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Bupe Heroin to get off subutex and pain pills to get off heroin?

R

Rainie

Greenlighter
Joined
Aug 14, 2013
Messages
12
So I have been on subutex for 5 1.2 years. I got myself down to 0.55, before that I managed to get myself to 0.4. I decided to use heroin for 3 weeks, today is last day of using heroin. Tomorrow I will tale extended release morphine, codeine and dihydro- codeine. I may stay on these pills for about a month or 6 weeks, then wean myself off them. I am just asking can this work? I do not want any judgments or lectures, I have thought this through very hard and long. I just want to know if this will prolong recovery? surely heroin managed to cut down the bup withdrawals in half? I figure it is better to it this way then go down to 0.25 feeling shyte.

Another question I wanted peoples opinion was if I have been off subs for 2-3 weeks at 0.5mg then would it be going a step back if I was take 0.25? not that I will do this but am just curious to what others think about this.

Again please no judgments or lectures. I just want to know if what I plan is a plausible method. Surely by taking heroin and pain pills it has managed to purge out some subs?

do pain kills like extended release morphine hold heroin withdrawals at bay?
 
I am just asking can this work? Yes. It's possible. but you need extreme self control. (If you're addicted to opioids, you don't have it. That is the cold reality.)

I just want to know if this will prolong recovery? surely heroin managed to cut down the bup withdrawals in half?

Yes, it will prolong recovery, because heroin is a full agonist and suboxone is only a partial agonist of opioid receptors. your withdrawals will be much more severe on heroin than on bupe.

Another question I wanted peoples opinion was if I have been off subs for 2-3 weeks at 0.5mg then would it be going a step back if I was take 0.25?

No.

I figure it is better to it this way then go down to 0.25 feeling shyte. It's not.

do pain kills like extended release morphine hold heroin withdrawals at bay? Yes.

this is a great way to end up reversing all your hard work.
 
I agree. It certainly CAN work, but its gonna be tough to take enough pills to only feel "shitty" but not enough to get high.
 
Anything is possible... I could run into 5 supermodels downtown who take me back to their place, all have sex with me, then give me free drugs...

But it's not likely.

Same goes for this. Using a short acting opiate to get off a long acting one is obviously not recommended because it's incredibly hard to do from a chemical stand point.. that's why drugs like methadone and bupe are used to help you get off drugs like heroin, not the other way around.

And, to make things even harder on you, adding in the fact of using your DOC or a drug as euphoric as heroin, and the idea you're going to be able to control your usage enough to detox with it is pretty nuts. I mean, theoretically, one could use heroin to come off of heroin.. just taper down to nothing. You never hear of anybody actually successfully doing that though because it's borderline impossible.

If you want to get off subutex, taper down. That's the only way to do it with any real chance of working. This whole switching to H, to pills, to whatever, is just going to leave you 10x worse off than you were before just on the subutex.
 
Lol everyone giving serious, well thought out answer to this.


Why don't you just come off suboxone? I know you can taper quick off that shit because I know people who went through detox and were on heroin. You start out on like 16+mg of suboxone and are done in 5-6 days. And you wonder how you come off half a milligram? Just don't take it anymore. This shits ridiculous.

It would take me like 3 times that dose to even get high and I have no tolerance to opiates. I couldn't see it killing you to just quit, if that's what you want to do.
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
Well, we can't all be you benny. I mean't for us normal folk. :p
Click to expand...

According to M-Theory / Superstring Theory as well as the Many World Interpretation of quantum mechanics, not only is it entirely possible that this can happen to you, but in one of the many universes this HAS happened to you. Now you just need to find a way to hop from one universe to the other.
 
^
What a nice way of explaining quantum mechanics!
Now, if there were practical homework to this effect, Advanced physics classes would be full to bursting.lol
Oh yeah, OP, IMO terrible idea.
 
That many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics also says if you hold a gun to your head and pull the trigger, to you, it will infinitely jam. I'm still not convinced this is the case enough to try it and find out. Lol
 
i agree that taking ANYthing will be a possible screw up... getting thru the sub w/d w/o taking anything would be ideal. that is if u really are trying to quit.

however i know how bupe w/d feels and i had a hard time as well. when i couldnt take it anymore, having jumped from about .5mg or less a day, and just had to give in... i used hydrocodone to help battle the w/d's. im talking smaller amounts too. in my case i was able to get relief from even just one 10mg hydro, as each day passed the hydro had more effect too as the bupe wore off slowly, so there was no need to up the dose. in fact the smartest thing, if doing this, would be to taper the hydro down as well. only let yourself take the hydro's for a couple weeks tho or u will be back in the hole. you have to at least do SOME suffering or no gain will be made. im just trying to show an option that could help deal with the drawn out w/d's of sub. either way its gonna be hard still.
 
alt 14 said:
Lol everyone giving serious, well thought out answer to this.


Why don't you just come off suboxone? I know you can taper quick off that shit because I know people who went through detox and were on heroin. You start out on like 16+mg of suboxone and are done in 5-6 days. And you wonder how you come off half a milligram? Just don't take it anymore. This shits ridiculous.

