Permanent MDMA damage to a very young mind?

[justme6263]

Hi BL!

About 3 weeks ago I got a late night phone call from my 16 year old cousin who was in quite a state, he told me he had taken some MDMA (his first time) with a friend and he ended up taking about 1g but possibly more. The friend confirmed it was about that much to me. Anyway he was in quite a panic and I went to pick him up to make sure he was in a safe environment. When I got there he was a write off, he was having hallucinations thinking people were trying to stab him, he hallucinated that I was screaming at him not to do drugs (which I most definitely was not) and that the wall paper in the bedroom was moving. He was sweating more than I have ever seen anyone sweat in my entire lifetime. Anyway I got him back home and into some light weight clothes, kept him hydrated making sure he was drinking enough but not too much water, kept toweling the sweat off his head (got through 3 large towels with the amount he was dripping). Anyway the hallucinations mostly stopped after a bout 4 hours but he was still in a bad way. All in all he was like this, slight hallucinations and severe sweating, for about 11 hours. In hindsight I should have taken him to hospital but at the time I thought it would have made him worse as he was extremely paranoid.

Anyway after that I made sure to spend the next few days with him when he seemed pretty okay, his normal self and helped me doing a couple of gardening jobs. I thought he was back to normal. He didn't have anymore drugs (normally he is quite a heavy weed smoker) or alcohol and I made sure he was looking after himself, however I then had to go to a festival and he started spending time with the usual friends. One night I was at the festival I got a phone call from him saying "It's happening again". He was thinking people were after him and was very paranoid. Anyway I phoned my dad who got to him right away and tried to calm him down but couldn't, we then contacted his parents who picked him up. Turns out he had been smoking weed that day and he reckoned that's what got to him. His parents now aware of the situation kept an eye on him and he hadn't had any weed or anything else for the next 6 days. However this morning my aunt, his mother, called me and said last night my cousin had a bad night. He went to bed fine and my uncle and aunt went to bed shortly after only to wake up to screaming and him running into their room saying he could hear voices. Took them ages to calm him down.

Anyway they took him to the doctors today who said he will refer him to a children's mental health service, he seems better today having spoken to him and my aunt but he said he doesn't feel 100% right and my aunt knows he will take time to recover. My question is do you think there is any chance permanent damage has been done? For such a young lad he smokes A LOT of weed and I have my suspicions he has taken a lot of cocaine and mephedrone just because I know his friends (who are much older) do a lot of it. And I mean a lot.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

PS I'm not sure if this is the correct board for this thread but I put it hear due to the initial episode happening while on MDMA, please feel free to move it to the appropriate thread.

EDIT: His friend who took the MD with him said he can guarantee it was MDMA, also he had no episode but he is about 5 years older and has done it a number of times. They took around the same quantity.

 

[swedger77]

Anyway he was in quite a panic and I went to pick him up to make sure he was in a safe environment. When I got there he was a write off, he was having hallucinations thinking people were trying to stab him, he hallucinated that I was screaming at him not to do drugs (which I most definitely was not) and that the wall paper in the bedroom was moving.

Not likely to be MDMA in my opinion.

 

[justme6263]

Not likely to be MDMA in my opinion.

When I say Hallucinations people were trying to stab him, it's not that he could see them more that he thought they were after him. Not sure if that changes anything? I know when I have taken a relatively large amount of good MD I get hallucinations just nothing bad, more just that I see chairs and things, or that I try to stand on a bench that isn't there. I know the person they got the drugs off and I get my MDMA off the same person, so I know it to be reliable. The same thought did cross my mind though, any idea what it may have been?

