• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

Nicotine isn't "Very" addictive

First, nicotine is primarily metabolized via P450, not MAO.

Second, the Wikipedia entry you changed is blatantly false now. Nicotine is absolutely and undisputedly addictive. But your edit says it is not significantly so. Perhaps you're unaware but if you say that something is not significant in a scientific sense you're saying that there is no statistically significant correlation between it and addiction. That is a lie, and though I can't seem to load the full text on my Fire HD, from the abstract they don't seem to make that claim either.

I'm not sure of the significance of the schizophrenia study at all.

There is not enough evidence to support your claim and its far premature to start editing a source like Wikipedia.
 
Sounds like a brilliant idea. 10x more addictive and minor headrush inducing!
 
now, the e-cig headrush can be a bit weaker at equivalent doses of nicotine. The full-spectrum tobacco extract e-juice is a good test of what might be going on.

ebola
 
First, nicotine is primarily metabolized via P450, not MAO.

No.

Nicotine is not primarily metabolized by CYP3A4. That's just my point, Wikipedia is WRONG! Nicotine metabolism is almost entirely MAO-A mediated. How about instead of busting my balls you stop being an ignorant narc and do your own research? Just as Amphetamine is slightly metabolized by CYP3A4, Nicotine is only slightly metabolized by CYP. You need to stop commenting on everything I post just so you can be an ass. I guarantee you'll be much happier if you do that, but more importantly, I'll be happier.

Second, the Wikipedia entry you changed is blatantly false now. Nicotine is absolutely and undisputedly addictive. But your edit says it is not significantly so. Perhaps you're unaware but if you say that something is not significant in a scientific sense you're saying that there is no statistically significant correlation between it and addiction. That is a lie, and though I can't seem to load the full text on my Fire HD, from the abstract they don't seem to make that claim either.

The Wikipedia article hasn't been changed yet, due to idiots like you. People will buy into the media, just like you, and believe everything they're told without doing the research. The studies say that Nicotine is much more addictive when administered with the other compounds found in Tobacco. Whereas, by itself, it's only moderately addictive. However, moderately addictive still means MODERATELY ADDICTIVE! I never said that Nicotine isn't addictive at all if it isn't Tobacco - it is, however, LESS ADDICTIVE!

Read my fucking post!!!!!!!

Since you can't read, I'll say it again. I said Nicotine is MODERATELY addictive when administered by itself. I NEVER tried to make the claim that it isn't addictive. You need to read my entire post before you make assumptions that make you look like a pompous ass

I'm not sure of the significance of the schizophrenia study at all.

Because you're basing this stupid reply entirely off of prior knowledge. If you had done the research, you would read HUNDREDS of studies that disagree with you. Also, I said nothing about Nicotine and schizophrenia in my post - which is another indication of you making assumptions and not reading my post, which automatically makes your point invalid.

There is not enough evidence to support your claim and its far premature to start editing a source like Wikipedia.

Guess again.

You convinced me to edit it right now. I have 5 sources that disagree with you, and no sources that claim that nicotine is just as addictive when administered by itself.
[edit: removed obnoxious ranting and huge bold formatting. ~atara]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
No.

Nicotine is not primarily metabolized by CYP3A4.

It's metabolised by CYP2A6:

http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/29/2/91.short

Monoamine oxidase inhibition does not contribute to addiction by prolonging the duration of the chemical. Note that the following article makes no mention of inhibiting nicotine metabolism. Rather, the greater availability of dopamine in the brain is thought to increase the sensitivity of the reward pathway. See:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0161813X06001185

That's just my point, Wikipedia is WRONG! Nicotine metabolism is almost entirely MAO-A mediated. How about instead of busting my balls you stop being an ignorant narc and do your own research?

Hint: guys, this is how to get yourself in to hot water. Please, be civil.

Just as Amphetamine is slightly metabolized by CYP3A4, Nicotine is only slightly metabolized by CYP. You need to stop commenting on everything I post just so you can be an ass. I guarantee you'll be much happier if you do that, but more importantly, I'll be happier.

