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Weed withdrawal questions

Ive always associated withdrawals with physical addiction. Negative effects happening physically because your body is no longer receiving the stimuli its usually saturated with 24/7.

But apparently you have to feel like youre dying to be in a withdrawal, huh?
 
I was talking about opiate addiction; the fear of withdrawals is a major factor in staying on the shit- after enough time passes, it's not even about getting high anymore, but avoiding the withdrawals. The psychological factor is a major part of any addiction; it can make the mildest symptoms seem unbearable, and it's the overwhelming need to seek an altered consciousness. I'd say the psychological part IS the addiction. As I've posted before, I believe in an addictive personality, while many doubt there is such a thing.
 
Ive always associated withdrawals with physical addiction. Negative effects happening physically because your body is no longer receiving the stimuli its usually saturated with 24/7.

But apparently you have to feel like youre dying to be in a withdrawal, huh?

I'm starting to think that when you use the word withdrawal like that, it's too encompassing. I really don't think video game withdrawal is the same as drug withdrawal. So when I just say withdrawal without qualifying it, I almost always think it has to do with serious side effects. If withdrawal works for anything, the word loses its power. Most people would be withdrawing from a lot of things all the time. If someone tells me they went through withdrawal before when he didn't have an internet connection for a week, it's hard to take them seriously if you feel real withdrawal. My 2 cents. The word means different things for different people, it's definitely hard for me to consider weed withdrawal 'real' withdrawal considering what I've been through. Yet at the same time it does technically mean stopping anything. Like I said this is kinda a debate on colloquial vernacular and standardized english, and that debate simply cannot go beyond semantics, by definition.
 
I agree psychological can be much more. Ive kicked a horrendous booze habit, shakes so hard I couldnt write anything legible (court documents and job apps were literally impossible to fill out), delirium tremens complete with visual hallucinations, the whole 9 yards, short of seizures or ischemic stroke. Thank god for inpatient anticonvulsants. Ive kicked a medium xanax love affair, nothing huge but enough of a habit to ruin my sleep and cause malaise for a week or so. I kicked a pretty bad meth habit too, though that probably isnt too high on the list of physical WD culprits.

Cannabis is probably the only thing I cant leave alone, due to my psychological profile (who said theres no such thing as an adictive personality?). Sounds ridiculous, I can kick 3 "harder" substances but little old weed just isnt an option. But cannabis fits me and my personality so well and become so ingrained in my life, those around me, Id literally have to change my life completely to say goodbye to Mary. Perhaps down the road as my perspective in life changes, I dont know.

Anyway, Im off to hit this wax and pass the fuck out.
 
I'm starting to think that when you use the word withdrawal like that, it's too encompassing..


Physical dependence is too encompassing? Seems pretty standard to me.

I dont know where this talk about video game withdrawals came from, I most certainly never suggested anything that ridiculous. Ill state it again, I equate withdrawals with physical dependence, not psychological dependence. Reread them if you have to, my posts have all been highlighting the physical effects Ive felt upon cessation.
 
And if "withdrawal" were to become all-encompassing, it would mean paydirt for "Rehab, Inc", not that they're not trying to make it so; I've just been reading a thinly veiled advert for a $4000 per week in-patient treatment program for salvia addiction, of all things....! (This also involved a suggestion of benzo replacement). It's funny you brought up "video game addiction"; there is a twelve step program for this very thing! And what do you know, they also have a list of clearly defined withdrawal symptoms...

I don't know, maybe it's a cultural thing; we're living in a society where feeling not quite 100% isn't good enough, and where people are prescribed SSRI's for having the mid-week blues. These day's, the risk-reward ratios are completely off-kilter; feeling good is too damn easy, and I'm hearing of new and exotic addictions by the day.

We need a real addiction specialist (one without a self-serving agenda) to completely remove all of this ambiguity about the nature of addiction.
 
Did you even comprehend the post you just replied to? I didnt bring up video game withdrawal nor would I suggest such a thing, ever. I dont think youve read my posts thoroughly, I think you are picking what you want to hear from my posts and rejecting what doesnt fit your heroin mentality.

