Theoretical MDxx drug (6-BMC?) Cathinone version of 6-MABP

[thizzkid]

Hey there bluelight, so while I was in class today a very easy lecture was taking place and seeing as I knew the material already I got bored and started drawing chemical structures of drugs like I often do for entertainment and I came across an idea. I had drawn out a 6-apb molecule and a methylone molecule. (both of these are MDMA/MDA analogues that have gained much popularity and in some jurisdictions have already been made illegal as well as 6-mapb, all three of which are considered MDMA analogues in the United States [MDA in the case of 6-apb] and therefore are all under the jurisdiction of analogue laws) I had drawn 6-apb and methylone side-by-side and the idea occurred to me that if 6-apb were to have the N-methyl branch that MDMA, 6-mapb, and methylone each have that would make it a 6-mapb molecule and then if there were a double-bond oxygen on the "B" position of the newly 6-mapb molecule like there is in methylone then that would make it now a member of the substituted cathinone class of drugs while still maintaining a more MDMA like structure than some of the other legal MDxx alternatives out there now such as 5-eapb.

6-apb is 6-(2-aminopropyl)benzofuran OR (1-(benzofuran-6-ylpropan-2-amine)

6-mapb is (1-(benzofuran-6-yl)-N-methylpropan-2-amine)

and

Bk-MDMA/Methylone is 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylcathinone

So logically my guess as to what my proposed molecule (bear with me, all my organic nomenclature is learned via observation, I've never been properly taught) would be;

1-(benzofuran-6-yl)-N-methylcathinone or what I shortened to (6-BMC)

I'm working on uploading a molecular model but until I make it and get it up (I cant find anything on this drug online, not even a picture) the best description of what it will look like is identical to a 6-mapb molecule with a double-bond oxygen on the beta position as is the case with all cathinones.
Heres a link for a 6-mapb molecule for reference; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:6-MAPB_structure.png


Do any of you with better chemistry/legal knowledge than I do have anything to say about this compound in terms of the potential experience as well as whether or not you believe analogue laws will cover it? It seems, given it's structure, that it could be a valid empathogen-like stimulant with similar effects to MDMA or methylone but with the slower onset and duration that the apbs/mapbs posses, however that is all mere conjecture and speculation. Theoretically if this drug works then a 5-benzofuran substitute should also work lik 5-apb does to 6-apb so theres also that incorporated into this idea. I'd love to hear what anyone has to say about this. My idea was that it could hopefully be a valid drug with pleasurable effects that could by-pass the analogue laws, at least for some time like 6 and 5-apb did, so again this thread is open to any further speculation to this drugs potential and its legal labeling, and I'm very curious what you all have to say.

Thanks in advance!
-The Thizzkid

 

[Folley]

6-MAPB is already a pretty shitty chemical from all accounts.. I'm not sure how much worse it could get, but let's not find out

 

[ebola?]

6-MAPB is already a pretty shitty chemical from all accounts..

Really? I haven't seen any accounts of it, and this is pretty surprising, considering how well liked 5mapb is. In fact, I wasn't able to find any reports of the compound searching PD.
...
Given reports of 6-apb, and trends in SAR, I would expect this compound to be similar to methylone but perhaps longer lasting and more selective for 5ht. It actually sounds like it could be all right.

ebola

 

[Folley]

I haven't tried either, so really my opinion means nothing... but everything I've heard says they are just worse versions of the APBs which many people refer as worse versions of MDA. Obviously that's not entirely true and a lot of people do like the original APBs quite a bit, but exploring a random analogue for the sole reason that it is legal is something I simply can't get behind.


I mean, just look at EAPB. These RC chemists are all just trying to find the next "big thing" so they can cash out when in reality they're making a bunch of shitty analogues that are almost always inferior to the original chemical it's based on. IMO we should be focusing on what is the safest, yet best quality highs... not just what is "legal". MDxx analogues especially have a VERY high potential for being neurotoxic and damaging, and while I do want science to continue exploring them I do really wish they wouldn't just abandon previous winners just because they're outlawed Seems like every year something good comes along and becomes extremely popular until it's outlawed and forgotten, pushed aside for some other tweaky variant





Who knows though, this chemical could very well be a winner. I certainly won't be trying it until it's been thoroughly researched, however.