And this is how to get a warning.

The Wikipedia article hasn't been changed yet, due to idiots like you.

And this is how to get an infraction. What did we learn today, kids? Step 1 to ADD: no flamewars.
 
Bit of false equivalency, there, I haven't said anything not civil, so please direct nothing my way.


1) as atara has already pointed out, nicotine is not metabolized by MAO, it's metabolism is hepatic.

2) you said you didn't say anything about schizophrenia. True, technically, however, the first link you cite is a study about nicotine and schizophrenia. What is the relevance? It seems to contradict your thesis.

if you had not edited the Wikipedia entry for nicotine, then I'm entirely confused about the point of this thread, because if you didn't, then Wikipedia already contained erroneous information that said nicotine itself isn't significantly addictive. Forgive me for assuming that you hadn't started a thread asking for comment on a proposed change to an entry when the article already said what you wanted it to say, and instead making the assumption that the information that said exactly what you wanted it to say was added by you and not there before this thread. I'm not sure why we're having this conversation or why this thread was needed when the article evidently said what you wanted it to all along.

I didn't realize this was a discussion about whether or not nicotine was equally addictive compared to nicotine plus maoi. I didn't make that claim, however, the title of this thread says it isn't very addictive. That's simply false, as that first study you cited shows (not that it would be a useful study either way, studying how addictive something is in a damaged brain shouldn't be extended to normal brains ordinarily). Nicotine is habit forming, simply put. Adding an maoi may make it more so, but even singly it is verifiably false to claim that it isn't very addictive.

I doubt that there are hundreds of studies showing that nicotine singly verse nicotine plus maoi is greatly more reinforcing, but I have no doubt that it is. It is still habit forming, and if you're saying there are hundreds of studies that say nicotine isn't reinforcing, full stop, without an maoi, I would love to see that list of citations.

I have no problem with claims maoi makes nicotine or morphine or any number of drugs more addictive. I do dispute the veracity of the current Wikipedia entry which states that nicotine isn't significantly addictive on it's own because with no doubt there is a clear statistical correlation between nicotine itself and addiction in animal studies.

I'm not sure what your problem with me is. This was a thread, apparently, about making a change to an article that already said what you wanted it to say, but which at a minimum says it in a way that is technically inaccurate. It could read that nicotine itself is less addictive than tobacco products due to MAO inhibition. I was responding, perfectly civilly, with an assumption that anyone would make. Would you prefer me to erroneously assume that you added that section or to accurately assume that you made a redundant thread asking about a proposed 'change' to an entry that already says exactly what you wanted it to?

(Lol, I just discovered that my kindle's spell check has the word inhibition as inhi-g-ion - without the hyphens of course, but I don't want it to go back to thinking that spelling is a word.)
 
Smoking play a role in addiction too, a few years ago I been smoking weed for 2 years and had to quit cold turkey, I had psychological withdrawal from it but not smoking was an issue for me so I started smoking cigarettes to get rid of that. I smoked cigarettes for about 2 months and quit cold turkey without any symptoms. I dont know if 2 months is enough to get addict to cigarettes but personally I dont really like Nicotine, it just makes me dizzy.
 
Ive been on Ecigs for 2 weeks now. From 25 cigarets a day to 1 to 2 . Ecigs don't satisfy the cig-smoker cravings 100% (as earlier stated with other quitting products). Still out of all of them, Ecigs have worked the best for me.

now, the e-cig headrush can be a bit weaker at equivalent doses of nicotine. The full-spectrum tobacco extract e-juice is a good test of what might be going on.