Its pretty clear that you guys think someone has to be in hopeless despair from heroin abuse for someone to qualify as in "withdrawals." Go back and read your own posts. I define withdrawals as negative physical effects occuring upon substance cessation, which is a solid definition. Much more coherent than anything youve managed to put together, at least.

I cant change your minds obviously. But I most certainly feel negative physical effects upon cannabis cessation that last a week or two, that can only be attributed to cannabis use. In my opinion, these effects constitute at least some amount of physical dependence, and therefore withdrawal.
 
I was responding to BennyZA's posts (he seems to have a decent grasp of the issue). Maybe your pointless hostility is resulting from the cannabis withdrawals you're suffering, or maybe it's just my "heroin mindset"......but I will say this: when we're discussing withdrawal symptoms, it never hurts to have a basis for comparison. BTW if you'd been reading my posts, you'd remember I did in fact concede that there is some evidence that the brain can become tolerant to, and dependent on, thc's effects on the cannibinoid receptors, so accusing me of only reading the stuff that confirms my opinions seems a bit...iffy, to me.


Okay, I admit: I did become derailed in my last post.....
 
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I see both points you guys have, but I think at this point the argument is moot. This has reached its logical conclusion as now the discussion is seriously JUST semantics.

I was just bringing up video games because if you want to be technical, if you play a lot of video games and stop you will have "withdrawal symptoms" google video game addiction, some people say it's horrible and that people have died, yet no dictionary referenced below associates withdrawal symptoms with anything but drugs. What I'm doing dankplantgrower is musing on the word's true meaning. It can't really be given a rock solid definition when used in a colloquial setting, it just can't. So it will always mean different things to different people. For some people's vernacular it means deep, physical pain and anguish that temporarily means that life's not liveable - ala dopemegently with his 'heroin mentality.' Dankplantgrower's definition 'negative physical effects occurring upon substance cessation' is his definition, because based on dictionaries you are BOTH right.

Ala Merriam-Webster:
a : the act of taking back or away something that has been granted or possessed
b : removal from a place of deposit or investment
c : the discontinuance of administration or use of a drug
d : the syndrome of often painful physical and psychological symptoms that follows discontinuance of an addicting drug <a heroin addict going through withdrawal>

Ala Cambridge English Dictionary:
a : An act of taking something back, removing something, or moving something back
b : Withdrawal also means the physical and mental effects experienced when a person stops using a drug.

Ala Dictionary.com:
1 : an act or process of withdrawing; retreat, removal, or detachment
2 : the period a drug addict goes through following abrupt termination in the use of narcotics, such as morphine, usually characterized by physical and mental symptoms

While musing about semantics I stumbled upon this: (from Bex, Tony; Richard J. Watts (1999). Standard English: The widening debate found at http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/dick/SEtrudgill2011.pdf)
Standardized English refers to whatever form of the English language is accepted as a national norm in an Anglophone country... Unlike the case of other standard languages, however, there's no official or central regulating body defining Standard English

So, what am I getting too... there is no commonly standardized definition of withdrawal from any regulating agency. All 3 dictionary entries were from different websites, American English (Websters) and English English (Cambridge) are not necessarily going to have the same definition. So... it really doesn't matter what you think, it means whatever you want it to mean. AKA SEMANTICS!

Some people obviously feel something when they come off weed, I haven't, but I'm not calling people liars and I don't think dopemegently is either. It's just, well, semantics at this point.
 
Yeah, it's reached a natural conclusion; any more, and we'd be chasing our own tails, trying to pin this thing down. Also, I agree we're not calling anybody liars: pain is relative to the person suffering, after all.
 
I've posted this in another thread but I feel it's relevant here: cannabis "withdrawals" are psychosomatic in nature ie psychological. Some people are simply prone to dependency issues, and I include myself here. I've experienced heroin withdrawals, and I can say with complete confidence that there are no physical symptoms from stopping cannabis after heavy use, and all objective evidence bears this out.

I have a friend who is a compulsive gambler; if he is unable to gamble for whatever reason, he also experiences psychosomatic withdrawal symptoms: he can't sleep, he can't eat, he becomes agitated, depressed, and on edge. Are these physical symptoms? Yes. Are they caused by "gambling withdrawal symptoms"? No; he simply has an addictive personality, and has become psychologicaly dependent on his particular addiction.