 

[swedger77]

When I say Hallucinations people were trying to stab him, it's not that he could see them more that he thought they were after him. Not sure if that changes anything? I know when I have taken a relatively large amount of good MD I get hallucinations just nothing bad, more just that I see chairs and things, or that I try to stand on a bench that isn't there. I know the person they got the drugs off and I get my MDMA off the same person, so I know it to be reliable. The same thought did cross my mind though, any idea what it may have been?

the fact he was not full on hallucinating (proper tripping), there is more chance it was MDMA. Sounds like he was just having a major drug induced paranoid episode. TBH 1g of MDMA is a fucking huge amount for a first time.

who the fuck let a 16yr old have 1g of MDMA, no wonder he went all wrong. The fact he is a heavy weed smoker might not be helping things......he was perhaps getting a bit paranoid from all the weed smoking and the huge MDMA dosage tipped him over the edge.

Hearing voices sounds like schizophrenia or very possibly with what you have said cannabis psychosis which has extremely similar symptoms. He's in the right hands with the mental health services.

Most people will know someone with mental health issues.I know 2 people who I went to school with who lost it from smoking weed and taking acid when they were young. Its not a nice thought, but some people can cope with drugs and others can't. Hopefully your cousin can recover from whatever he is experiencing.

Swedge

 

[justme6263]

Thanks for getting back to me, it is much appreciated. I'm hoping he just had too much and given time and rest he will be back to himself in time, he really has had a shock and is adamant he isn't touching anything again. He is such a nice and likable lad it is just heartbreaking to see him how he is at the minute, it doesn't help that we (the family) don't know anyone else who has gone through something like this.

Like you I couldn't believe his 21 year old friend let him have that much for the first time but it's not worth getting frustrated, what's done is done.

I was wondering whether it might be worth giving him some 5-HTP to see if that can help, or should I leave it to the medical and mental health professionals now?

 

[Dawglaw]

leave it to the medical and mental health professionals now?

This. Do not give him any substances unless directed by a medical professional.

 

[Exstazy]

I would guess no permanent damage has been done, just let some time pass, it will get better. Obsessing about damage that NOBODY knows is there or not will just make it worse...
Sounds like you need to help this kid get some new friends. His current friends sound like drug fiending idiots who lets a kid go way overboard and into paranoia land... they are NOT his friends, and it sounds like you should be able to tell him that

This is what gives drugs a bad name. Tbh it didnt sound like real MDMA because 1gram is so fuckin much for a first timer it's ridiclious.. anything above 200mg is huge

But seriously dont worry about permanent damage, his brain will be fine, trust me on that. It's very normal to feel fucked up after mdma, at much lower doses, its part of the "game"

The biggest problem is his habits/friends.. if this continues he'll probably be on meth in a few years and God knows where he might end up. Get him out of the drug scene. He is not ready

 

[swedger77]

This. Do not give him any substances unless directed by a medical professional.

Agreed. From what you have said it sounds like he is experiencing something outwith the normal realms of a comedown...even a "long term comedown"

Hopefully he will get back to normal and the scare has made him realise drugs are not for him.

Some people, for what ever reason are simply not suited to drugs. He needs to understand that, which can be hard if everyine around you is taking drugs and are having fun without major negitive side effects.

 

[The Dr]

MDMA can give VERY violent hallucinations, so dismissing the fact MDMA can't give hallucinations is false. So he could have ingested MDMA, but regardless if has worsening symptoms over the course of several weeks he should get some help.

 

[justme6263]

Thanks to everybody for the responses, really is appreciated.

I am hoping that given time to rest and recuperate he will be back to his normal self, it really gave me a shock seeing him and how he was today. A completely different lad, it's made me reconsider my own attitude towards me taking drugs even though I've personally never had a episode like this. My cousin has now realised he needs to lay off everything for a good while, he is saying he won't be taking drugs again and I really do hope he sticks with that.

I'm going to see him again on Friday and I'm holding out that there will be a marked improvement in him if anything only for his sanity, I don't want him to start thinking he is going to be like this forever. Me and his mother are of the opinion that the prolonged heavy weed smoking has done more damage than the one large dose of MDMA but if I'm honest it is just a hunch.

Once again thanks for the responses and I will keep you updated as to how he improves.

