Lack of HCG or Clomid

Animal Mother

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Messages
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Suppose that we were going to do a cycle

Our cycle would be Test enthanate. Just that unless we find some Deca here soon lol

Anyways, if we couldn't find any HCG or clomid, Do you believe that it would be safe to come off with supplements?
I was thinking 20,000 IU D3 and 6 grams a day of D-aspartic acid. What do you think would be a good supp for blocking estrogen?
 
U dont want to run it without an anti e on hand mate u may get sides while on cycle, i am going to run a 10 week cycle of lixus labs nandrotest shortly (200mg test e, 200mg deca per ml) to get myself back into training been out for a year with a back injury so using the deca to lubricate my joints, it is only a low dose cycle of 400mg (1ml) per week but i will have nolva, clomid, hcg and an anti-hairloss drug as well, gna do it, do it right bro ;)
 
Suppose that we were going to do a cycle

Our cycle would be Test enthanate. Just that unless we find some Deca here soon lol

Anyways, if we couldn't find any HCG or clomid, Do you believe that it would be safe to come off with supplements?
I was thinking 20,000 IU D3 and 6 grams a day of D-aspartic acid. What do you think would be a good supp for blocking estrogen?

Taper off....
 
U dont want to run it without an anti e on hand mate u may get sides while on cycle, i am going to run a 10 week cycle of lixus labs nandrotest shortly (200mg test e, 200mg deca per ml) to get myself back into training been out for a year with a back injury so using the deca to lubricate my joints, it is only a low dose cycle of 400mg (1ml) per week but i will have nolva, clomid, hcg and an anti-hairloss drug as well, gna do it, do it right bro ;)

I thought it was prudent to run test at a higher ratio to Deca.. Trouble with Test/Deca blend is you can't separate em, ideally it might be best to run Test 2 weeks longer than Deca, then 2 weeks after last pin of Test start PCT of nolva + clomid.....

What's the anti-hair loss compound..? you don't really want to be adding 5-alpha reductase inhibitors on cycle, inhibiting DHT formation could interfere with strength and muscle mass...
 
Suppose that we were going to do a cycle

Our cycle would be Test enthanate. Just that unless we find some Deca here soon lol

Anyways, if we couldn't find any HCG or clomid, Do you believe that it would be safe to come off with supplements?
I was thinking 20,000 IU D3 and 6 grams a day of D-aspartic acid. What do you think would be a good supp for blocking estrogen?

For PCT, Clomid and Nolvadex is a must. If you can't get any, look harder because you need both to come off properly.
 
Yeah, I'm looking hard. All of these guys are just so willing to fuck up their hormones for life, that they're all like "Clomid? U don't need that, bro, just more steroids"
 
Nolva is a first choice, clomid has sides like depression and shit, If you don't know what AI's are (Aromatise Inhibitors) you should look into that because if you end up with gyno you will need 1, aromasin is best, HCG keeps your nuts hanging while on cycle because believe me they'll shrink. More to the point mate... why do you want Deca ? If this is your 1st cycle you should be running test alone to see how u react, then 2nd cycle u can add another compound, this way u will learn what sides u get from what compounds and how to counteract them, give me some stats and your goals and I can help you ;)
 
Nolva is a first choice, clomid has sides like depression and shit, If you don't know what AI's are (Aromatise Inhibitors) you should look into that because if you end up with gyno you will need 1, aromasin is best, HCG keeps your nuts hanging while on cycle because believe me they'll shrink. More to the point mate... why do you want Deca ? If this is your 1st cycle you should be running test alone to see how u react, then 2nd cycle u can add another compound, this way u will learn what sides u get from what compounds and how to counteract them, give me some stats and your goals and I can help you ;)

Howdy,
It's not my first cycle. I've run test and deca before, and know what I can do with it. I DO NOT want to run a cycle incorrectly, and mess up my hormones. I did it before, and I completely regret it. I was an emotional estrogen wreck. I've managed to get my T back on track, and feel great nowadays. I won't run a cycle without clomid, so I'm just sitting on this Test
 
Plenty of research chem sites offer legit liquid Clomid.

Wow. That was really helpful, thanks. I did not know that.


