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Has there been a change in ecstasy over the years?

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flintgus

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May 23, 2013
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My GF of 4 years used to be a ravergirl back in her day. We've had many discussions about the scene back then and how it has all changed. Her and I are in our mid-30s and we enjoy the company of Molly every now and then (4x per year) and she still enjoys it deeply. She says it used to be very different back then. Specifically, the rolls were harder, more intense, stronger positive and neutral side effects (empathy, euphoria, jaw clenching and eye wiggles), lasting longer (+25 percent) and less hangover. She cant explain it much other than maybe they were made different and cuz she was younger and her body might have accepted the drugs better than now. but she doesnt think that she simply 'lost the magic', cuz she even recognizes my rolls as not being as too short or not as intense. I once read that the manufacturing process between then and now is completely different and that may explain some of the differences she is experiencing.

Anyone know what she is talking about or is she in denial about losing her magic?
 
I am not sure where in the world you are...circa 91-95 here in Europe, most of the ecstasy was coming from Holland. It's magic ingredient was MDEA, which was a furious come up, then a wasted feeling some people akin to heroin, then another come up etc. Up and down. Not to mention the furious dancing and the overwhelming 'losing yourself in the music' feeling. My dick used to shrink on these pills, meaning they had a good dose of amphet in them too. Todays pure MDMA does not make my cock shrink at all!

The likes of Doves, Disco Biscuits, Squares and Snowballs of 91-95 Europe were definitely stronger than todays very best Dutch pills. I took a solid 15 year break then had some uber clean MDMA which was nice, but I wasn't overwhelmed anything and my clothes certainly were not drenched from sweat.

I definitely feel the older MDMA/MDEA/Amphet combo pills were stronger, lasted longer and you could do them more regularly for sure. Todays MDMA in comparison seems to be shorter duration, less energetic and any more than using once a month seems to make the buzz pretty poor. In the old days, it rave/techno was so huge in Europe that people did pills every week, for months. But conversely 1/2 pill or 1 pill was all that was required. Today I've found myself doing up to 3 x 150mg pills in a night. I might add 'old skool' pills did not knock your sex drive out like pure MDMA.

SIDE POINT : MDEA can't be made now due to lack of precursors to make the compound. And in the past safrole was used to make MDMA, now they use PMK. Safrole I understand is converted to PMK anyway so theoretically should make no difference.
 
I agree def not the same. I was in the UK in 94 and it was an incredible time. The old feeling was just as your GF describes. You could do it every weekend and dance your ass off and have a kick ass time. Meeting people, talking, dancing, drinking tons of water, getting lost in the music! Boy it was fun. I to took at 10 + yr break and have tried it maybe 3 times in the past yr and truthfully - it sucks! You just feel weird and introverted, no urge to talk and dance or even go out! IMP isn't just not any fun and therefor not worth it cause it's just a big disappointment.
 
Nicsdragon said:
You could do it every weekend and dance your ass off and have a kick ass time. Meeting people, talking, dancing, drinking tons of water, getting lost in the music!
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Exactly. Now I see people on pills drinking alcohol all night. Circa 94, the pills were so strong, forget alcohol! The thought of consuming a beer was insanity. And everyone did 1/2 pill or 1 pill. Rarely any more unless it was a 12 hour rave.

Back then, the pills made you dance furiously, I presume amphet. Yet you could go to sleep without any benzos after taking them ok.

On the + side, physically exertion on pure MDMA of today is fairly low. You can recover over the weekend fine.
 
yeah not enough of the MDMA has Safrole as the Precursor these days . Hence the poor quality .

It's magic ingredient was MDEA
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wtf that stuff ruined the fukin early 90s rave scene it was all good till that shit came along in about 97 . I was there from 1991 .

And in the past safrole was used to make MDMA, now they use PMK. Safrole I understand is converted to PMK anyway so theoretically should make no difference.
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but my god it does .

Mark i don't disagree with all you say however & it's good to see another older UK head on board .
Red n Black was my first pill 1991 .
Peace mate.
 
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brimz said:
yeah not enough of the MDMA has Safrole as the Precursor these days . Hence the poor quality .

wtf that stuff ruined the fukin early 90s rave scene it was all good till that shit came along in about 97 . I was there from 1991 .



but my god it does .

Mark i don't disagree with all you say however & it's good to see another older UK head on board .
Red n Black was my first pill 1991 .
Peace mate.
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How can you possibly know that's the cause of the change in quality? Also, all (reasonable and commonly used) synthetic routes to MDMA via safrole pass through PMK as an intermediate, so starting with PMK (if it was pure) would actually give a higher yield or purer product than starting with safrole.
 
Just my opinion , i am no pharmacologist just a guy that has been taking Drugs for 25 years . I'm not even educated beyond the age of 14 but i & others believe that the MDEA thing is true .
 
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mark881 said:
Exactly. Now I see people on pills drinking alcohol all night. Circa 94, the pills were so strong, forget alcohol! The thought of consuming a beer was insanity. And everyone did 1/2 pill or 1 pill. Rarely any more unless it was a 12 hour rave.

Back then, the pills made you dance furiously, I presume amphet. Yet you could go to sleep without any benzos after taking them ok.

On the + side, physically exertion on pure MDMA of today is fairly low. You can recover over the weekend fine.
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Like this Mark especially what you said about booze , i'm down with all you say in this post mate .
 
In Australia so much has changed in the last 2 years, let alone 5, let alone 10, let alone 15.

