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is it possible to reverse paradoxical reactions to benzodiazepines?

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doctordog

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Joined
Feb 13, 2011
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I found a post from someone online who claims he did this with Quercetin, though only tested the combination once.

here's the quote:

GABA receptors are strange beasts. I used to have paradox reactions to benzodiazepines and related substances (got overexcited and aggressive). Now that I'm taking quercetin, which in theory should make it even worse by promoting choride transport into the cells resulting in outward directed chloride current through GABA receptors instead of inward-directed current, this paradox reaction is gone (tried it once, just because I was interested).
Bacopa upregulates GABA receptors.
But one never knows whether messing more with these receptors will make it better or worse.
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I ask because I react paradoxically to benzodiazepines and had a bad experience with Riluzole recently, while trying to treat my severe OCD; Riluzole reduces glutamate release and acts on post-synaptic GABA(A) receptors I believe.
 
There are tons of case studies of susceptible individuals having very adverse reactions. Some take the standard hospital lorazepam and violently attack nurses.
 
a few of the people I've met have (based on what they told me) had similar reactions to benzos--though it seems to be rare. probably related to the fact that some people become aggressive when drinking; the dis-inhibition seems to bring out hidden aspects of their personality, implying the effect has a psychological cause

(psychological meaning we don't yet have a good physiological explanation for it)
 
tweex said:
I'd be absolutely fascinated what a dose of a benzo antagonist or inverse benzo agonist would do to you... from a scientific perspective ;)
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You mean Flumazenil?

Absolutely nothing unless you've taken a benzo.

I haven't heard of any inverse benzo agonists though (or more accurately negative allosteric modulator at the BZD site of the GABA-a receptor. OK I see why you went with inverse agonist)
 
When I was on benzos, I used to get extremely depressed and agitated, and even get that impending feeling of dread/doom akin to panic/anxiety attacks which benzos are paradoxically used to treat. Sometimes I'd randomly act out violently.. I'd even steal sometimes, which is incredibly unlike me. I don't think it's a pharmacological issue as much as it is psychological; because when I took benzos for what I was actually prescribed them for (panic attacks) they did what they were supposed to do and I went about my day.. It was usually when I was looking for something/anything to change my state of mind and elected taking 5mg of clonazepam/lorazepam/alprazolam.

I really think it's psychological and not pharmacological. If you use benzos for what they're meant for, they don't end up being paradoxical. They will halt real anxiety/panic attacks. They will stop seizures. They will do wonders to treat any sort of stimulant/psychedelic overdose/episode. It's when you use them out of boredom or for recreation that they turn in to a demon.

BTW a "real" panic attack is actually thinking you're about to die or that something is killing/poisoning you or whatever, not just "I'm so depressed/bored I'm going insane".. Just in my experience, that's when taking benzos was a bad idea, when I was just bored/depressed and agitated from being bored/depressed, and taking a benzo when you're under-stimulated is like taking speed to try to get to sleep -- it doesn't work.
 
I've been taking 1mg of clonazepam three times daily and it seems that if I take 2, 3, 4, or even 5 milligrams of klonopin during the day it doesn't make a difference on my mood, besides for possibly making me a little more tired. My anxiety seems to be the same, obviously the klonopin reduces it compared to nothing, but I have been on it for over 2 years. Could it be tolerance or should I consider changing/trying a new benzo? I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder & OCD. Thanks you
 
endotropic said:
You mean Flumazenil?

Absolutely nothing unless you've taken a benzo.
Click to expand...

Maybe not, actually: http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/4/161/161ra151

endotropic said:
I haven't heard of any inverse benzo agonists though (or more accurately negative allosteric modulator at the BZD site of the GABA-a receptor. OK I see why you went with inverse agonist)
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There are actually a fair number: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:GABAergics

Although none of them have made it out of clinical trials yet.
 
I don't believe it's psychological .. it's true that alcohol will have variable effects depending on my underlying mood (e.g. more aggressive when already so), but alcohol isn't structurally identical to benzodiazepines ..

I've never abused benzodiazepines -- they've always been prescribed for anxiety/panic -- and they will always make me more anxious, agitated and aggressive with time; they are calming with the first dose, but I think that's due to the transient sedative properties.

the most horrible experience I had was when I was prescribed lorazepam .. due to the short half-life, I ended up 'stuck' on it and couldn't sleep, yet trying to wean off would send me into absurd withdrawals. I stayed awake for 5 days trying to come off it -- my shitty psychiatrist at the time wouldn't return my emails; I kept hoping sleep would eventually come, but it never did and I finally dragged myself to my GP on the 5th day when my heart was beating insanely fast .. he gave me melatonin and I finally slept that night.

anyway, I have some Quercetin on the way and plan to test the combination. I'll report back here with the results.
 
endotropic said:
You mean Flumazenil?

Absolutely nothing unless you've taken a benzo.

I haven't heard of any inverse benzo agonists though (or more accurately negative allosteric modulator at the BZD site of the GABA-a receptor. OK I see why you went with inverse agonist)
Click to expand...
Benzo antagonists would do nothing unless you've built some dependence on benzos up, but GABAa NAMs (inverse benzos) such as Ro15-4513, DMCM, and a few other B-Carbolines are well known to cause panic/anxiety and convulsions.
 
dingophone said:
GABAa NAMs (inverse benzos) such as Ro15-4513, DMCM, and a few other B-Carbolines are well known to cause panic/anxiety and convulsions.
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Some are anxiogenic, and some even cause seizures. But not all of them. Alpha 5 GABA inverse agonists like α5IA and TB-21007 are pretty promising nootropics, actually. Now if you fed them to OP, I wonder if they'd (temporarily) make him a drooling vegetable or not :D

endotropic said:
That's really interesting actually. Unless I'm misreading, that study suggests that some endogenous component in CSF is acting as a BZD agonist?
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Would appear so!
 
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