It would take me like 3 times that dose to even get high and I have no tolerance to opiates. I couldn't see it killing you to just quit, if that's what you want to do.
Click to expand...

Your statement shows that you have literally NO CLUE what you're talking about. The OP has been on Subs for a WHILE, long enough that his body is full blown dependent. Every person I've ever talked to who got off subs said that it took 6-8 weeks until they felt normal again, even when tapering ALL THE WAY DOWN TO 1mg or LESS before going cold turkey to try and make the WD's last less time. Bupe withdrawals are NO JOKE, they just feel like they're NEVER going to go away. I honestly had an easier time quitting Heroin, than my attempts at Bupe. Even when only taking 1mg - it still takes a good 3-4 days for me to even feel fully sick. The medication has such a long half life that it makes it hell to come off. It may not hurt as bad as dope, but it last 10 fucking times longer.
If you aren't and have never been an Opiate Addict, don't talk to people like some macho tough guy acting like they're a pussy because they're asking about jumping off from .25mgs of Bupe. You have NO IDEA what that feels like, the anxiety that builds in your whole body, the state of panic - it's fucking terrible. I hope you never have to experience that feeling, but if you ever do, you will understand what I'm saying - and your harsh words of "Just stop taking it, Shit's ridiculous" will make you feel like a complete dick. This shit is no joke. Bupe is just as bad, if not WORSE than coming off Heroin. Be prepared to have a ton of weed and extra benzo's on hand if you want a chance at being completely clean.
 
^^EDIT: i agree with the above poster... its no joke to w/d from long term sub use. some people just dont understand that until it happens to them.^^


ya know i hate to post again but i just re-read the OP

you've already been using H again for 3 weeks?? your not going to get much from trying to take a tiny .25mg of sub. in fact it probably would make things worse imo. you were trying to get rid of the sub out of your system, why add more?! dont take any more sub if you want to quit subs.

in fact i would just go c/t for at least 24-48 hours and see how bad u really get at this point. if its honestly too much to handle, and u give in to the pills or whatever u are taking, only let yourself take enough to keep the w/d's at bay. dont take them expecting to get high or have a miracle. you are gonna have some sort of W/D any way you decide to handle this.

if you just quit now, imagine this... you will already be clean and starting to get back to normal by the time you would have stopped those pills and drawn the whole thing out farther.

i hope im making sense here... i know what i mean to say, it just doesnt always come out right :)
 
You're right, I don't know how awful it is. But if people doing a gram of heroin(I mean idk how pure the dope is, but that's a lot regardless) a day can get through detox in a week and come out fine with 14 days of rehab classes, I can't imagine .5 milligrams of suboxone being that hard to kick.. What, handing out free hugs and kind words today?

He's rationalizing him getting back on heroin to be ok because he has a tiny suboxone addiction he just can't kick. It's not ok. Not in my opinion, not for a drug addict. But what do I know. I'm in the outgroup, like you said.
 
He's not trying to rationalize getting back on Heroin. You just genuinely do not understand the position that the OP is in at all. The reason why Heroin Addicts are able to get better that quick without use is because it's HEROIN not Subutex or Suboxone. Heroin is natural, it comes from the Poppy Plant. Because of this, even when it's lower quality and cut up like the street product is, it's still WAY MORE natural than ANY pharmaceutical Opiate on the market. They are all partially synthetic or fully synthetic depending on which. Buperenorphine is a partially synthetic Opiate. Heroin is a far more natural Opiate. It's like trying to say that Synthetic Cannabinoids are just as safe and easy to quit as smoking Weed. It's not. It's 2 completely different things.
Subutex withdrawals last up to 8 weeks after your last dose. Heroin withdrawals - after 7 days you're thru the worst of it, and after 14 days, you start to feel slightly like a human again. I personally quit a 1g+ per day IV Heroin habit 3 different times. The 1st 2 I quit Cold Turkey only using Benzo's, Weed, and DXM to get thru the withdrawals. My last long stint with dope, I decided to go the Subutex route. Now I'm stuck on this shit and can't fucking quit no matter what I do. BUPE can be a live saver, but it's also a really shitty, lots of side effects, not many benefits Opiate that addicts get NO HIGH OR GOOD FEELINGS FROM AT ALL. I would much rather be in Heroin Maintenance like in Europe and Canada, but that isn't an option in our dumb ass Christian Society.
I could go into more depth to try and help you understand where the OP is coming from - but I think it's better if I just drop it here. you don't understand what it's like to be in our shoes and I hope you never do. All this person wants is control of there life back, nothing more. Unfortunately, getting off Bupe is such a bitch that the 7-14 days of really shitty Heroin WD's seem better most of the time than the 6-8 weeks of pretty shitty feeling you get when you quit Subs. It's a fucked up cycle that I've seen too many repeat. We SERIOUSLY need NEW TREATMENT OPTIONS IN AMERICA FOR JUNKIES. Methadone AND Bupe are outdated in 2013 and don't work for everyone. Sure, I'm able to work, hold a job, and feel OK daily thanks to Subs, but it has also RUINED just as many relationships and aspects of my life as Dope did, and I at least enjoyed doing the dope. I never WANT to take my Bupe, I just don't have a choice because all I can think about is killing myself if I don't.
It's a drug you don't understand ALT 14. Please just don't give people advice or make ignorant comments when you have never even partaken or participated int eh substance or scene the OP is speaking about. It's like a White guy trying to tell a Black guy about Racism - just fucking backwards and dumb. No offense. I just hate people who act like I'm a pussy because I can't quit 1mg of Subutex. That's how my ignorant Christian dad is who knows jack shit about drugs. He thinks it should be SOOOOO easy for me to quit because I started out on 24mgs, 1mg should be EASY. NOPE. going below 2mgs is WAY HARDER than going from fucking 24mgs down to 4mgs. Below 2mgs, you basically feel sick all of the time, but not quite all the way. It's an awful, process that not many people make it thru easily, especially without relapsing on their DOC. It may be the hardest thing any Human will ever have to go thru in their lifetime. Think about that...............
 
