Nbome: Cross tolerance with first LSD trip.

[RoomforJello]

Ok after researching and finding out about the amount of deaths now attributed to the nbomes, I perhaps did a very stupid thing by taking a large dose of 25B-nbome around 6.25mg(3.75mg to start and 2.5mg to extend) in total sublingually.

But my question is how long will I have to wait till dosing LSD?

Planning on waiting two and a half weeks which would be IMO be fine for an average Nbome dose.
I know its going to have cross tolerance but don't know how severe and whether not to double dose(supposedly 110ug tabs).

This will be my first time trying LSD and I know I probably shouldn't double dose(can do more but not less and all that) but its more to get past the tolerance, or do you think thats long enough to wait?
Also part of me thinks I'd be fine at that dose considering my last 25B trip, which was pretty intense to say the least.

So thoughts?

 

[pmoseman]

Why put so much effort into this?

 

[RoomforJello]

How do you mean?
Was just trying to give as much info I felt needed as to get the best advice.
Edit: Ok in hindsight, probably didn't need to go in to detail on some of the dose specifics but maybe someone has been in the same situation and I probably shouldn't have ended with "so thoughts?" to avoid well, this.

 

[pmoseman]

No. Details are good. Through the details people can answer your questions.
I am talking about finding out how quickly you can do it without missing any of the buzz.

 

[kidklmx]

You're probably fine after 2 weeks, but (and I think pmoseman is trying to say the same thing) after such an intense trip it's best not to seek the limits of your tolerance and give yourself some time to work things out. You might not be missing much of the buzz, but the quality of the trip will greatly improve if you wait for a while. (even just a month after your last dose is good)

On another note, always start low when testing out a new substance. Even though 2 hits is probably fine and will guarantee you have a nice trip (as opposed to "not quite" from 1 tab), just a better idea to get a general feel for the substance first and judge further endeavors based on that. Given the fact that you've tried 6.2mg of 25B, you're not really in the need for another ass-kicking anyway

 

[RoomforJello]

No. Details are good. Through the details people can answer your questions.
I am talking about finding out how quickly you can do it without missing any of the buzz.

Ahh ok, well its my birthday soon and I wanted to do something different but you and kidklmx are probably right and I should take a longer break.
Maybe I'll just get some MDMA or something instead.
On the NBOME trip, its was an intense trip, loads of visuals and the come up was unbelievably euphoric, but my head was always in a safe place no thought loops, laughed through a lot of it and didn't even have a nasty come down or any bad after effects.
But yeah I see your point I should give my receptors time to heal.
Thanks.

 

[Dev0r]

Glad you enjoyed 25b, it's the best nbome IMO.


ANd the deaths are mainly associated with 25i.

I've insuffulated just short of 10mg once and was perfectly fine (but couldnt see reality worth a shit)

I also know someone who's insuffilated between 40-60mg of 25c and was hospitalized but made it out perfectly fine, he was just bugging the fuck out.. which is expected.
(but at that high of a dose hes really lucky he didnt lose limbs or something)

and I also know someone who IV'd about 22mg of 25b for god knows why and he's OK but that's because his girlfriend found him and kept him concious and from hurting himself.


Obviously these dumbasses, and myself, are awful examples of harm reduction. but it's definately a "what not to do" from my experience.






And as far as your question about LSD goes, If you're used to 3+mg of 25b, you need to realize thats like 15-30 hits of LSD depending on how you look at it.

100-300ug might not do a whole lot. Or you might not enjoy the thought loops it can create sometimes.

TBH i like 25b better than LSD or 25i/25c.
DOC is up there with 25b though.

Call me wierd, I guess. I just don't like psychosis, I like revelations and visuals.

I've yet to try some other lysergisides though.

 

[RoomforJello]

25b is fun and insanely visual at high doses, also like 25c and 25i(only tried once and it was a combo of 25c and 25i) but I think I should stay away for health reasons. Still have some tabs and will probably finish them but after that I am probably going to switch to at least tried and tested chemicals, the RC scene is starting to scare me. Saying that the 2C-x series is tempting me but these at least have a better safety profile than the nbomes.