Disagree. I managed to cut from 12mg to 6-2mg
 
I never found nicotine to be terribly addictive in cigarettes, I smoked for a 4 years and quit two months ago (weird I know)
But recently I've taken up chewing tobacco to help ease stress when studying and it can be pretty relaxing, and I find it much more addictive in chewing tobacco than cigarettes.
Possibly it has to do with the side effects I got from cigarettes like nausea or occasional headaches.
Smoking a cigarette usually just makes me feel like shit, chew is much better way of administering nicotine, although it isn't too nice on your mouth. (uggghhhhh why do I still use tobacco products haha)
 
I get the message from other threads... If you're gonna mess around with MAOI's, you're gonna have a bad time. Damn I love this forum! I wonder if more people would quit, or at least vape if this info was printed on packets rather than the usual morbid snuff pics.
 
I see where the misunderstanding occurred now.

The name of the thread should have been "Nicotine is only moderately addictive when not consumed with the other extracts of Tobacco." My thread was supposed to reflect that Nicotine only has a moderate dependence liability when administered by itself. The Wikipedia article which claims it's "Very Addictive" is incorrect as it only encompasses when Nicotine is administered as Tobacco and not by itself.
 
The Wikipedia article has or had very recently a section that specifically addressed your concerns. That's where the real confusion lies for me.

Yeah, hasn't been altered. Fourth paragraph of the psychoactive effects section. It's inaccurate, though, given that nicotine is demonstrably addictive, the use of the word significant in the paragraph is the problem. In a scientific paper saying something is not significant means it doesn't rise to the level of statistical significance, which it does. That section could be reworded but otherwise the article seems sound.
 
Last edited:
Tobacco is more reinforcing than nicotine is alone. Nicotine is non addictive. The second doesn't follow from the first.

ebola
 
I guess it depends on the person, I don't understand how people can get so addicted to the shitty tobacco buzz. I'm addicted to benzos which imo are far more addictive (but then I may be biased as I have anxiety disorder). Smokers who say cigs are as addictive as heroin make me laugh, yeah I understand what you feel like being addicted but heroin? Give me a break.
 
I quit smoking using ecigs. It was harder giving up the regular smokes than the ecigs. I go days without even thinking about using the ecig. In my experience, smoking regular tabac products was more addictive than ecigs. So I'm gonna have to agree with swamp fox.
 
You know, I'm actually wondering how many studies are out there demonstrating the addictive potential of various ROIs. I don't think one can dispute that nicotine is an addictive chemical, but study wise I don't see a whole lot trying to sort out the whole equation.

Example: Anecdotally, I really don't see a whole lot of cigar smokers who venture out of only an occasional smoke. They certainly don't have that that physical dependence and craving that seems to belong to a large portion of standard cigarette smokers.

This seems to be a subject where puritanism and focus on the trees (the nicotine chemical) vs. the forest (the whole product) seems to fog the conversation even with the science / health folks. Googling the official national positions, cigars almost are listed as just as dangerous if not *more* dangerous than cigs, and just as addictive, etc. They both contain nicotine, yes. But then, I witness relatively few cigar smokers getting addicted. The two positions do not compute. There are differences that could explain it (ROI as cigars are chewed usually and the smoke is not inhaled, different compositions as cigars are usually fermented where cigarettes are not, etc.) but health departments prefer demonization I guess.

E-cigs may have the addictive nicotine chemical, but they still may not be quite as addictive as regular cigarettes due to some unknown other factors. There isn't a whole lot of studies to say one way or another, but as long as the focus is on *just* nicotine, nobody ever will know.

I definitely do not agree with any nannyism push to ban e-cigs (just simply apply tobacco age regulation to them). As far as I'm concerned, it's pretty clear that nicotine alone is *quite a bit* healthier on the body than a smoke combustion product.
 
thanatos said:
Smokers who say cigs are as addictive as heroin make me laugh

Well, cigs are more addictive in terms of relapse rate, but this is in part socially determined, due to ready availability and social acceptability. No one is claiming that nicotine withdrawal feels worse than withdrawal from strong opioids. But there is a number of ex-heroin addicts ex-smokers who claim that quitting the latter was harder.

ebola
 
Top