 

[ebola?]

but everything I've heard says they are just worse versions of the APBs

What is "they"? 6-mapb? Where did you hear these things?

APBs which many people refer as worse versions of MDA.

Well, they're simply different, but probably not as good if you're seeking something as dopaminergic as MDA. However, that's not always desirable. There are some positive things about selectivity for 5ht, principally reduced after-effects.

I mean, just look at EAPB.

The SAR logic here is different though. n-ethylation yields too serotonergic of a compound and sacrifices too much potency with the APBs. Hell, it's of limited utility with MDEA and yielded shitty results with ethylone.

they're making a bunch of shitty analogues that are almost always inferior to the original chemical it's based on.

But wholly inferior in every way? Having more analogues provides variety in tools. . .

MDxx analogues especially have a VERY high potential for being neurotoxic and damaging

Most data suggest most analogues are less neurotoxic than MDMA.

I do really wish they wouldn't just abandon previous winners just because they're outlawed

Are we abandoning them? This isn't an either-or thing.

until it's been thoroughly researched

That probably won't REALLY occur; the APBs have only been moderately researched as it is.

ebola

 

[thizzkid]

Thanks for backing me on this Ebola

Folley; I didnt make this SOLEY to bypass the legality. It was just part of it and an interesting factor once I realized this chemical could be made. Its not like I have the ability or know-how to synthesizes this anyway, I was only curious. I do agree that classic winners like MDMA/MDA cant be beat in their game, but these oh-so-similar analogues (like methylone for example) can bring their own flavor to the experience and in some cases a whole new experience. I mean Shulgin never would've made all those wonderful PEA's like 2CB/I/E etc. if he hadn't had a little curiosity....mescaline was his inspiration for the 2C's and while theyre significantly different than mescaline itself, the 2c's are all powerful, unique drugs. So by that logic why can't something similar be found based off of MDMA and its similar analogues? THAT'S why Im interested in this, not legal loopholes. I do appreciate your openess to it's possibility of being a valid chemical however and yes i agree; I'm certainly not going to be the first to try it haha. I only thought the idea was interesting and bluelight is always great at assessing things like this.

 

[electrodevo]

I haven't tried either, so really my opinion means nothing... but everything I've heard says they are just worse versions of the APBs which many people refer as worse versions of MDA.

If someone sold something as 6-MAPB, I would not trust it to be really 6-MAPB. TBH I didn't think it was on the market before the UK benzofury ban came into effect (which means it will now probably never get made unless another marketplace where it is not banned shows interest).

The x-APBs at least have been verified to be what they are and the verified item was genuinely worthwhile. I do not trust the "legal high" "chemists" to actually make what they are claiming in many cases (the APBs took a long time to get right for whatever reason).

I thought the consensus on 6-MAPB suggested it would hit many of the right MDMA notes (as 6-APB hit many of the right MDA notes), at least that's what I remember one of the more advanced chemistry type of posters postulating. I guess it's possible that he was wrong and 6-MAPB wasn't that good, but I'd want a GCMS/NMR verified sample to know for sure.

Not sure what the SAR would be on a benzofuran ring substituted methylone, instinct says it would be pretty close but to what extent is something I certainly wouldn't know.

 

[ebola?]

(which means it will now probably never get made unless another marketplace where it is not banned shows interest).

The United States has over 300 million people.