Also I think most of the deaths have been from ridiculous doses and who's to say it was even these chemicals that did it, mephedrone in the UK got blamed for several deaths but most if not all turned out to be methadone or drug combinations that did it. The media love to stir of controversy and fear, its the best way to sell their (usually) shitty reporting. Still advise playing it safe with nbomes though as your post kinda proves lol.

I'm more into the visuals when it comes to tripping so maybe other trips are better suited towards this than acid, but theres only one way to find out whether its something I will enjoy.

 

[Solipsis]

The 2 weeks suggestion sounds okay, that was what I was gonna propose as well. Initially when there was a surge in NBOMe popularity the waiting period due to tolerance was considered to be 2 weeks instead of the normal 1 week. Later this was called into question. Anyway the stronger a dose is the more pronounced tolerance may be so I would definitely wait those 2 weeks, if not 3 to be certain (well, more 'certain'). But there isn't really enough data on this to give proper prognoses... there have been plenty of cases where people did mushrooms or LSD once and considered their tolerance or where frequent users of those drugs did... but people who have incidentally dosed very high on 25B, that doesn't have an extensive history...

 

[RoomforJello]

Yeah personally I think two and half weeks like I panned would be ok for say a 2mg 25B dose, but going over 5mg you would be better leaving it at least 3 to 4 weeks.
Also I didn't mention that I have been nbomes bi-monthly(reason for the large dose) for a while so I really should leave it longer.
Will probably leave it a full month and try and let my tolerance go down as much as possible.

 

[Solipsis]

Be aware that it has been documented sensitivity to 25B can vary an order of magnitude i.e. about 10 times or more! Meaning for people messing with high doses of these compounds that if it means it varies between individuals it may be fine and people can find their own sweet spot if they are careful, but it there are other factors that could mean your end.

Take it easy.

 

[RoomforJello]

I usually stick to around 2.5mg which is fun and trippy. That high dose was probably stupid but wasn't all in one, I only re-dosed because I liked where I was at.

As a HR point, try not to re-dose nbomes at all, this seems to be what leads to vasoconstriction problems, its happen with both B and C nbomes only after re-dosing. For me anyway and I should point out for anyone else this wasn't a perfect trip, towards the end my leg muscles became very painful, like someone had been hitting them. However this could have been mostly mental as when I began to ignore it the pain eventually went away.

 

[kidklmx]

I must ask though, at what doses did you start doing NBOMes? I did find some lasting tolerance from a bit of abuse, maybe it's the same if you do loads of high doses. You're probably very insensitive, but it could have something to do with your high doses.

And no, not really on the redose thing. Think it has more to do with the total dose in your body than anything. Haven't done 25B, but with 25i and 25c I seem to get very noticeable vasoconstriction (cold extremities) and some muscle contraction around 1.2mg and 1mg respectively and others have noted similar things. Just a reminder for all to be careful with the dosages, and I wouldn't recommend redosing either.

 

[RoomforJello]

I must ask though, at what doses did you start doing NBOMes? I did find some lasting tolerance from a bit of abuse, maybe it's the same if you do loads of high doses. You're probably very insensitive, but it could have something to do with your high doses.

And no, not really on the redose thing. Think it has more to do with the total dose in your body than anything. Haven't done 25B, but with 25i and 25c I seem to get very noticeable vasoconstriction (cold extremities) and some muscle contraction around 1.2mg and 1mg respectively and others have noted similar things. Just a reminder for all to be careful with the dosages, and I wouldn't recommend redosing either.

The first tabs I used where 550ug, 500ug and 750ug for 25I, 25C and 25B respectively and those are the doses I started at for all. So I've kinda built myself up to do higher doses.
It probably is total dose, but it always seems to become apparent when I re-dose. For example I was fine at 2mg of 25C without re-dosing but when I took 1.5mg and re-dosed with a further 1mg the vasco effects became apparent.
The same for my 25C and 25I combo I started with 1.1mg of 25I and the added a 500ug 25C tab on top at around the two hour mark, it wasn't till I took another 25C tab at around the 6 hour mark that I started to feel cold hands/feet.
Also I know the doses don't really help my argument, but its just me personally, maybe its just become a mental thing for me who knows.