I think its important to remember that everyones theshold for discomfort is different and whats managable for one person can be unbearable for another.
I know people who have tapered down from a 200mg diazepam daily habit, to 1mg a day but cant make the final leap because of the fear of going without a drug thats been a part of their life for a long time. The psychological aspect shouldnt be underestimated and i think thats what the above poster was alluding to when he said you have no idea.
Also, the "kick up the arse" way of looking at addiction is very old fashioned. Its like telling someone eith anxiety to "pull themselves together" its an insensitive and dated view.
Addiction should be looked at like a medical condition because its an illness and like any illness needs to be treated with the right amount of support and (if needed) medications.
Then, if recovery is to be acheived and maintained there has to be compassion and futher advice and support extended to the patient, including free hugs and kind words. It is possible to disagree with someone without be-littling their difficulties.

Edit: to above poster, Heroin is infact a semi synthetic drug and not a natural opiate. Buprenorphine is also semi synthetic as its produced from thebaine (a natural opiate). So in that regard buprenorphine is as "natural" as heroin.
I actually agree completely with most of your posts, i just wanted to clarify that point.
 
Last edited:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS.
You just explained very elegantly exactly the point I was trying to get across. Being a fellow addict, I felt the one poster was being extremely insensitive and out of date just like you said with his views on the subject. This is an issue that will never be black and white - it's will always be person dependent. That's why compassion is ALWAYS needed when dealing with Opiate Addicts. We aren't happy that we're like this or stuck in this shitty situation either. It's super fucking depressing - but it's even harder to try and quit altogether after years of taking these substances. It becomes a part of who you are, and the fear of not having that safety net around to protect you from the atrocities of our current Society in Decay is enough to keep most addicts stuck in old cycles - even if they don't want to be.
All I ask is to try and transplant your mind into the person's life you're trying to offer advice. If you are incapable of doing that, you have no place trying to offer advice or judgement to Opiate addicts. Just be thankful that it's something you'll never understand and try to be loving and understanding to your fellow Human Being. The world would be a better place if we practiced this in all aspects of our lives. I wasn't trying to be a dick, just trying to help you understand the real situation here.
 
Ok well I have done heroin, including iv, a fair number of times. Not like 100 but probably like 20. You sound like a party kid talking about the "scene" like that fucking matters. I guess I'll just see my way out of the thread if the scene is about getting dependent and talking about how awful it is to quit.

I've done hard things before. Like going 2 days on sips of water every few hours to cut weight, running in trash bags til the point of exhaustion and then having pretty much the most vigorous 6minutes of physical activity you can ever do in your life coming up after it. Eating only plain lettuce an carrots all day and a 4oz piece of meat at night for a fucking 3month stretch. Feeling lousy and mentally and physically drained, 8lbs over weight and literally not even having that much fat on your body and having to deal with your mom saying well why don't you just ride the exercise bike some more if you're worried about making weight. And trying to restrain from snapping at her because you're hardly a teenager and you'll get in trouble. Wrestling is the hardest thing someone will do in their life.

I quit smoking a month ago if that helps you guys relate a little more.
 
I dont think the problem is that we cant relate to you, its that you dont relate to the OPs issues.
Im sure you have dealt with hardships in your life and i have compassion for you havings to push yourself in that manner in order to fit anothers standards.
However, this thread is about the OPs battle with opiate addiction and withdrawal, not a platform to play one-upmanship over whos dealt with the worse situations in life.
Im sure that ive dealt with situations that would make you break down and weep, just as youve no doubt got through situations that would would break me.
Please dont think im personally attakcing you Alt 14 because im not. Im trying to re-educate you in your out-dated view of addiction and withdrawal so that you can offer compassionate, helpful advice in future.
The ability to adapt and change your views when faced with a reasoned arguement, backed with evidence, is a sign of an intelligent and wise individual, not weakness.

@Mr. Meowfish, thank you your very kind. I use opiates for pain relief and so am physically dependant but not psychologically addicted. I think this gives me a unique and calm perspective of this issue and thats what i try to put across in my posts.
 
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