Ok. Cool. Next question: How important would you say HCG is? What if I could find an aromataze inhibitor and clomid, but still no HCG?
 
Successful cycles have been run for years without hcg. Some members here don't use or even put into their recommendation the use of hcg as it can have other effects on the hpta which will need recovering from. Sounds like an aesthetic thing to make your nuts look pretty that's about it.
 
Wow. That was really helpful, thanks. I did not know that.


Ok. Cool. Next question: How important would you say HCG is? What if I could find an aromataze inhibitor and clomid, but still no HCG?

When it comes to pharmacology, more is not necessarily better.

As for hCG, I don't understand why anyone would want to create another level of suppression in their HPTA? There is really no use for hCG, it desensitizes leydig cells in your testes to Leutinizing hormone so that when you eventually cease using hCG it takes a while for your testes to become sensitive to your own body's natural LH, thus prolonging your recovery. The use of hCG in males is limited to increasing fertility in HRT such that guys have enough viable sperm for their partners to conceive. When you are "shut down" your testes actually become more sensitive to LH due to receptor up-regulation. All that hCG will do is prolong your recovery.

I'd rather taper off and for this reason I wouldn't bother with SERMS as aromatase inhibitors like anastrazole are a better accompaniment to this protocol. Adding more PCT drugs into the mix just means more poly-pharmacy and more side effects.

With regard to hCG, receptor down regulation is just a reality for receptor mediated drug therapy. While the literature on this particular topic is scarce I have seen one showing the effects in humans as well as rats, albeit the human study was with large dosages greater than 1000iu. Regardless, while you may be able to safely administer therapeutic doses of hCG without inducing primary hypogonadism, why would you? LH is not the problem when it comes to coming off cycle, LH concentrations rise simultaneously with a fall in serum androgen levels and it is a myth that all exogenous testosterone must clear your system before your HPTA restarts. Your body cannot tell the difference between endogenous and exogenous testosterone.

So if hCG mimics LH yet serum LH rises with falling androgen concentrations anyway, whats the point in administering it? Having said that it is important to note that when I say androgens I mean testosterone. Other AAS which have different binding affinities for the androgen receptor may still be suppressing LH production in spite of negligible levels of circulating testosterone. For this reason I have seen it been recommended that a low dose test bridge (100mg/ week) be used before the taper in order to allow time for other AAS to clear your system. The bridge should be equal to at least 4x the longest half life of any co-administered androgens/anabolics.
GnRH is released from the hypothalamus which also senses sex hormone levels. GnRH acts to stimulate the release of FSH and LH from the pituitary.
There is no reason why a taper would not work and actually takes no longer than a conventional PCT in the protocol I've previously outlined. Further to this, because leydig cells are not permanently damaged, not keeping them stimulated while on cycle isn't really going to affect you so long as you taper off. The taper gives your testes time to resume normal response to LH as you are not all of a sudden dropping testosterone cold turkey. You have enough exogenous testosterone in your system to maintain sexual function and hold onto gains but not enough to suppress your natural LH production and compromise testicular function.

You have to stand back a bit and look at the big picture, ultimately a PCT is about recovering as quickly as possible and with the least side effects as possible. A test taper allows you to do this. Sure you can take hCG here and there and then SERMs to offset leydig cell desensitization and then time hCG to mimic LH secretion as best you can, then deal with the added sides from nolva clomid, hCG etc. But you wan't your body to achieve homeostasis, I don't see how throwing more drugs into the mix all the while lining your dealer's pockets is going to be the easiest way of doing this. I guess its up to the individual and what they feel is the best option for them.

1. Smals AG et al.Tamoxifen suppresses gonadotropin-induced 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone accumulation in normal men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1980 51(5): 1026-9.

2. Veldhuis JD et al. Dynamic testosterone responses to near-physiological LH pulses are determined by the time pattern of prior intravenous LH infusion. Endo and metab 2012 303(6): 720-728.

3. Mores N et al. Activation of LH receptors expressed in GnRH neurons stimulates cyclic AMP production and inhibits pulsatile neuropeptide release. Endocrinology 1996 137(12): 5731-4.
 
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