 

[Exstazy]

MDMA is way more harmfull than weed dude..

he feels like crap because he used up his "feel good" chemicals ;P they will come back within a few weeks

Everyone here knows exactly how it is, bad hangovers make life seem to suck balls
Its not the drugs, its they way they were taken.. way too much, way too young

 

[justme6263]

MDMA is way more harmfull than weed dude..

he feels like crap because he used up his "feel good" chemicals ;P they will come back within a few weeks

Everyone here knows exactly how it is, bad hangovers make life seem to suck balls
Its not the drugs, its they way they were taken.. way too much, way too young

I generally agree that if abused MDMA is very dangerous but I was thinking that the paranoia and hearing things could be related to the heavy weed smoking? Like I say I don't know how likely that is but having used MDMA a lot I've never had a episode similar to this, admittedly I didn't start using it so young or at such high doses. I still don't use particularly high doses of MD>.

 

[Exstazy]

I generally agree that if abused MDMA is very dangerous but I was thinking that the paranoia and hearing things could be related to the heavy weed smoking? Like I say I don't know how likely that is but having used MDMA a lot I've never had a episode similar to this, admittedly I didn't start using it so young or at such high doses. I still don't use particularly high doses of MD>.

It could be related, definetly. Then again, it might not. The only thing you can really do now, is keep him sober for 2 weeks to a month. If he is still hearing noices i would seek profesional help.
Just try to get his parents to keep him relaxed. Drink tea, eat healthy, get loads of sleep and go for a jog now and then. But if he still hears stuff that isnt there after 30 days or so, you will need professional help I think

Weed has been linked to trigger schizophrenia in certain individuals, alcohol too. Just get him 100% sober and take it from there.. its all u can do. Dont hesitate to seek help if he doesnt get any better. And for gods sake, get him away from his abusive "friends"

 

[swedger77]

MDMA can give VERY violent hallucinations, so dismissing the fact MDMA can't give hallucinations is false. So he could have ingested MDMA, but regardless if has worsening symptoms over the course of several weeks he should get some help.

Thats news to me....."violent hallucinations".

I always thought that some MDMA at high doses is converting into MDA which is what causes the hallucinations and even then its pretty mild and normally confusing and funny...like seeing moustaches and sunglasses on people. Aside from the fact the OP has already told us that he was not full on hallucinating.....he was more having a paranoid freak-out.



From Erowid:-

MDMA EFFECTS:-

POSITIVE
mild to extreme mood lift, euphoria
increased willingness to communicate
increase in energy (stimulation)
ego softening
decreased fear, anxiety, and insecurities
feelings of comfort, belonging, and closeness to others
feelings of love and empathy
forgiveness of self and others
a sense of inner peace and acceptance of self, others, and the world
increased awareness & appreciation of music
increased awareness of senses (taste, smell, touch, hearing, vision)
increased tactile sensation (pleasure from the sense of touch and being touched)
life-changing spiritual experiences
sensations bright and intense
urge to hug and kiss people
analgesia, anti-nocioception, decreased pain perception

NEUTRAL
decreased appetite
visual distortion
rapid, involuntary eye jiggling (nystagmus)
mild visual hallucinations (uncommon)
moderately increased heart rate and blood pressure (increases with dose)
restlessness, nervousness, shivering
change in body temperature regulation
upwellings of unexpected emotion, emotional lability
strong desire to do or want more when coming down