The x-APBs at least have been verified to be what they are

Their syntheses tend to be a bit challenging, so it's likely that many vendors are trying to unload surplus cathinone inventories as x-apb compounds.

ebola

 

[Folley]

Thanks for backing me on this Ebola

Folley; I didnt make this SOLEY to bypass the legality. It was just part of it and an interesting factor once I realized this chemical could be made. Its not like I have the ability or know-how to synthesizes this anyway, I was only curious. I do agree that classic winners like MDMA/MDA cant be beat in their game, but these oh-so-similar analogues (like methylone for example) can bring their own flavor to the experience and in some cases a whole new experience. I mean Shulgin never would've made all those wonderful PEA's like 2CB/I/E etc. if he hadn't had a little curiosity....mescaline was his inspiration for the 2C's and while theyre significantly different than mescaline itself, the 2c's are all powerful, unique drugs. So by that logic why can't something similar be found based off of MDMA and its similar analogues? THAT'S why Im interested in this, not legal loopholes. I do appreciate your openess to it's possibility of being a valid chemical however and yes i agree; I'm certainly not going to be the first to try it haha. I only thought the idea was interesting and bluelight is always great at assessing things like this.

My apologies, it was more of a statement of what is wrong with the RC market in general. I didn't mean to imply that you were a chemist yourself or that this would be a chemical not worth exploring. It's just been my experience that chemicals made to be the "legal" version of something else are usually quite inferior to what they try and replicate. I'd say if you expect it to replace APB/MDMA/methylone you'd probably be disappointed. If you expect it to be it's own unique flavor though who knows what potential it may have



@ Ebola: to be fair, in the UK the APBs were almost completely pushed aside for other analogues. That's why I make mention of EAPB, it was practically unheard of until a short while after the APB ban was announced. There have been enough users reports for 5/6-APB to assume a safety profile at least similar to MDMA, although just because they don't share some of the same damaging metabolites doesn't mean they won't have some of their own we just haven't detected yet.

For all we know one of these new chemicals could be parkinson's in a pill, I think we've gotten pretty lucky so far that we haven't seen more cases similar to what happened with MPPP

 

[ebola?]

There have been enough users reports for 5/6-APB to assume a safety profile at least similar to MDMA

Their profile of monoamine release (increased selectivity for 5ht) suggests reduced neurotoxicity. User reports won't tell use anything about this--we need additional research.

ebola

 

[Folley]

That's kind of what I'm saying though. The more drugs there are to study, the less focused the research becomes. However I digress, the point I'm making isn't entirely suited for this thread.

 

[electrodevo]

The United States has over 300 million people.

Between a customer base happy to accept cheap methylone from China, a legal system that doesn't care about the difference between "legal highs" and "illegal highs", and a chemical marketplace so tight that even garden variety amateur chemistry is an "underground" hobby, unlikely. 6-MAPB would be more expensive than MDMA, is an untested compound, and is a riskier synth. The Internet crowd that happily accepted 5/6-APB is quite limited.

Their profile of monoamine release (increased selectivity for 5ht) suggests reduced neurotoxicity.

Theoretically much increased cardiotoxicity, however. Of course, that's lab data.

It would be an interesting world if recreational chemicals were developed in a similar manner to pharmaceuticals (with a goal of the best balance of effects / safety), with the high QC of manufacturing that pharmaceuticals have. Those who experiment with the current range of analogues don't necessarily think the "classics" are best in all cases.

 

[ebola?]

Between a customer base happy to accept cheap methylone from China

Since methylone has been scheduled, it is no longer available on the grey market RC arena, which has been flourishing to a degree that people aren't recognizing (which can be a good thing). I'm happy enough that you can't get APB series compounds as "Benzo Fury" at head shops here. That's probably why they're not scheduled yet.

Theoretically much increased cardiotoxicity, however. Of course, that's lab data.

That follows tenuously: MDA, and to a slightly lesser extent MDMA, are dandy 5ht2b ligands. The thing is, people simply don't take entactogens multiple times per week over multi-year periods, the level where you'd expect these effects to lead to cardiotoxicity. In fact, some study suggests that 5ht2b agonism might be outright necessary for entactogenesis. Most recreational psyhcedelics also hit 5ht2b.

ebola

 

[Help?!?!]