If anything has more than a medium-quality 70mg+ MDxx base then it really is the best thing going around, aside from some but cannot reveal.
 
Im a firm believer in differing synth route = different feeling off the MDMA that is produced. And I also remember around the summer of 97/98 there was a change in pills. Less empathy, less loved up. I have occasionally had the odd pill or MDMA in the last few years that gets me in the same state but the majority of MDMA i have these days does not have the same quality.

As a side note:- there are batches of pills going around that are made in the UK at the moment that, in general people say they possess that empathy loved up quality that makes MDMA really special.
 
@Swedger; definitely agree with you on the routes part. It sucks so much people hear about the levels of MD and gobble them like crazy but a much better question is if the synth is even of decent quality!
 
mark881 said:
Exactly. Now I see people on pills drinking alcohol all night. Circa 94, the pills were so strong, forget alcohol! The thought of consuming a beer was insanity. And everyone did 1/2 pill or 1 pill. Rarely any more unless it was a 12 hour rave.

Back then, the pills made you dance furiously, I presume amphet. Yet you could go to sleep without any benzos after taking them ok.

On the + side, physically exertion on pure MDMA of today is fairly low. You can recover over the weekend fine.
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Ugh! Beer! Right. I would cringe when I saw people drinking a beer. I was like WHAT THE HELL. EWWW! Haha. Well at least there are some of us old people around that remember when things were fun. I would travel to hear people Spin yet I NEVER knew when they were on but I swear I could pick them out. Ha. Yea right. Good times :)
 
These days the way pills are made and for the MDMA that is made, I really have nothing to say or add due to the fact that I had my first encounter with MDMA in 2008 with the Paul Frank monkeys that flooded South Florida. Since then, all I have been able to locate is bullshit methylone. Now butylone is being distributed in my area....EWWW I met butylone not too long ago and the moment i put a "moonrock" of that shit in my mouth and tasted it, spit it right out and would have preferred just smoking weed.
 
i am now on 125mgs of proper Safrole MDMA lued up to fuk just like the old days PLUR<3%)

The 90s early 90 they are the old days btw

but whatever your old days were cherish them they will become your best days as you get older <3
 
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brimz said:
...i & others believe that the MDEA thing is true .
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what basis do you have for believing it to be true?

here's an mdma molecule which was synthesised using safrole as a precursor:

mdma01.jpg


here's an mdma molecule which was synthesised using an alternate route:

mdma02.jpg


what's the difference?

:\

alasdair
 
swedger77 said:
Im a firm believer in differing synth route = different feeling off the MDMA that is produced. And I also remember around the summer of 97/98 there was a change in pills. Less empathy, less loved up. I have occasionally had the odd pill or MDMA in the last few years that gets me in the same state but the majority of MDMA i have these days does not have the same quality.
Click to expand...

There's a study of MDMA methods on Erowid. Three methods were investigated; the Merck method involving safrole / methylamine produced no impurities. The other two produced significant impurities.

This I assume is in lab conditions. Illicit drug manufacturing is not exactly known for good lab conditions, cleaning up their products or having the most controlled reactions.

The "best" synthesis method for consumers, therefore, would be the one that easiest forms a pure product.

It's possible, I think, that impurities in less-than-perfect synthesis methods contribute to changes in "feeling" between now and then. Some of the impurities in the referenced study are known to be active. But if the impurities are relatively small, I wouldn't think it would be *that* different.

Personally, I assume that the biggest change in MDMA between then and now is: A) Pill strength, as I have heard 1990s MDMA was very strong, and B) the huge amount of of "fake MDMA" going around, as well as perhaps some flat out poor quality synths that go beyond small impurities.

Methylone, the most numerous fake MDMA product of the moment, for instance goes quite well with beer, whereas on MDMA and MDA (and, so not to not bash all RCs, 6-APB for sure) such a thing is unthinkable. (For the people wondering why people might drink on "MDMA" now. :) )

There are some things popping up on ecstasydata that we have no idea what they do (eg, "MDMA Methylene homolog", what the fuck?). As ecstasydata is a simple library match type GC/MS I doubt they will catch every impurity in the world, and even with what they got there's some nice ones. I liked the pill that was mostly MDP2P (very bad synthesis obviously), but at least that's known. The library match in one MDMA pill for a large amount of 2,2,3,4-tetramethyl-5-(3,4-methylenedioxy)phenyloxazolidine (what the hell is that?) along with MDBZ was even more bizarre. The atomoxetine sold as MDMA made me WTF.
 
If you've been taking mdma for some time, you learn what to expect, and regardless of all the stuff about down-tuning and so on, the experience will just no longer be so wow!
Anyway that's all part of getting older. Things are never the same.
 
I respect the opinions of all the old school ravers, but Alasdairm is right. MDMA is MDMA. Regardless of synthesis route. I think if anything there should be an abundance of higher quality product out there because of population increase, technology, and demand. Use a test kit so you can be sure you product is MDMA and not bk-MDMA.

The same could be said about early 90s dance music. I personally find it more enjoyable over modern dance music. That doesn't stop both eras of music from being music though now does it?

Edit : A counter point to my initial thought on the abundance of high quality MDMA is that with the technology advancement, population increase, and demand comes people trying to profit by mislabeling their product. Anybody, even your grandmothers, could obtain bk-MDMA, or any drug that has a similar effect profile, and market them as ecstasy, Molly, or whatever slang term is used for MDMA. Knowledge is power folks, let us never forget.
 
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