2012-2013 Football Thread v.2

[The Liberal Media]

Mate I totally disagree Roman redifined football, he opened up the parameters

Before Roman how many teams were winning the league
Man Utd
Leeds( once)
Blackburn( with roman type investment)
and many millions of years ago the bin dippers


What Roman did was force teams to up the competition.
With no Roman we get no investment in the likes of Southampton( a team that is really going places now)
FFP is the real problem, people need to realise that the main teams that wanted it was Man Utd and david Gill and Bayern so that they could stay at the top cos each year they would be in CL and use that revenue, that system would make it impossible for teams like Parma and Lazio(as they did in the late 90's) and other spenders like Shakhtar Dontesk to pump money into the game and make it more competitive

If Roman had not come along it would be the same old shit

Man Utd winning each year
Robben and Mikel and Ballack to United
Essien as well

Do you really want to see United win the league year after year ?

They would cos under FFP even though they took on a lot of debt the glazers just fix the accounts and use the CL money and premiership game incomes to " balance their books" even though the are running a debt

This is the real financial doping , roman blew that equation out of the water when he came in and lent money to chelsea and then converted all the debt into equity

 

[brimz]

How many young English players have come through and broke into the first team and stayed there since Abramovich took over? None. Bertrand is behind Cole in the pecking order so it is a little unlucky for him in that respect that he's second fiddle to the England left back. Josh McEachran is the other and the last I heard he was on loan in the Championship, 2 years ago people were suffering from premature ejaculation at the mention of his name.

Is the Premier League more competitive now than it was before his arrival? I'm not sure really, last year wasn't very competitive at all and next season there is going to be an ever so clear divide between the top table sides and the mid/bottom table sides, the difference now seems to be that you can be really shit and still stay up now more often than in the past.

 

[The Liberal Media]

JOsh is not good enough, or else he would be getting more than the odd game for Boro
When he went to swansea he only played 4 games

The problem isnt abramoich mate its the stupid " homegrown players rule" the premiership put into place

Thereby guys like tomas kalas, matej delac and lucas piazon count as "homegrown"

The only reason chelsea stockpile players and especially attacking MF is simple, attacking MF has the greatest sell on value, you can never get say 20 million for a left back but many atacking MF can go for 20 million.

The club then buys and " parks" a lot of attacking midfield players around europe knowing that most will never play for the club
What this does is gives the club some leverage so they can sell the players on and count it as FFP income when they sell them
seeing as attcking MF players are the most expensive its why teams like chelsea sign them and loan them out , they see it as a source of income

footy aint about players anymore mate, at least not the ones who will play for you, its about how much you can sell them for at a later date even if they dont ever play for you

Blame platini and ffp , dont blame the players hate the game

 

[brimz]

"Stockpile Players "

I really have heard it all know . So these guy's are just coming for the £ as they know they will maybe get 3/4 games max a season . They should want to be playing even if is at a lower level , not just picking up Romans ill gotten gains & rotting away in the reserves.

I said English players so no the ones you mentioned do not count. Are they eligible for England ? No . So they are not English .

 

[The Liberal Media]

The players I mentioned were ones who have not played for chelsea
They get signed by the big club like chelsea, spend a few years on loan and play in portugal or germany or holland

they then before their contracts run out get sold and their agent gets another cut of the pie

this is the way footy works

but its the premiership that says you have to have xxx AMOUNT of "homegrown players" and any team is free to sign any player from any country and as long as they spend 3 years registered with the premiership club and are under 21 they are classed as "homegrown" regardless if they are from timbucktoo or tooting

the premiership put this rule into place so they should be blamed no abramovich

and if Josh was any good why cant he be loaned out and spend some time with a premiership team? guess this year we will see, but from reading most boro forums last year he was pretty average there, so he cant be that great of a player, nice tidy passer but nowt else

Btw brimz, england just lost 2-0 to egypt in the under 20 world cup and were winless in a group of the world powerhouses of iraq,chile and egypt

they have now gone 16 games without winning a tournament game at under 20 level and their last win was in 1997
Its not the lack of experience that the players get thats the problem

what will it take for people to admit the english players are crap?

 

[brimz]

J.Cole , R Ferdinand , J Terry , G Johnson , J Defoe , M Carrick, F Lampard all crap nah don't think so,

oh yeah they all came through the West Ham Academy & are all still playing .

Who of that calibre has Chelsea produced that is English that is still playing ? Oh yeah & you have spent £150 mill on your academy what a fukin joke :D


Yeah i saw the U20s fukin deplorable .

 

[Funkadelica]

Enjoyed the Confederations Cup but the fucking diving and play acting really is getting beyond a joke now. Fucking little cunt Neymar the worst for it. Hate the horrible little shit and hope he gets kicked off the park in Spain by the Madrid boys. Some goal though against Japan and he is very talented. Don't like this Brazil team. Where has the flair gone? Can see that with Scolari in charge it's win at all costs instead of in style like the old, stylish familiar Brazil.

Spain are not out of it by any means next year. Be there or thereabouts come the end. Agree with TLM about Belgium. Very good team unit with some very good young players. Ripped Scotland apart last year. I don't think they are going to win the cup but they might pull a Sweden or Croatia of the 90's and win the 3rd Place Playoff.