I'm not saying is gonna be the same for everyone but it seems its only when I re-dose, as I had no problems at all 3.25mg of 25B and other high doses without dosing again.
But either way as a HR point you probably shouldn't re-dose whether it being a dose specific thing as you say or a re-dose thing, as you could be fine at you original starting dose, but then the second puts you in dangerous territory.

Edit:I just re-read my own post and yeah it just seems to back up your point that it is about dosage, but you still shouldn't re-dose for previous reason stated. I was just trying to say that my only vasoconstriction problems arose after re-dosing.
Feel kinda retarded after that, but oh well.

 

[Dev0r]

I really suggest 4-ho-met, 4-ho-mipt.

they seem cleaner/safer than phenethylamines like nbome and 2c. and theyre more relaxed and visual and not as mind-warping as L can be.


Also as Solipsis said

25b is unique though as it seems some people ARE effected by it much stronger than others (i felt relatively sober minus reality changing into different things constantly.. on ~8mg) but others talk to themselves and go batshit on 1.5mg.
Also alchohol seems to convert 25b into something different in the body.

This has been documented with DOB "Additionally, unique to this compound, the amount of time it takes for the DOB effects to begin increases with the larger of a dose taken, especially when used in conjunction with alcohol."
(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,5-dimethoxy-4-bromoamphetamine)
or alter it's absortion. however with 25b it seems to turn the chemical into a deleriant of some form.

 

[RoomforJello]

I haven't really researched into the 4-ho "series". Will probably go through the big dandys and erowid closer to when I try each of them and have more time. But they sound interesting from your brief description.

That would probably explain why my friends had such varying trips from the same dose. No one went batshit but it did seem others seemed a bit more fucked up than me.

My first experience with 25b was with alcohol(not a lot, about 5 pints plus food) but I never really seen much difference between trips after that, it was a pretty strong trip but it was my first time using 25b and I didn't really plan this it just kinda happened.

There was another time when I drank alcohol with it, but I didn't even trip, and my stomach felt weird for a while, so I never tried it again. Seems like a bad combo anyway.

Also this seems to have just turned into a general nbome thread maybe a Mod will merge it with the B&D but I dunno.

 

[kidklmx]

This has been documented with DOB "Additionally, unique to this compound, the amount of time it takes for the DOB effects to begin increases with the larger of a dose taken, especially when used in conjunction with alcohol."
(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,5-dimethoxy-4-bromoamphetamine)
or alter it's absortion. however with 25b it seems to turn the chemical into a deleriant of some form.

Based on what, though? Never knew the unique action of DOB, but seemingly GHB doesn't seem to work when on it. It is also suggested that DOB is a prodrug, metabolized in the lungs. So given that Alcohol and GHB are, well not really similar, but related in action, it or it's metabolites could maybe alter the metabolism of DOB.

Don't think that's the case though, take at look at the source. There's nothing that states such a thing on the Erowid page, just that it's effect is longer when taking a higher dose (like with all the DOx's and even LSD). Possibly alcohol's depressant action hinders the subjective effects to become apparent, which isn't really that different from other psychedelics. Though the NBOMes do have action at GABA*, so drinking a lot of alcohol could be contraindicated and may cause the deliriant-like effect you note. Again though, this is pure speculation on my part but it could explain why I'm extremely sensitive to alcohol on NBOMes (to the point where 2-3 beers get me tipsy) whereas with other psychedelics I'm not.

*Actually scratch that, can't seem to find anything on that but I do remember something about gabaergics possibly not being a good idea with NBOMes. Maybe my brain is playing tricks on me though. Still, the effect of alcohol on NBOMes compared to other psychedelics is something to be noted. But it could also be psychological, I've only drunken on NBOMes a few times and just once on LSD. Maybe I get intoxicated faster on 4-Aco-DMT too, seeing as it gives me a pronounced vertigo-like effect, but I can't imagine drinking a beer when I'm in that space..

Btw, I did finds one post on the shroomery that stated it's a GABAa agonist, he can't be pulling that out of thin air just for the sake of it.