My apologies, it was more of a statement of what is wrong with the RC market in general. I didn't mean to imply that you were a chemist yourself or that this would be a chemical not worth exploring. It's just been my experience that chemicals made to be the "legal" version of something else are usually quite inferior to what they try and replicate. I'd say if you expect it to replace APB/MDMA/methylone you'd probably be disappointed. If you expect it to be it's own unique flavor though who knows what potential it may have

Chh such a stupid mentality to follow. "Oh yeah....dem illegals are duh best....let's make legal versions!", that's like saying "Oh XXX restaurant serves the best food, lets copy them!", food is food and chemicals are chemicals, they all carry their own unique flavors(hell even down to condiments/flavorings/impurities/metabolites...). Attempting to think of these things as "better versions" of each other is as intelligent as thinking of sand as a better form of rocks in a way......

 

[Diloadid]

I have never tried 6-MAPB, but I did enjoy 6-APB.

You crazy kids playing organic chemistry in your Maths class.

 

[Diloadid]

Chh such a stupid mentality to follow. "Oh yeah....dem illegals are duh best....let's make legal versions!", that's like saying "Oh XXX restaurant serves the best food, lets copy them!", food is food and chemicals are chemicals, they all carry their own unique flavors(hell even down to condiments/flavorings/impurities/metabolites...). Attempting to think of these things as "better versions" of each other is as intelligent as thinking of sand as a better form of rocks in a way......

I can't tell if you are trying to have at Folley. He has a solid point, the drugs that are illegal usually are a bit more fun to use. 6-APB was cool, but by no means does it hold a candle to MDMA or MDA.

RCs have their place. I honestly prefer MDPV to methamphetamine. That is mostly subjective tho.

Really chemist should probably stop trying to cash in on a quick dime by making some of the more garbage RC's. They should instead try to be innovative in the world medicine and less in the world of psychoactive compounds.

 

[Folley]

Chh such a stupid mentality to follow. "Oh yeah....dem illegals are duh best....let's make legal versions!", that's like saying "Oh XXX restaurant serves the best food, lets copy them!", food is food and chemicals are chemicals, they all carry their own unique flavors(hell even down to condiments/flavorings/impurities/metabolites...). Attempting to think of these things as "better versions" of each other is as intelligent as thinking of sand as a better form of rocks in a way......

Right. Because everyone should try every drug available to them, regardless of toxicity or the fact that compounds such as these have been completely untested in EVERY sense of the word.




I have nothing against new drugs. However, a new untested drug entering the market in large quantities has an EXTREME potential for danger. If you think the RC chemists are putting these drugs through their paces before selling it to you, you're only fooling yourself. They let YOU be the guinea pig with these drugs, and that's been proved time and time again with things like Bromo-Dragonfly.

Also, sand looks way cooler than rocks under a microscope

 

[thizzkid]

Alright guys however hillarious your bickering is to the third party viewers i have to pipe in and say this thread is getting a little off-topic and is heading toward the moralities of all of this which I too can go on for hours about, but that wasn't the question. Can we all kindly revert back to the focus of the OP being thoughts as to how this drug may theoretically perfom?
Thanks!

 

[ebola?]

Chh such a stupid mentality to follow. "Oh yeah....dem illegals are duh best....let's make legal versions!"

Right. Because everyone should try every drug available to them, regardless of toxicity or the fact that compounds such as these have been completely untested in EVERY sense of the word.

You're making straw men of each others arguments; you should each go back and read what the other person actually said.

I have nothing against new drugs. However, a new untested drug entering the market in large quantities has an EXTREME potential for danger.

There are many RCs with established research behind them. I tend to only use ones that have been tested in SOME respect.

ebola

 

[swedger77]

Hey OP you should give this a watch.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/legally-high-true-stories

You might be able to watch it although it might be for UK streams only so maybe available on torrent sites etc.

Basically the dude below is the guy that invented mephedrone and 6-apb amongst other things

He is the man responsible for producing dozens of legal highs. He was saying its pretty much trial and error when it comes to finding new substances that are actually good and that more often than not chemical that look good on paper do not actually result in a good drugs experience. He tests all his own creations on himself first.

Should give it a watch as im sure you'll find some of it interesting