Opioids Dependency Question?

[951]

Hey Guys, this is my first post so please forgive any lack in protocol...

I have a (I think) uncommon addiction. For the last 10 years I have used opiates in one form or another. I used to do oxy80's in high school then got cleanish for a year or so. Being a life long racer I have always had major injuries. My last big one about 5 years ago landed me a 3 year vicodin 10mg script of 8 pills a day. I was already using when I got that script but not daily. Probably 100 mg a week. When the script ended year and a half ago. I worked up to 200/300mg a day Percocet street bought, then heroin about a gram a day. I OD'ed a year back on 1.5 IV dope. Since the OD I have used way less.. The Doc that treated me in the ER gave me back my vicodin script after hearing my story so I had them for 3 months and was off everything else but could not find a doctor willing to keep that going. At the end of the script I went to jail for 4 days and was mildly uncomfortable but not deadly sick (longest break to date.).

My use since then has been irregular, I use anything from 2mg sobos to 2grams dope. Sometimes I stay high for a week or two at a time using a gram and a half a day, other times I'll only use half a sobo and a couple perk 10s in a week regularly skipping days. So to the point..

I have not gone more than 48 hrs sober in years. But I regularly go 24/36hrs with nothing. I did a gram of dope Monday. Tuesday night I took 2mg sobo ( I was feeling the WD's a bit) didn't take anything again till right now (Thursday afternoon) when I just took 2mg sobo again.

So my question.. IF I where to stop today. What would I expect?? I read that wd's take 12/24hrs to kick in for most. that's not the case for me. I don't use any one drug daily but I'm always using dope perks or sobos. What am I most likely dependent on? Is how I feel at 48 hrs as bad as it will get? how long will it last? Is my brain super fucked? Whats my best option? go out on the subs? or buy some dope and end it on the dope? try to lower down with some tramadol or something? Just stop?

Sorry to ramble this is my first honest public description of my addiction.

 

[twotoomany]

Best bet, if you can STAY clean, is a quick sub taper. 2mg. Skip a day. 1mg, skip a day. .5 mg skip a day. .25 mg. you're done. From there withdrawal will be light, with the worst day being 5 days out, at least for me.

If you don't wanna do the sub taper, you can just not take anything else starting now. For me, the worst was always 72 hours after my last dose. The dreaded day three.

Sure some people will jump in and give you even better advice. My taper plan was based on your irregular dosing schedule and your current suboxone (I assume sobos=suboxone) dose age. Good luck. You can do this.

As for what you're dependent on, the easy answer is opiates, of course. Any opiate, in the right dose, should clear your withdrawals.

 

[missmeyet?]

*edit* two posted his reply while I was still typing...but I also agree with the advice he gave above!



To the question what are you addicted to the answer is opiates/opioids in general. They all hit pretty much the same receptors so as long as those receptors are filled with any opiate you won't go into withdrawals.
As to 48 hours being the worse point in WDs I would say definitely no, but it is different for everyone so I guess it is possible. In jail you went 4 days without and said it wasn't that bad..how is your use (amount) now compared to then?
I assume when you say sobos you mean buprenorphine? They have a longer half life than the others so it takes a little longer for WDs to hit.
Do you have a script for the buprenorphine? If you can get by on 2 mgs I would do that and work my way down.
I think (and from what I hear told) it is a bad idea to try to taper down on heroin so I would scratch that idea.
As far as what to expect, again it is different with everyone as far as how severe and how long it lasts. Personally if it were me, I would taper down the subs a bit more then jump off. Get a hold of some comfort meds..loperamide (careful with it...it works wonders as it is also an opiate just doesn't cross the BBB but some people get hooked on them if they don't use them as little as necessary), some clonidine which is a not a narcotic will knock out a lot of the symptoms such as restless legs and most docs are more than willing to give a script for it, drink lots of fluids, excercise when possible and try to eat. These will minimize the worse of the symptoms.

Good luck..hope you decide to do it and that it goes well...do a search, you will finds tons and tons of advice and experience her at BL on withdrawals and quitting.

 

[951]

Best bet, if you can STAY clean, is a quick sub taper. 2mg. Skip a day. 1mg, skip a day. .5 mg skip a day. .25 mg. you're done. From there withdrawal will be light, with the worst day being 5 days out, at least for me.

If you don't wanna do the sub taper, you can just not take anything else starting now. For me, the worst was always 72 hours after my last dose. The dreaded day three.

Sure some people will jump in and give you even better advice. My taper plan was based on your irregular dosing schedule and your current suboxone (I assume sobos=suboxone) dose age. Good luck. You can do this.

As for what you're dependent on, the easy answer is opiates, of course. Any opiate, in the right dose, should clear your withdrawals.

