Heroin First time going through full blown Heroin withdrawal

[aesthetics13]

Hello everyone, basically my story never included opiates, I was a full blown alcoholic (12-24) units a day for about 15 years which recently I quit cold turkey and found success with no treatment, It was a living hell and fight for my life but I made it.

About a year ago I tried H, I was able to do it just once in a while with no addiction / withdrawals. Around the end of June this year I began using more frequently, about 3 times a week. I didn't want to become addicted so I stopped all together and expirienced minor withdrawals symptoms including insomnia, headache, itchy throat & sneezing but that was about it. About a week later I began using again thus thinking the withdrawal was not that bad, boy was I wrong. I began using 2-3 bags a day all the way through July and all the way through September till I stopped all together 6 days ago. My friend told me one 8mg Suboxone would take me through the withdrawal but I had to wait 24 hours to take it. Well I did my last bag at 9pm, then started the 24 hour count. By the morning I was in agony, major anxiety, trying to hold off not having a panic attack, depression, really bad headache and my body was twitching, I couldn't stay still, felt cold, runny nose, itchy throat sneezes, it was horrible. Well the 24 hours passed and I laid down for a sec to see if I could sleep so I could take the sub in the morning, nope, my body was having major spasms and I couldn't stay still. 10 Mins later I took 2mg of the sub then proceeded to get in the shower, I stayed in the shower for about 25 mins, got out and laid back down, and it all went away I was able to fall right asleep. The next morning at 5:30 am before work I ate another 2mg and that held me pretty well throughout the day with no problem. The next day I ate another 2mg and was fine all day, so 6 mg so far. The following morning I tried to jump thinking the H was completely out of my system and the withdrawals would be over, but by afternoon the symptoms came back but not as intense, so I ate 1mg of the sub, and that held me through the day. The following morning I went to work and attempted to jump, I felt fine but I still had a really bad headache and the depression and anxiety was back so I ate my last 1mg of the sub. Way later in the evening I thought this should all be over it's been 5 days the H is gone. But I still felt kinda shitty, then my friend told me that he went through the same thing and he recommended doing one more bag of H to come out of it, I thought that sounded asinine but he swore by it so I did it. So now I woke up on day 6 and it's 11:49am right now and I feel much better the withdrawals are gone! And I know after 5 days with no H it was out of my system, and 1 bag ain't enough to get withdrawals from again, and when I was using I would do a bag at night and I would have withdrawal by the morning, but this time nothing! I still feel a little shitty but no withdrawal! Somehow the thing that got me in this mess got me out of it, irony at its finest right there.

Here was my regimen.

I did 2-3 bags per day for a little over 2 months (insufflated), then stopped all together.

Had one single 8 mg Sub, waited 24 hours, then.

Day 1: 2mg
Day 2: 2mg
Day 3: 2mg
Day 4: 1mg
Day 5: 1mg

Then 1 bag of H, now the next day and I'm fine.

also is that enough sub to make me feel withdrawal from that in a couple days? I would think it's not.

I think, I'm good.. Opinion's?

 

[cj]

You will be sick soon enough. The sub has a 36 hour halflife. It may still be holding you or it could be the heroin from yesterday holding you. Its not gonna be horrible withdrawals but I would expect some discomfort. Get some weed and benzos. Youll be ok.

 

[pinpoint]

I'm fine.

Famous last words

 

[aesthetics13]

You will be sick soon enough. The sub has a 36 hour halflife. It may still be holding you or it could be the heroin from yesterday holding you. Its not gonna be horrible withdrawals but I would expect some discomfort. Get some weed and benzos. Youll be ok.

Thanks man. I know the sub's half life is 36 hr, but one single 8mg dose of suboxone over 5 days ain't enough to bring withdrawal, or is it?

I think I may have dodged the bullet, or at least I know I dodged the worst of it. I only insufflated very small amounts of H over a couple months and I been detoxing off it for 6 days, the sub just masked it, trust me I could still feel the discomfort. I would feel withdrawal when I was using H about 6-7 hours after my last dose so it cant be the H holdin' me. I know my own body and I'm pretty sure it's over for the H, I'm just worried about possibly going into sub withdrawal but that seems unlikely from one sub.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Thanks man. I know the sub's half life is 36 hr, but one single 8mg dose of suboxone over 5 days ain't enough to bring withdrawal, or is it?
.

Dependency doesn't work that way. Your brain doesn't differentiate between suboxone, heroin, etc.. it is dependnet on opiates. Simply swapping one for another doesn't make a difference in your brain.. you're still dependent and will go through withdrawal.. it's just a matter of how bad it will be and how long it will last, and that is what is affected by specific drugs.

 

[bingey]

Get some weed and benzos. Youll be ok.

Weed is one of the best things to for me to have around when in withdrawal. No rebound anxiety like with benzos and it just allows your body to rest even with the biggest tolerance/kick. Side note I never smoke weed ordinarily.