As a previous poster pointed out, it's disrespectful to blame a beneficial and therapeutic herb on our personal dependency issues.


Does a psychosomatic withdrawal symptom make that symptom any less real? Is it caused by anxiety? What is the anxiety caused by? Are psychosomatic withdrawal symptoms a direct or indirect result of cessation of cannabis use or are they even related at all?

This issue delves deeper than most run-of-the-mill stoners think (and I say that generally, I don't mean to insult you, dopemegently. I haven't read everything on page 3 of this thread but, from what I have read, I agree with a lot of what you're saying.)
 
Oh absolutely psychosomatic symptoms make the condition real; if you ask me, that's the addiction in a nutshell-it's the compulsion, the overbearing need to use something. According to statistics, patients prescribed opiates for chronic pain have a significantly lower chance of developing a psychological addiction to them; I find that a strong argument for the "addictive personality".
 
According to statistics, patients prescribed opiates for chronic pain have a significantly lower chance of developing a psychological addiction to them; I find that a strong argument for the "addictive personality".



I can draw a strong parallel to that, actually. I know when I've got weed on hand, my desire to smoke is... err... "dulled," I suppose you could say. I think a big part of my own personal issue is just knowing that I have bud on hand for when I feel like I need to smoke... when it's not conveniently on hand, my mind tends to focus on obtaining it. Not solely on getting some, but pretty strongly... almost to the point where it feels impossible to focus on anything else for a lengthy period of time.

Addiction in a nutshell, I guess.

My confusion on whether it's addiction or dependence comes from being unsure whether or not the changes I feel are a manifestation of my own anxiety or a direct result of not smoking, and that thought process seems to fuck a lot of people up when I explain it to them. That's a big reason why I feel this is an "us against them" situation-- it's almost like my thoughts are fucked in the first place and most people I've discussed it with just can't, don't or won't be able to relate to them.
 
Yeah, it's such a damn complex problem. I mean, some addiction models have clearly defined symptoms for the addicted mind, and a lot of them hold true, but the thing is, everyone of us has a very unique personality; in fact, that's the reason threads like these tend to run in circles, leading many feeling frustrated: one man's truth simply isn't the same for another's. Of course, it's very re-assuring when you meet somebody with a similar story and experience; it happens quite a lot on BL, actualy.

I'm totally with you on that thing where your comfortable if you've got a healthy stash, but kind of obsessed if you have none. It's quite a common feeling, but it doesn't mean you're addicted or dependent, but of course only you can decide that for yourself. If it's a real concern to you, I've found talking to a professional
can really help put these things into perspective for you.
 
There are various levels of cannabis addiction, and only the very highest involve debilitating physical withdrawal symptoms. It is a progressive disease. Most people who smoke weed will never even come close to getting there, but it is possible to develop symptoms akin to mild opiate withdrawals.

I would classify the vivid dreams, maybe a little irritability when not using, as well as ego problems/aggression, and the need to have a stash on hand to be comfortable even if you arn't smoking it that much, as signs that a mild addiction is developing which could possibly progress over time into something more dangerous. Once you develop the compulsive drive to smoke another bong rip even though you are already high, or were just recently high, and it becomes an effort not to give into this, then you know you are on your way. Another sign of the weed taking over would be laziness, even when not stoned.

It took me many years to work my way up to countless untold massive vape and bong rips of oil, hash, and herb from morning until night. It got to the point where if I skipped my morning tokes, then after a mere couple of hours I would be in physical agony. It got to the point where I would need to go multiple days without eating any food whatsoever, resulting in slight malnourishment, in order to reduce my cannabis intake, because if I ate so much as a banana I would puke when it hit my digestive tract which was at a standstill. I would need to battle days insomnia. I would be so fucking incredibly depressed during the initial comedown from binging on the reefer, that I wouldn't even be able to get out of bed. I wasn't sad or anything, it's just that my receptors were downregulated to the point that my brain wasn't really able to operate. The withdrawals were of course physical in nature even in my brain. I was dead inside. I would need to battle extreme anxiety, manifesting in the form of heart palpitations and gut rot. Start puffing, I'd be cured.