Euro 2016 however...

 

[Mendo_K]

FFP is the real problem, people need to realise that the main teams that wanted it was Man Utd and david Gill and Bayern so that they could stay at the top cos each year they would be in CL and use that revenue, that system would make it impossible for teams like Parma and Lazio(as they did in the late 90's) and other spenders like Shakhtar Dontesk to pump money into the game and make it more competitive

If Roman had not come along it would be the same old shit

Man Utd winning each year
Robben and Mikel and Ballack to United
Essien as well

Do you really want to see United win the league year after year ?

They would cos under FFP even though they took on a lot of debt the glazers just fix the accounts and use the CL money and premiership game incomes to " balance their books" even though the are running a debt

Not really true, at all. The teams in the PL voted and won the majority, ie a majority of the PL teams wanted FFP. The opposing teams were Man City, Southampthon, West Brom, Fulham and Aston Villa. Chelsea voted for FFP...

How is FFP a bad thing, a cap on wages and a cap on club losses, wonder why Chelsea voted FOR then.. wage caps? Or are they happy to pay there way to the top, but once they are there they dont want other teams to do the same? hmmm cant have been the club losses then Everything that is wrong with England related to the PL, in Germany, Spain, Italy the top leagues all have majority players from there country, but England being poor also goes much deeper into the way kids are taught to play, the academys etc and also pressure.

This spain domination wont last, tika taka got raped recently in the CL and last night shown up again. Teams are learning how to play/defend against it. Spain lost to USA though in the last confed cup and look what happened, not saying anything early just yet about the World Cup but I do think Brazil will be found out, I think they may get to the semis.

Anyway ill just leave this here yeah, spending from 1992 - 2012. 8)

 

[plmar]

Anyway ill just leave this here yeah, spending from 1992 - 2012. 8)

Does that even include wages? Fucking christ

 

[brimz]

Not really true, at all. The teams in the PL voted and won the majority, ie a majority of the PL teams wanted FFP. The opposing teams were Man City, Southampthon, West Brom, Fulham and Aston Villa. Chelsea voted for FFP...

How is FFP a bad thing, a cap on wages and a cap on club losses, wonder why Chelsea voted FOR then.. wage caps? Or are they happy to pay there way to the top, but once they are there they dont want other teams to do the same? hmmm cant have been the club losses then Everything that is wrong with England related to the PL, in Germany, Spain, Italy the top leagues all have majority players from there country, but England being poor also goes much deeper into the way kids are taught to play, the academys etc and also pressure.

This spain domination wont last, tika taka got raped recently in the CL and last night shown up again. Teams are learning how to play/defend against it. Spain lost to USA though in the last confed cup and look what happened, not saying anything early just yet about the World Cup but I do think Brazil will be found out, I think they may get to the semis.

Anyway ill just leave this here yeah, spending from 1992 - 2012. 8)

Proud to see my team @ 17 cos that means we've had excellent value for money in the last 20 years , relegations , promotions , dodgy players, even dodgier managers, some great foootball & plenty of shit as well i wouldn't have it any other way
:D

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Not really true, at all. The teams in the PL voted and won the majority, ie a majority of the PL teams wanted FFP. The opposing teams were Man City, Southampthon, West Brom, Fulham and Aston Villa. Chelsea voted for FFP...

How is FFP a bad thing, a cap on wages and a cap on club losses, wonder why Chelsea voted FOR then.. wage caps? Or are they happy to pay there way to the top, but once they are there they dont want other teams to do the same? hmmm cant have been the club losses then Everything that is wrong with England related to the PL, in Germany, Spain, Italy the top leagues all have majority players from there country, but England being poor also goes much deeper into the way kids are taught to play, the academys etc and also pressure.

This spain domination wont last, tika taka got raped recently in the CL and last night shown up again. Teams are learning how to play/defend against it. Spain lost to USA though in the last confed cup and look what happened, not saying anything early just yet about the World Cup but I do think Brazil will be found out, I think they may get to the semis.

Anyway ill just leave this here yeah, spending from 1992 - 2012. 8)

Interesting table Mendo, good find. Can I ask that when you post an interesting link like that you also post a link to the actual site you got the info from? Cheers.

Does that even include wages? Fucking christ

Looks just like transfer costs to me.

Proud to see my team @ 17 cos that means we've had excellent value for money in the last 20 years , relegations , promotions , dodgy players, even dodgier managers, some great foootball & plenty of shit as well i wouldn't have it any other way
:D

+ 1 for Swansea who were 90 mins from going out of the whole league halfway through what that period covers. Amazing what they've achieved when you look at that table.

It's also a sad reminder we have to put up with Crystal fucking Palace for 38 games next year. 8(

 

[Mental Kenny]

Kenny the thing is Belgium can play as a team. Yes that may not look like a bunch of players who would get into Barca but most top clubs in Europe would love those players. You must have seen the 4-2 win over Holland. Argentina will be the same as always, good going forward but look at their backline. They havent had a decent defender since walter samuel in his pomp Colllocinni is always injured and Zabaleta never rated him although Garay is decent enough.

