Wanting to stop Fent 75's -- been rx'd for years -- is Kratom or pods a way to help?

oldcompgeek

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Had a work accident that left my right hand mangled and about 1/3 is gone. Long story short, am sick of this Duragesic that Dr. gives me every month and refuses to change. He thinks it's a bad idea to quit, but I want to anyway. Tried cold turkey 3x before, but the w/d symptoms leave me unable to function or take care of the family. I researched online, and this stuff called "Kratom" has helped many ppl that have been on strong meds like me -- treating the symptoms successfully. I have also read about others using "pop pods" as well successfully to treat the w/d symptoms long enough to get past the rough part of detoxing. I need to be able to work, and take care of the kids while detoxing so any advice would be appreciated. If I have posted this in the wrong place, I apologize.

Thank you for taking the time to read.


oldcompgeek
 
i dont know if this is good advice but ketamine can lower your tolerance to opiates.

another way to do this is to taper down your opiates. can he put you on weaker patches.

try getting off fentanyl and onto morphine or something weaker. speak to your doctor. i cant rememeber where i read it but it was described to me that fentanyl had the ability to distort your opiate receptors in a way that morphine could not do on account of its strength. i've tried looking for articles on google but all i can find is rat neurotoxicity
 
Well its good that you are definatly wanting to get off this fent dragon and take control. Unfortunatly i dont know if kratom would be much help for you. Fent is strong! and im afraid that kratom might not be enough to take the edge off. However i dont know much about poppy pods, ive heard that they are stronger so you might want to check into that, but be careful. You dont want to replace one habbit for another. Have you considered having your dr make a taper plan for you?
 
Hi OCG, I was addicted to fentanyl for a very short time (just over a month) but I have a fairly long history of opiate abuse and was seriously abusing fentanyl and using, intranasally, at least 20 mg a day towards the end of that binge. I can only tell you that codeine, hydrocodone and morphine did not even make a dent in my withdrawals - doses that would have probably made me very sick or OD only a few weeks before.
If you've been taking 75mcg patches as RX'd, that is, one patch transdermally for three days, your ingestion has been less than 3 mg a day - but due to the nature of the fentanyl molecule, which has an extremely high affinity for the receptors in your brain, I doubt any lesser opioid will help you much. BUT NEVER FEAR!!! Using opioids to 'soften' your w/d, as many here will tell you, really just draws the addiction and the w/d out.

As others have said, the only thing to do is talk to your doctor about it. If he still resists you (most docs are only too happy to reduce/take people off scheduled drugs like this), ask him to refer you to someone else, or (after you've gotten your script of course, don't get left high and dry with this!) go to another doc yourself. We can give you lots of anecdotal and first-hand advice here, but it isn't a substitute at all for a qualified physician, especially one with an interest or specialty in this area. I would imagine that a detox plan for you would involve switching to smaller patches gradually and then jumping off.
If you do decide to cold turkey it, get plenty of benzos and at least 7 days with absolutely nothing else to do

I need to be able to work, and take care of the kids while detoxing so any advice would be appreciated

The only way I see this happening is if you work out an extremely long taper off fentanyl onto other opioids, but bear in mind every time you lower your dose or switch to a weaker narcotic, you're going to feel pretty shit for...a week. Best to get it over and done with really. If you're talking about getting off fent completely, which I think you are, you're going to have to take a few days off work, ideally a full five working days, plus weekends either side, there's no real way to come off without suffering some of the inevitable, sorry to say. The best w/d I've had have all involved plenty of benzodiazepines - valium/serepax/xanax to get to sleep and deal with the anxiety
Benzos for me anyway were the only thing that did anything noticeable during w/d.

You're in for a rough time, but the thing about fentanyl is that what makes it so addicting (very short half life) also makes the withdrawals much shorter than other opioids.
From your post, you don't seem like most people here, I'd be really interested to know (if you don't mind me asking) - is there anything about the feeling of the drug that you like? If the answer to that is 'no, apart from the pain relief', I'd also be extremely interested to hear later if you experience anything like depression or anxiety after the w/d have finished, (post-acute withdrawal syndrome).
Wishing you the absolute best,
buffalo
 
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just tolerance i guess. I used half a gram in 35 days, and very, very little of that was during the first two weeks
 
Well its good that you are definatly wanting to get off this fent dragon and take control. Unfortunatly i dont know if kratom would be much help for you. Fent is strong! and im afraid that kratom might not be enough to take the edge off. However i dont know much about poppy pods, ive heard that they are stronger so you might want to check into that, but be careful. You dont want to replace one habbit for another. Have you considered having your dr make a taper plan for you?