Thanks 22M, I have 2mg sobo (yup suboxone) left so I could taper more like you suggest. I know small pills (5mg perks and such) can eliviate the wds from sobos. Can this be done in a way to not hold the addiction to the pills while getting out of the bupe wds if the tolerance is low? Believe it or not the lest effect I ever felt at the 48hr mark was a time that I took a 4mg sobo, then 8hrs later did a gram of dope, then nothing at two days it was the mental addiction the brought me back. A bud of mine (not educated just anther user) told me that throwing the dope on top of the bupe helped them counter eachothers WDs on the way down... Now Im an IT guy not a chemist but that sounds like BS to me. But I did notice I felt fine at the two day mark... Day two off dope and im crawling in my skin. Will Booze, benzos, etc help?? I start a new job in two weeks and want to o in clean.

My last CT clean time ended in my suicide. The brought me back but I was in a coma for a week... So i'm concerned about the depression I fell in WDs and would like to limit that more than anything.

 

[951]

In jail you went 4 days without and said it wasn't that bad..how is your use (amount) now compared to then?

In jail I had been on 80mg a day vicodin for 3 months and nothing else. Now i'm on, if I had to average (it varies huge depending on my budget and situation) I'll do 3 grams dope and 8 to 16 mg sobo + some random pills would be an average week for me.

*Do you have a script for the buprenorphine?

Nope.

* Get a hold of some comfort meds..loperamide (careful with it...it works wonders as it is also an opiate just doesn't cross the BBB but some people get hooked on them if they don't use them as little as necessary), some clonidine

I can get clonodine, any is anything else you mentioned or know of OTC? My ability to buy is basicly just the stuff im on...

Thanks a lot for the well thought out replys guys!!

 

[twotoomany]

The WD from a small habit and short sub taper should be unremarkable. It should be really light. Suboxone has a super long half life, which is why you aren't feeling withdrawal on your off days. I believe the half life is between 48-72 hrs, but don't quote me on that.

As for the post quitting depression, that's likely stil going to happen. That's why many people choose maintenance for a while, getting sub or methadone daily. You won't get high, eventually, its much more affordable, and you don't have to deal with PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome) right away, but you may still run into it when you do quit.

The problem with maintenance drugs is the same thing that makes em useful: that super long half life. Because if this, WD if often drawn out and painful. Sub withdrawal isn't as bad as H WD, but it can last a month instead of a week. That's why I personally prefer a quick sub taper. The WD is short as long as you've only been on it briefly.

Low doses of booze or benzos may help you. Just be careful with the benzos. They can fuck you worse than opiates.

 

[missmeyet?]

Thanks 22M, I have 2mg sobo (yup suboxone) left so I could taper more like you suggest. I know small pills (5mg perks and such) can eliviate the wds from sobos. Can this be done in a way to not hold the addiction to the pills while getting out of the bupe wds if the tolerance is low? Believe it or not the lest effect I ever felt at the 48hr mark was a time that I took a 4mg sobo, then 8hrs later did a gram of dope, then nothing at two days it was the mental addiction the brought me back. A bud of mine (not educated just anther user) told me that throwing the dope on top of the bupe helped them counter eachothers WDs on the way down... Now Im an IT guy not a chemist but that sounds like BS to me. But I did notice I felt fine at the two day mark... Day two off dope and im crawling in my skin. Will Booze, benzos, etc help?? I start a new job in two weeks and want to o in clean.

My last CT clean time ended in my suicide. The brought me back but I was in a coma for a week... So i'm concerned about the depression I fell in WDs and would like to limit that more than anything.

Sweetie, they are all opiates/opioids, so you are not "fixing" your withdrawals of one by taking the other you are just never completely going to experience withdrawals because you are not stopping the opiates.

 

[951]

How long does it take to get a dependency on sobos? Can you really be phisicly addicted after a few doses?

IF I had no past with them, and I was coming down of dope, and took a 8 mg sub, split it up and went like 4 mg, 2mg, 1mg 1mg then off I would still have long withdrawals from the subs?

 

[951]

Sweetie, they are all opiates/opioids, so you are not "fixing" your withdrawals of one by taking the other you are just never completely going to experience withdrawals because you are not stopping the opiates.

OK... So when I take the subs im not eliminating the opiate WDs.. Im just still using, so eventually its an easy way to taper?

 

[951]

Now i'm on, if I had to average (it varies huge depending on my budget and situation) I'll do 3 grams dope and 8 to 16 mg sobo + some random pills would be an average week for me.

And would you consider this a "small" habit? or am I more to the medium large end of the scale?

 

[twotoomany]

No. You're right. I misread. Not a small habit.

Yes. It an easier way to taper

If you had no sub history and dud a quick taper, you wouldn't have long sub WD. At least I didn't when I did that.

 

[downfallin]

sub withdrawls peak at around day 6 and I don`t even really feel em until day 3 they have a log half-life and it`s kind of delayed but it`s alot easier than kicking heroin or oxy. I used to do a gram to 2 grams a day and subs got me off it.