Upon getting into it this deep, you wouldn't even have any vivid dream recall for probably around two weeks or so of abstinence. Back when I was only a mild addict, those dreams would come within a day or two of stopping. It wasn't ever a big deal back then, but nowadays, I need at least one week to recover and become a functional human being after stopping, and the withdrawals have become so severe that I am forced to taper off, using fractional amounts for maintenance, because total absinence results in near-psychosis.

Even for someone like me, it is pretty easy in theory to get out of the bad smoking habit. I have been recently watching some documentaries on heroin. The junkies were saying "I'm sick for 3 days. You think I'd want to just go through the sickness and then stop using. Why don't I do this? I just don't know. All I know is I wake up feeling sick every day, and I want to feel normal again." That could be said of my own habit. It's really ever only a few days of miserable torture, when every hour feels like an eternity. But a few days is all it takes. At that point I am no longer smoking herb to get high - I'm doing it to feel normal, so that I can eat food and get sleep. At the fucking expense of my intellect - smoking a lot of weed significantly impairs memory and concentration, that's obvious to anyone who gets really high all day and tries to do something productive. When you really get going with the bong rips, you'll lose yourself. I read without reading when I'm habitually stoned, it's impossible to have the same level of focus. It's easy to keep up this bullshit for ages, since pot culture of the day makes it easy for habitual abusers of the drug to live in denial - and I just had to have my fix, it made so much sense in the short term of things.

I still use the herb every day, but in much smaller amounts. A big old bong rip is not really for me anymore, I vaporize tiny amounts. The strength of my addiction decreases with each day, and my enjoyment of the holy herb has returned. I make sure only to use after I have come down and struggled a bit. Hopefully I will be able to use it once a week someday without having to go through hell on Earth. But staying clean once you're out is another thing altogether. It involves constant respect for the herb, intense moderation and awareness of dosages and dosage times, never ever letting yourself fall out of line. I never worried about this kind of stuff before, since I started using as a stupid teenager with little awareness, and that is how I got hooked. Cannabis is for responsible adults, not kids - starting early strongly increases your chances of ending up with problems controlling your use, in my opinion.
 
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I was thinking about this subject the other day. I originally said I didn't ever get withdrawals, while still true, there is one caveat:

I used to get super stoned all the time in a place where weed was still illegal. When a weed connect would be out, and I was out, I would get pissed and anxious. Try calling everyone I know, etc. I wouldn't count this as anything other than frustration, but I can definitely see how some would consider this withdrawal. I feel like if you expect withdrawals you'll get them. If you don't you won't.

Another thing I've been thinking about is the definition of withdrawal from an opiate addict's perspective (mine included). Hardcore drug users only really associate withdrawals with opiates, benzos, alcohol, and maybe meth. Other than that, most drugs don't have a withdrawal associated with them. Coke doesn't really have a withdrawal, MDMA doesn't really, even meth, the first thing you do is start eating and sleeping a lot. Obviously any subtance discontinued at once will have some sort of physical effect. You might be self medicating and the problem resurfaces after cessation. Another factor is that weed might make you more comfortable and make it so you don't have to deal with any issues you had pre-weed. Once you stop, the symptoms come back, and since you are no longer used to the symptoms they feel more pronounced. Another thing is that you can just be pissed that you cant smoke anymore.

I will say this, again. I don't doubt people who say they have some discontinuation issues, but I think more often than not, people don't really have much of an issue.
 
ok so im pretty sure its in all your heads I laughed when I saw this title, ive been smoking 3 times a day for at least 3 years sometimes more sometimes less. this summer I smoked from the time I woke up usually 9-10 till I went to bed usually around midnight. that's 14 hours of toking a day for 2 months straight with no breaks. I then took a week and a half break with 0 down side other than being bored. I had panic attacks before I started smoking and smoking takes em away but I have them during breaks. maybe your problems are normal and smoking just cures them so know your noticing them.
 