Yes, I have spoken with (and literally begged) him to change the meds to something not so strong. He's older, and for some reason, will not change it. I think that he believes that fent is not as strong as morphine, or methadone, etc... but I remember the one time 2 years ago when he switched me to opana 40mg 2x a day -- giving me a weeks supply -- and I went into full fledged withdrawal within 2 days. It was like not even taking anything compared to the fentanyl. I have been active - as has the old lady -- at researching the best way to do this. I have secured 12 8mg suboxone and thought I had all I needed. I want to be successful and, of course, believe in what I'm doing so it will be successful. I quit street dope and alcohol in 1994 and have never looked back. When the work accident happened in early 2001, and after 6 surgeries, it just kind of took me off guard as I always hated taking even an aspirin lol. Anyway, going straight from fent to suboxone isn't realistic as it will make the w/d worse. I have been wearing halves of my 75's for the last 2 48 hr doses, which should help. I am working on figuring what would be another step down from fent that would be much easier to go to the suboxone from. I appreciate the response, and any advice is appreciated!
 
Thanks for your post, buffalo billygoat! I was hoping for a better solution to just the physical symptoms but ... lol wasn't keeping my hopes up. As far as the "feeling" goes, for me, not feeling bad is my motivation for the last 2 years. The guilt that stacks up from every dr. visit overrides any good feeling the meds may give -- well at least that is what my mind tells me -- I know in my heart that I can deal with the amputation w/o narcotics, but getting there isn't magically going to happen. Used to pride myself on the intestinal fortitude that I possessed after quitting drinking and street dope at 24 -- in 1994 - but this fent has removed that completely... as it has many others. I am realistic tho and do believe there has to be a solution to the w/d symptoms as honestly, the day I woke up in 1994 and decided to quit everything, I actually used a temporary replacement to help. It did help too, and I stopped that in about a week well before it could become a problem. I had used over 5000 bucks in coke the 2 wks prior to leaving it all behind, but the w/d's still weren't like this devil drug is! I appreciate the post, and although I know it's not prob the best decision, I will try to find some type of herb or supplement to temporarily help with the first 3 days of w/d symptoms, so I can then switch to the suboxone that I have. I believe that then my levels will be low enough for it to work well. If you have any tips, then I appreciate that. Thanks again for the post and good luck in your own recovery....
 
Thanks for your post, buffalo billygoat! I was hoping for a better solution to just the physical symptoms but ... lol wasn't keeping my hopes up.

There are many other people here with recommendations for easing w/d. I have seen NSA recommend clonidine and neurontin several times for your purposes, but I have no experience with them. Also valerian and guta kola herb supplements - which I take for anxiety sometimes, but not in w/d. Fucking xanax is the order of the day then, for me at least!

The guilt that stacks up from every dr. visit overrides any good feeling the meds may give

Why do you feel guilty for getting a legitmate script for a serious injury?

I actually used a temporary replacement to help

what did you use?

I really hope you do find a solution. I just think, if you're kicking fentanyl, you should at least be prepared to take a few days off work. I started w/d AT work at 10 in the morning, I was doing a very simple task (industrial painting) and my mind was just all over the place, I had a serious fluctuating temperature and was puking. I had my last dose 6 hours before. I went home sick with 'flu', and nearly crashed my car several times on the way home!
Can you take paid leave? And if not, save for a month while tapering your fent and then take a few days off to kick it, something like that maybe.

I have been wearing halves of my 75's for the last 2 48 hr doses
How has that been?


good luck in your own recovery....

Thank you:)

edit:woohoo, 100posts!
 
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I read most of this... has anyone suggested you switch doctors? You have insurance, yes? Even if you don't switch doctors, maybe make an appointment to see an addiction specialist. Even though it's all legally prescribed and you're taking it for a legitimate issue, you are physically addicted. An addiction specialist could help with helper meds for the WDs.

I had a big time poppy pods addiction for about 3 years. I was spending like 300 a week on them, and now they're more expensive than when I finally got off them about a year ago. (And that's IF you get them from somewhere not ripping you off. Damn things are scarce now.) I def don't recommend those. I found that when I tried a CT quit from the amount of pods I was ingesting that kratom did almost nothing. However, and I don't see how you could do this with patches, what worked for me a was a loooong sloooow taper. I cut my dose by 1/3 and waited for the minord WDs to wear off. Then by 1/3 of the lower dose, and so on, until I was down from about 90g dried pod powder a day to 1g dried powder a day. I was in minor but bearable WDs almost the whole time. I thought I'd be OK jumping from 1 measly gram of pods a day, but when I ran out after my 3 days of 1g a day (calculated it to be out at end of taper) I went into pretty bad WDs. THEN kratom worked. But that was after about 3 months of cutting my dose every 4-5 days.