NEGATIVE
(negative side effects increase with higher doses and frequent use)
inappropriate and/or unintended emotional bonding
anxiety or paranoia (less common than opposite)
agitation (less common than opposite)
tendency to say things you might feel uncomfortable about later
mild to extreme jaw clenching (trisma), tongue and cheek chewing, and teeth grinding (bruxia)
difficulty concentrating & problems with activities requiring linear focus
short-term memory scramble or loss & confusion
short periods of swooning, or disconnection from the external world, usually at very high doses or during brief blasts of intense rushing while coming up.
muscle tension
insomnia, inability to fall asleep when physically tired
erectile disfunction and difficulty reaching orgasm
increase in body temperature, hyperthermia, dehydration (drink water)
hyponatremia (don't drink too much water)
nausea and vomiting
headaches, dizziness, loss of balance, and vertigo
sadness on coming down, sense of loss or immediate nostalgia
post-trip Crash - unpleasantly harsh comedown from the peak effect
hangover the next day, lasting days to weeks
mild depression and fatigue for up to a week
severe depression and/or fatigue (uncommon)
possible strong urge to repeat the experience, though not physically addictive
possible psychological crisis requiring hospitalization (psychotic episodes, severe panic attacks, etc) (rare)
possible liver toxicity (rare)
possible neurotoxicity (controversial)
small risk of death; approximately 2 per 100,000 new users have extreme negative reactions resulting in death (rare)

 

[swedger77]

MDMA is way more harmfull than weed dude..

Its not the drugs, its they way they were taken.. way too much, way too young

Agreed, but weed in certain people can cause more problems especially with long term useage. Unfortunately there is only one way to find out.

 

[F1n1shed]

At that age... or any age 1 gram of confirmed MDMA is an extremely high dose. He is 16 for fuck sakes, his brain is still developing. I would bet part of his sertonin system may never reach it's full potential. Not trying to scare you , but MDMA is one drug youngsters really shouldn't be messing with. I mean i was spacing out my usage and never went over 300mg in one night, and i still felt loopy in the head during my recovery phase. You make SURE he is not taking any more MDMA at all. If schizophrenia doesn't run in your family tell him if he must use drugs he can smoke weed. But drill it in his head, he is NOT allowed to do MDMA especially since he is irresponsible with it.

Take it from someone who has done loads of research on this subject.

 

[F1n1shed]

Agreed, but weed in certain people can cause more problems especially with long term useage. Unfortunately there is only one way to find out.

Um... i would seriously doubt that. MDMA will almost always cause more problems than weed, if you are talking about taking them same amount as each other. That is fact, MDMA is a potent neuro toxin which cleaves axons, while weed is not. Weed used once in a while is virtually harmless, MDMA used once in a while can still cause a lot of problems. It happens time and time again if you keep up with these come down threads.

 

[swedger77]

Um... i would seriously doubt that. MDMA will almost always cause more problems than weed, if you are talking about taking them same amount as each other.

Im clearly NOT talking about taking the same amount. The OP said his cousin was "quite a heavy weed smoker" which would imply he smokes every day, possibly several times a day. I am comparing this to someone who would regularly take MDMA......even once a week at most would be deemed heavy use round these parts.

IMO this continual weed smoking has a greater potential for mental health problems than MDMA. - Just my opinion, nothing more. I actually don't know anyone who has suffered long term mental issues from MDMA. As I said in an earlier post we are all wired up differently.

 

[justme6263]

Im clearly NOT talking about taking the same amount. The OP said his cousin was "quite a heavy weed smoker" which would imply he smokes every day, possibly several times a day. I am comparing this to someone who would regularly take MDMA......even once a week at most would be deemed heavy use round these parts.

IMO this continual weed smoking has a greater potential for mental health problems than MDMA. - Just my opinion, nothing more. I actually don't know anyone who has suffered long term mental issues from MDMA. As I said in an earlier post we are all wired up differently.

Quite correct, until this recent episode he would smoke weed everyday throughout the day.

 

[F1n1shed]

Im clearly NOT talking about taking the same amount. The OP said his cousin was "quite a heavy weed smoker" which would imply he smokes every day, possibly several times a day. I am comparing this to someone who would regularly take MDMA......even once a week at most would be deemed heavy use round these parts.

IMO this continual weed smoking has a greater potential for mental health problems than MDMA. - Just my opinion, nothing more. I actually don't know anyone who has suffered long term mental issues from MDMA. As I said in an earlier post we are all wired up differently.

Fair enough