They will do the same as usual and look great going forward then then come up against a half decent team and lose like in 2010.
Belgium could beat argentina now. Kompany and Vermalen would walk into Argentina's backline
Actually so would Vertonghen

Look I agree that Belgium have a lot of very good upcoming players, they are a cohesive unit with a good balance of technique and individual ability.

But, let's try to keep our feet on the ground for a minute.

When I read your comment, I had just came across similar comments about Belgium on the Guardian football blogs, all coming from English fans.

I really don't see how anybody could rate their chances better than those of countries that reached the later stages of the Euros, I mean when Italy were getting battered playing with ten men against Spain in Kiev, the Belgians were at home watching the game on telly. Italy, Spain, Germany and Portugal all reached at least the semi-finals of a tournament the Belgians didn't even manage to qualify for.

They didn't even manage to qualify for the bloody tournament, now if they had pulled a Greece, I might understand, but they haven't even yet performed on the international stage.

It's all hype, no substance, so to say that they have a chance of winning the WC in Brazil of all places, is irrational.

For the WC I'd say Brazil, Spain, Italy, Germany, Uruguay and Argentina must be the favourites in that order. With perhaps an African team performing better than expected.

 

[The Liberal Media]

http://bergkampesque.com/2013/05/06/ffp-fundamentally-flawed-policy-why-freedom-is-best/

Good read entitled ..
FFP – Fundamentally Flawed Policy? Why Freedom is Best.

How many other sectors of the Business world would have restrictions like FFP?
Any business starting out can or would be able to borrow as much as possible depending on the wishes and conditions of the lender
This loan/debt will then be passed on down to the consumer( ie the fan) to balance the books ( or an attempt to)
Why should football ( which is a business now im afraid to state)be different
If arsenal want to charge 150 a ticket and Bayern want to charge 18 euros, what is stopping it happening

just supply and demand really

 

[Mendo_K]

Interesting table Mendo, good find. Can I ask that when you post an interesting link like that you also post a link to the actual site you got the info from? Cheers.

Yep its from http://transferleague.co.uk/ , has tables of club finances like turnover and where the money is coming from etc just scroll down a bit and have an explore, also has transfer league tables since 2003.

 

[Mendo_K]

Also TLM a little viewing for you of Matthew Syeds views on Romans 10 year "reign" at the club, take a look on Sky Sports.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GmCtci6cen8

 

[The Liberal Media]

Van Ginkel to Chelsea done and dusted.
All while Arsenal' pursuit of Higuain drags on and on ( Thought it was a done deal weeks ago) rumor is he is now waiting for a last minute offer from Juventus ( Lets be honest who wouldnt)

Think what you want of Roman, you cannot argue with the potential and sheer magnitude of his overhaul of a squad that was deemed "old" when Ancelotti was there

Marco van Ginkel 20
Eden Hazard 22
Oscar, 23
Cesar Azpilicueta 23
Oriol Romeu 21
Victor Moses 22
Andre Schurrle 22
Romelu Lukaku 20
Thorgan Hazard
Kenneth Omeruo
Tomas Kalas 20
Thibaut Courtois 21
Lucas Piazon 19
Kevin De Bruyne 22
Nathaniel Chalobah 18
Wallace 18
Ake 18

 

[brimz]

West Ham fan mate don't really give a shit bout you lot tbh .

Just thought that the debate about Roman we had was a good one .

How many of dem gonna be on loan i guess 6 at least .

 

[bogman]

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/fans-butcher-referee-after-stabbing-29401366.html

 

[The Liberal Media]

West Ham fan mate don't really give a shit bout you lot tbh .

Just thought that the debate about Roman we had was a good one .

How many of dem gonna be on loan i guess 6 at least .

Your mob are about to sign Zapata, supposed to be a real prospect. So its quite a coup really.

From the list i posted mate I would say something like this
Marco van Ginkel 20 stays ay the Bridge
Eden Hazard 22 Bridge
Oscar, 23 Ditto
Cesar Azpilicueta 23 Ditto
Oriol Romeu 21 possibly loaned to Valencia or Celta Vigo
Victor Moses 22 Think he will be sold, maybe everton
Andre Schurrle 22 Bridge
Romelu Lukaku 20 Bridge ( Heard Jose has a real hardon for him)
Thorgan Hazard Another year in Belgiium, many think he will turn out to be better than his brother, cant wait to see his progress
Kenneth Omeruo Think he will stay in Holland a year on loan
Tomas Kalas 20 Could be back , would not surprise me if he playing 15-20 games for us this season
Thibaut Courtois 21 Loan at Atletico Madrid altready arranged
Lucas Piazon 19 Youth Coach says he will be loaned this year , Crystal Palace or a Bundesliga team
Kevin De Bruyne 22 Jose says he will be in the first team this year
Nathaniel Chalobah 18 Loan at Watford
Wallace 18 Loan probabaly in Portugal so he can adjust to european footy
Ake 18 Will stay with first team

 

[brimz]

we won't get him unless he has a European wife . Work Permit Init .