, hour 48,...feel fine

 

[Zerrr]

Half life is an incorrect term but there could be some validity to the op.(or maybe we're both missing something here )

Sublingual use of bupe absorbs into your bloodstream over the course of minutes to hours, IV use almost immediately.

A few variables here (mainly the BA, + possible bypass of digestive system/defense mechs when IV'd)

My specualtion would be.

Withdrawal from your last dose of IV bupe would occur in a quicker duration and the onset of symptoms would be more significant/pronounced.

Reason being: IV use will both enter and exit the bloodstream more quickly and you will really 'jump off' if you IV your last dose. If the last dose was taken sublingually, the onset of withdrawal will be less pronounced because it will creep up on you..

All things considered, at best you would be trading a few hours of withdrawal for a more intense onset.

 

[Eveleivibe]

In theory it would be a lot easier to dose with small quantities, but the ritual of IV'ing drugs is not really good when you are trying to get off drugs. It is a psychological thing that can hinder your recovery. But if the only reason you want to get off bupe is purely just to get off bupe and not abstain from other drugs, then I don't think it really matters. Just make sure to use micron filters if at all possible, if not filter at least 2 times with a decent sized cotton ball. Do not heat and use bateriostatic water if avilable, if not use RO water (reverse osmosis) to ensure you are using sterile water.

I agree with this. If you are going into 'recovery' take the medication as intended with a slow taper.
I disagree with some posters re naloxone. It is NOT safe to inject this - the whole point in suboxone is to stop people abusing this medication by IV. It is very dangerous. If you want to taper by IV use burenex or whatever it's called, that is intended for that purpose.
Good luck, Evey

 

[Zerrr]

I agree with this. If you are going into 'recovery' take the medication as intended with a slow taper.
I disagree with some posters re naloxone. It is NOT safe to inject this - the whole point in suboxone is to stop people abusing this medication by IV. It is very dangerous. If you want to taper by IV use burenex or whatever it's called, that is intended for that purpose.
Good luck, Evey

No one said it was 'safe' to inject bupe or naloxone. The post you made prior was misinformation.

The bupe doesn't override the naloxone, it gets to the receptors first which blocks the effects of the naloxone. (regardless of roa)(what I read anyway)

*Ive honestly never IV'd suboxone so maybe the bupe tech does override the naloxone. Its pretty much the same thing either way so moot point.