But then I got hooked on kratom, and have been on and off it for about a year now. I'm trying to get free of it, but seems like everytime I get a week or so clean I decide I can go get a bag and poof! I'm back to using usually. ALthough, I had 7 days day before yesterday and used, and didn't yesterday.

Rambling, sorry. Point is: WDs suck and using anything addictive, be it benzos, kratom, pods, alcohol, etc., to ease the WDs can easily land one in a new addiction. This is why an addiction specialist, some counseling and some other help may be what will help you get through this.

Best to you and love to all,
pnm
 
Just to clarify, OCG, I'm talking benzos for two weeks *max*. Just for the anxiety and sleep. Not trading one habit for another, but for an on label rx.
 
Well, buffalo, let me see if I can answer you as I ain't real crafty with the quote button or however you separated that stuff...lol.
If you've quit stuff before, then you know what guilt that I mean. Although, in 1994, it was only old-school p2p dope, weed, and coke, it was still my start of sobriety. Oh and alcohol, although I don't really like that much. Somewhere between the 1st and 5th surgeries, things went from quitting pain meds after EVERY surgery, to just plain NOT quitting. I dunno if I got weaker or my body or both. Hell, don't much matter, but one day I awoke knowing that there's a difference between taking something when you hurt, and this demonic medication. That guilt has piled up since that day until I'm man enough to leave it behind and be able to stick my chest out again and have the strength that I "portray" outwardly actually be real on the inside...

The half that I put on yesterday morning is still on me, albeit feeling fairly crappy but not as bad as full blown w/d's for sure. All this crap ( fear creation) that I read on here is keeping me from ripping this off right now. I have secured vacation time until Monday from the factory but the old lady and I have read "after 48 hours off the patch I took 8mg or 4mg suboxone and it was the worst Ive felt" or "I took my 2mg dose of subx 17 hrsa after removal and feel like a new man" and everything inbetween. Wtf? who the heck knows whats right for me? 44 yr old skinny 175 lb high metabolic rate? Since I "have" 12 - 8mg subx ready to go, but don't have the support of my dr..? I believe that some people have waited long enough and just didn't take enough suboxone in relation to how high their tolerance was. I mean, if 24 hrs. ago, you "ate" a 100mcg patch, then I really doubt you'll be outta w/d by taking 4mg of suboxone... BUT I am just spitballing, of course as I know nothing for sure, just logically thinking I reckon. "SWIM" , as I guess my name is now? == helped step 1/2 way down the ladder with 4 crappy op 40's.... in ref to your question. I tell u what, aint a MF thing that you can seamlessly transfer to, well opiate wise anyway from fent unless you got a truckload... I do appreciate everybody's responses, and If anyone knows anything about this "spitting" theory about the naloxone would appreciate the wisdom. The precipitated w/d's have to be caused either by it or the much lower strength of the bupe...right? So, in theory, if we spit the saliva out with the naxolene, while taking the recommended dose of sub at the recommended time, then that will leave little to chance, right?

Got the clonidine, Neurontin, immodium, Zofran, and vitamins ready just wondering about timings. Thanks all, and keep your stubborn chins up! This #@$# ain't kickin us, it's the other way around

P.S. I'm editing b/c after reading the official suboxone website, they say that bupe-only meds are to be used for induction...maybe that's why the big descrapancy in ppl's induced withdrawals? Hopefully I can find a way to keep the naxolene from getting in?
 
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So, I went into my Dr.'s office late yesterday afternoon and basically begged, pleaded and even tried to sweet talk his wife (The Nurse) into inducing me with Subutex. I got a nasty attitude back from them both (He was walking into the office when I was speaking) like that was also MUCH worse of a medicine than the Fentanyl..!! I was also informed after asking, that they "no longer prescribe vicoprofen or similar meds although she was happy to write me for 15 more 75mcg patches AND would've called my insurance to get it approved early too!! ??? wtf? I thought that since my tolerance and level is so low to the Fent now, that I might could've just taken the Vicoprofen for a few days, tyen just induced myself with the suboxone. It shouldn't be as large a risk going from Vicoprofen to Suboxone than from ANY dose of Fent. I'm still flabberghasted, and the old lady almost flipped out right there. I'll let ya know how it plays out!!

Good luck y'all
 
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