 

[RTrain]

Is your friend who suggested that also your dealer?!?!? j/k, but this does seem to defy logic. I can say this, I have many times used Subs for a few days, between 2-7 days or so and then started doing H again and typically I'd dose the Sub in the morning, always keeping it under 2 mg and taking it before 6 am and then use H sometime in the evening, so at least 12 hours later. I metabolize quick, Subs only hold me for 4-6 hours when in acute w/d from H and I still need to dose 2x a day once stabilized, so the blockade doesn't seem that strong. But that first night back using H I will do 2-3 doses worth, and I always wake up the next morning feeling great, which I find odd because even if I had dosed Sub at say 8-9 pm, when I'd do my last H line, I would wake up the day feeling awful and needing the Subs, Now I never tried just ceasing use at this point, so I don't know how it would go, even though I wake up feeling good I do a line anyway cause I have it and I want to get high. So thats just my 2 cents, kinda goes along with what you're saying so maybe there is something to this, but sounds more like wishful thinking that will end in disapointment to me.

Weed is one of the best things to for me to have around when in withdrawal. No rebound anxiety like with benzos and it just allows your body to rest even with the biggest tolerance/kick. Side note I never smoke weed ordinarily.

Many, including myself want nothing to do with weed by itself when in heavy opiate withdrawal. But with a good amount of benzos in there, its the perfect solution to the boredom, depression and insomnia. When I have CT'd I usually suck it up for as long as possible then eat benzos, smoke weed and drink a few beers and finally get some sleep, after waking up the worst is usually over and I start to feel better from there on out. I think the kind of weed is very important, I hardly smoke anymore myself, but you want a chill strain.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

Dependency doesn't work that way. Your brain doesn't differentiate between suboxone, heroin, etc.. it is dependnet on opiates. Simply swapping one for another doesn't make a difference in your brain.. you're still dependent and will go through withdrawal.. it's just a matter of how bad it will be and how long it will last, and that is what is affected by specific drugs.

This.

Basically, you used suboxone (and then heroin) to ease the transition a bit but your view that suboxone just magically made the withdrawal symptoms disappear for what should've been their duration is completely false.

As stated above, buprenorphine has a very long half-life and the effects last a long time which is one of the reasons it's commonly used clinically and otherwise to taper. 24 hours after a dose of buprenorphine, it's still in your blood and attached to your opioid receptors. This Chart shows this visually (albeit with much larger doses)

Spoiler: large picture

If you took 2mg 3 days in a row, by day 3, it has essentially the same effect as taking 6mg. There is a limit to the agonism that buprenorphine produces so most people do not feel stronger effects over about 2mg (up to 4) so larger doses, or in your case, dosing subsequent days, just elongates the duration of the effect. Only 120 hours after you took your third dose of buprenorphine will the amount of opioid agonism drop below the effects you felt from that first 2mg and by taking the 1mg after that, you extended this even further.

Buprenorphine was basically just a placeholder for heroin on your receptors and pretty soon, you'll likely feel that. You probably did ease yourself off a little bit so it won't be as harsh as cold turkey, but I'd be surprised if you're truly in the clear and would hate for your expectations to be crushed when you start feeling sick again. I hope I'm wrong and this works for you, but there's a lot that suggests otherwise.

 

[aesthetics13]

So then taking the sub just delayed the H withdrawal? and I'm still going to go through the whole duration? If so, that kills the whole point why I used the 8 mg sub over 5 days....

And what I really wanna know, is If I took the 8mg sub in Day1: 2mg - Day2 : 2mg - Day3: 2mg - Day 4: 1mg - Day 5 1mg as I said and it's been
36 Hours right now since the last 1 mg dose, how much longer will the bupe be in my system?

 

[Toz]

No, you're in for an even longer duration since you took the subuxone. Basically your withdrawal will be longer but less intense. I bet you just traded one week of hell for three weeks of crap.

 

[missmeyet?]

/\...yes, exactly this.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

So then taking the sub just delayed the H withdrawal? and I'm still going to go through the whole duration? If so, that kills the whole point why I used the 8 mg sub over 5 days....

And what I really wanna know, is If I took the 8mg sub in Day1: 2mg - Day2 : 2mg - Day3: 2mg - Day 4: 1mg - Day 5 1mg as I said and it's been
36 Hours right now since the last 1 mg dose, how much longer will the bupe be in my system?

You'd probably have enough accumulated in your blood stream to produce a level of agonism on par with the effects from that first 2mg dose for up to 3 days but since a substantial aspect of withdrawal is psychological and the mental aspects exacerbate the physical, you'll probably start feeling shitty again sooner than that. As was mentioned, it won't be as bad as going cold turkey from where you were but you aren't in the clear.

If you can get some more buprenorphine, you can taper more gradually. Loperamide, clonidine, benzodiazepines, muscle relaxants, NSAIDs or some combination of the aforementioned can also be useful in mitigating your symptoms. If buprenorphine or other Rx drugs aren't available, I'd take 20mg of loperamide, wait 2 hours for it to kick in, see how you feel and use that to gauge how much more to take if necessary. Loperamide has a very long half-life as well so you shouldn't dose more frequently than every 24 hours (this also gives you the best shot at not getting insanely constipated) and take 1-2mg of loperamide less per day until you're off it. If you do go that route and start to get constipated, get some stool softeners and/or laxatives (I recommend the combination Senna-S which is sennosides and docusate sodium) or just wait to dose until you've had a bowel movement. Drink lots of water as well of course.