I am really stoned now, and I do not even agree with what I previously wrote down. There are various contradictions between my sober self and my stoned self. Perhaps merging into a new, more highstrung version of myself is even more uncomfortable than my body's withdrawals. It sucks because I say and do things in withdrawal that I regret when I start smoking weed again, because they are just way too intense for me when I am usually a chill, not-very-opinionated doper. I am really uncomfortable with how I behave when I'm sober or cutting back, in the blissed out state of mind I am presently in. However, when I am sober, I am not so cool with the casual, laid back guy I am presently. Since these energies are incompatible, is maybe why I find it so tough to use weed in moderation. However, I am going to continue tapering off because using cannabis at this rate obviously is not good for my mental health. Using cannabis at lower doses allows me to keep my personality from changing into that of a major burnout, while getting just enough of a fix to ward off withdrawals. The uncomfortable intensity of my personality will slowly taper off as I become less and less addicted, until eventually I will be the chill sober guy I used to be - I have quit cold turkey for months before so I know this to be true.

It just sucks because this has totally ruined my life. I am happy to be free of all other substances, but with this one I just cannot quit. And it has disrupted my daily life to the point that it would take months of physical discomfort and insane willpower to recover. If I could go back in time, I would be better off having never touched drugs, because before I ever started smoking weed I didn't need it. I am a slave to the herb, and three times a day isn't even enough. It has to be constant, habitual use or I will suffer. I feel like a big junkie. I never thought this was a possibility in my early days of smoking. I worry that I may have to give rehab a try. Not yet, but possibly eventually if things do not change. I mean, I've been quitting for years and this uncontrollable habit has fucked my life in so many ways. I used to be healthy and well, now every day is a struggle unless I'm useless and baked.

This is not my fault. I started young. The influence of the dealer's drive to profit, as well as that of the will of the cannabis plant to survive in this industrialized world are prevalent. However, how I choose to deal with this is my own. And as of yet, I have chosen to throw it all away, because there is a process that I must endure that I have but putting off, which is both physical and mental agony. It takes more than a couple of weeks to get out of this. I smoke about 30 bong rips per day of the illest primo, and my bong rips are on the grow.
 
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I was thinking about this subject the other day. I originally said I didn't ever get withdrawals, while still true, there is one caveat:

I used to get super stoned all the time in a place where weed was still illegal. When a weed connect would be out, and I was out, I would get pissed and anxious. Try calling everyone I know, etc. I wouldn't count this as anything other than frustration, but I can definitely see how some would consider this withdrawal. I feel like if you expect withdrawals you'll get them. If you don't you won't.

Another thing I've been thinking about is the definition of withdrawal from an opiate addict's perspective (mine included). Hardcore drug users only really associate withdrawals with opiates, benzos, alcohol, and maybe meth. Other than that, most drugs don't have a withdrawal associated with them. Coke doesn't really have a withdrawal, MDMA doesn't really, even meth, the first thing you do is start eating and sleeping a lot. Obviously any subtance discontinued at once will have some sort of physical effect. You might be self medicating and the problem resurfaces after cessation. Another factor is that weed might make you more comfortable and make it so you don't have to deal with any issues you had pre-weed. Once you stop, the symptoms come back, and since you are no longer used to the symptoms they feel more pronounced. Another thing is that you can just be pissed that you cant smoke anymore.

I will say this, again. I don't doubt people who say they have some discontinuation issues, but I think more often than not, people don't really have much of an issue.

hey Bro---- i hav use INDACS.. NO SATIVA.... it helps a lot.. but be sure there is no Sativa in the pot... use pure Afghan; uzbekistan,Tajdilistan, maroccco.. then taper of. Good luck
 
ok so im pretty sure its in all your heads I laughed when I saw this title, ive been smoking 3 times a day for at least 3 years sometimes more sometimes less. this summer I smoked from the time I woke up usually 9-10 till I went to bed usually around midnight. that's 14 hours of toking a day for 2 months straight with no breaks. I then took a week and a half break with 0 down side other than being bored. I had panic attacks before I started smoking and smoking takes em away but I have them during breaks. maybe your problems are normal and smoking just cures them so know your noticing them.

Oh so you didn't get any withdrawal symptoms so nobody else does? Well here is my anecdotal experience to the contrary. One of the reasons I smoke weed is to stablize my mood.

I've been to the mental hospital a whole bunch of times. Nearly every time I went I had run out of weed. I didn't notice the correlation until after many visits to the hospital. It's happened enough times I think I've proved causation by this point.
 
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