As should be noted, just getting the drugs out of your system isn't a cure. There was a reason you started using and got hooked and whatever the circumstances are, it's going to be even worse while you're experiencing withdrawal and Post-Acute Withdrawal. If you want this to stick and don't want to end up right back at the same place, you need to have a plan and make necessary changes. Every single day people on this site are in agony trying to withdraw with no plan beyond that and end up right back there again. Most repeat the cycle over and over until they finally do take the necessary steps to not just get clean but to stay clean. Many people need some kind of formal help (inpatient, out-patient, medical detox, 12-step, maintenance, etc).

If you could control all of this alone, you never would have gotten to the point you did. Everyone has excuses that they can't afford help, they don't 'believe in' 12 steps, etc. but regardless, if you aren't willing to fully commit and do what it takes to change your life, you'll go through the agony just go wind up there again... and probably again and again. Make this withdrawal mean something and use it to grow and move forward.

 

[Slum Survivor]

i agree that taking subs for a few days doesnt magically cure the dependence...

but think of this, for example: a heroin addict wants to stop. he has only say 3 days worth of suboxone total, and thats with tapering doses. IME that helps make the w/d less intense.

the mistake was taking the heroin again imo.

honestly tho OP, you sound like u will make it. your in the right place to ask Q's good luck

 

[aesthetics13]

Wow... I never thought a couple months of doing a couple packs of H a day, and using a single 8mg Sub to get off it, would come with this many strings attached, everyone told me just take one sub and it will take you through the H withdrawal, then you'll be good. I feel bad for the poor souls that have used H for years then are on subs for years trying to get off if such a light user like myself has to go through this duration to get clean. I have a 48hr a week, 12hr shift job, so I cant do no programs. If I just traded one week of hell for a longer duration of feeling shitty, so be it. Today I'm feeling just a minor headache, muscles soreness, slight anxiety and minor depression, I'll keep everyone updated on my progress..

 

[aesthetics13]

You guy's were absolutely correct my withdrawal's are back and getting worse as the time passes. I don't wanna take more bupe I just want the opiates to be done with and out my body. I have access to some benzo's (Valium / Xanax) but in the past I used 10 2mg Xanax for alcohol withdrawal and went into withdrawal from the benzo's after, but I did not taper 2mg all the way through. would I be able to use benzo's for about 5 day's to help me through this without going into withdrawal from the benzo's. Any suggestions would be appreciated I have to get up for work at 4am for a 12 hour shift and I'm going to need some help to make it through this.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

You guy's were absolutely correct my withdrawal's are back and getting worse as the time passes. I don't wanna take more bupe I just want the opiates to be done with and out my body. I have access to some benzo's (Valium / Xanax) but in the past I used 10 2mg Xanax for alcohol withdrawal and went into withdrawal from the benzo's after, but I did not taper 2mg all the way through. would I be able to use benzo's for about 5 day's to help me through this without going into withdrawal from the benzo's. Any suggestions would be appreciated I have to get up for work at 4am for a 12 hour shift and I'm going to need some help to make it through this.

What dose of bupe did you hop off of? Tapering down to as low of a dose as possible (the lower the better) will make your symptoms less severe.

Benzos help a lot during opiate withdrawal, just be careful not to use them as too much of a crutch and take them for longer than you need to, as a benzo addiction is not fun.

 

[aesthetics13]

I hoped off at 1mg after 5 day's of sub use. I just scored 5 2mg xanax, all I want to know is if I can use these for the next 5 days and hop off with no possibility of benzo withdrawal, if not I'm going to tough it out and suffer for the rest of the duration of withdrawal.

 

[cj]

I don't think 10mg of xanax is enough to cause withdrawal. Its possible you just felt rebound alcohol withdrawal last time.

 

[aesthetics13]

Nice, I think I might even use the 10mg of Xanax over about 3 days, just to get me through the work days and to sleep at night, then I got a few days off. Then hopefully the opiate withdrawal will be mild enough to withstand or gone. I mean it's been a week since I hopped of H, with 5 of those days on sub, I did use one more pack of H after the sub was gone about 12 hrs later, but that probably just extended the withdrawal by a little bit.. Bout to take 2mg in about 15 mins really hoping I get some relief...

 

[Toz]

I hoped off at 1mg after 5 day's of sub use. I just scored 5 2mg xanax, all I want to know is if I can use these for the next 5 days and hop off with no possibility of benzo withdrawal, if not I'm going to tough it out and suffer for the rest of the duration of withdrawal.

If you have had no prior gabaergic addiction it is fine. But since you have I'd leave it alone.

NMDA antagonists such as ketamine helps alot if you can get some, without being physically addictive. Even magnesium helps alot too I think.