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Syrian civil war thread

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Stop resisting!
Is it so hard for a world leader to say, "I misspoke"?

Off-the-Cuff Obama Line Put U.S. in Bind on Syria

WASHINGTON — Confronted with evidence that chemical weapons have been used in Syria, President Obama now finds himself in a geopolitical box, his credibility at stake with frustratingly few good options.

The origins of this dilemma can be traced in large part to a weekend last August, when alarming intelligence reports suggested the besieged Syrian government might be preparing to use chemical weapons. After months of keeping a distance from the conflict, Mr. Obama felt he had to become more directly engaged.

In a frenetic series of meetings, the White House devised a 48-hour plan to deter President Bashar al-Assad of Syria by using intermediaries like Russia and Iran to send a message that one official summarized as, “Are you crazy?” But when Mr. Obama emerged to issue the public version of the warning, he went further than many aides realized he would.

Moving or using large quantities of chemical weapons would cross a “red line” and “change my calculus,” the president declared in response to a question at a news conference, to the surprise of some of the advisers who had attended the weekend meetings and wondered where the “red line” came from. With such an evocative phrase, the president had defined his policy in a way some advisers wish they could take back.

“The idea was to put a chill into the Assad regime without actually trapping the president into any predetermined action,” said one senior official, who, like others, discussed the internal debate on the condition of anonymity. But “what the president said in August was unscripted,” another official said. Mr. Obama was thinking of a chemical attack that would cause mass fatalities, not relatively small-scale episodes like those now being investigated, except the “nuance got completely dropped.”

As a result, the president seems to be moving closer to providing lethal assistance to the Syrian rebels, even though he rejected such a policy just months ago. American officials have even discussed with European allies the prospect of airstrikes to take out Syrian air defenses, airplanes and missile delivery systems, if government use of chemical weapons is confirmed.

An Israeli airstrike in Syria on Thursday, apparently targeting advanced missiles bound for the Shiite Lebanese militant group Hezbollah, highlighted the volatile situation. With Syrians already dying by the thousands from conventional weapons, Mr. Obama now confronts the most urgent foreign policy issue of his second term, one in which he must weigh humanitarian impulses against the risk to American lives. After about two years of ineffectual diplomacy, whether or how he chooses to follow through on his warning about chemical weapons could shape his remaining time in office.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/w...l-weapons-puts-him-in-tough-spot.html?hp&_r=0
 
Though I generally support Obama, I thought (and still think) his waffling on the issue after the "red line" statement was idiotic. I can absolutely understand why he's hesitant: he doesn't want to aspire to Dubya's "shoot first, ask questions later" approach that was so effective at raking him and his own party over coals for most of his Presidency. With that in mind, he shouldn't have said it at all; unscripted or not, he should've seen how people would interpret a statement like that at home and abroad, regardless of what he really meant.
 
It shouldn't put him in a bind because the evidence for chem weapons use is wafer thin. The only ones coming out and saying it was "proof" were douchebag pawns like William Hague in the UK for example, politicians who'll do anything to please their masters. Traces in soil and some shody youtube video is not going to cut it, especially when the samples have not been defined in terms of who took them, and who's had them prior to intelligence agencies getting them. Could easily be a fabrication.
 
What will more than likely force the U.S. into war than anything else, is Israel denying Syria's sovereignty by launching missile strikes into Syria.
 
What will more than likely force the U.S. into war than anything else, is Israel denying Syria's sovereignty by launching missile strikes into Syria.

I don't immediately see why that would commit us to belligerence. Israel has fought several wars on its own.
 
Much more substantial than the seasonal brainfart from "Obummer." ;p

He's presently getting reamed by conservatives for allowing the US to look weak, and I can't say I entirely blame them. It's significantly harder to make a credible threat after you've shown that you're unwilling to follow through on your prior threats.

One of the commenters on that article makes a good point:

If President Obama had been paying attention, he would have learned these lessons long ago. Peace is far more reliably obtained by adopting a position of strength than by displaying an enlightened attitude toward one's enemies.
 
^Ah yeah, I was mostly just fucking with you anyway. Who knows what'll happen, but I have a feeling that an extremely limited engagement is the worst that will happen.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22425058

"

A leading United Nations investigator says she is 'stupefied' by the testimony from victims of the Syrian conflict that rebels have used nerve agent sarin.

Carla Del Ponte told Swiss TV there were "strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof".

She said her panel had not yet seen evidence of government forces using chemical weapons."

===

So that "varying degrees of confidence" by the UK and US governments was, well, bullshit. "Intelligence reports" and "varying degrees of confidence" = bullshit. I'd like to know who in the intelligence community is responsible for those initial claims. Probably the same group of guys who thought Saddam had WMD's. ¬_¬
 
UN accuses Syrian rebels of carrying out sarin gas attacks which had been blamed on Assad's troops

A senior United Nations official has claimed that Syrian rebels may have used chemical weapons against government forces.

Carla Del Ponte said evidence from casualties and medical staff indicated that rebel forces in the civil war had used the deadly nerve agent sarin.

‘Our investigators have been in neighbouring countries interviewing victims, doctors and field hospitals, and there are strong, concrete suspicions, but not yet incontrovertible proof, of the use of sarin gas,’ said Del Ponte in an interview with Swiss-Italian television.

‘This was use on the part of the opposition, the rebels, not by the government authorities.’

Last night, the UN commission looking into allegations of war crimes in Syria tried to row back on the comments by its human rights investigator, pointing out that conclusive evidence had not been discovered.

However, the White House said it was likely that President Bashar al-Assad’s regime, not the rebels, were behind any chemical weapons use.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tacks-blamed-Assads-troops.html#ixzz2Scn140qz
 
Who are we to trust? The US government and it's prior intelligence track record, or an independant body? Hmmmm so tough ¬_¬
 
However, the White House said it was likely that President Bashar al-Assad’s regime, not the rebels, were behind any chemical weapons use.

How embarrassing would that be? Discovering the group you're arming used chemical weapons against it's own people.

NSFW:
Saddam-Hussein.jpg
 
These people are morons, they want to start another war...

They can't be morons because it obviously was their intention from the very beginning. The morons are the public for swallowing this continuing episode of middle eastern bullshit. Have people forgotten libya already? Send in MI6/CIA, stir shit up, declare the need for international involvement, engage the war machine... rinse and repeat. The major difference with syria is it has the potential to become a much wider conflict.
 
How embarrassing would that be? Discovering the group you're arming used chemical weapons against it's own people.

NSFW:
Saddam-Hussein.jpg
its almost like theres lessons to be learned from previous middle east clusterfucks

i say we arm the islamic fundamentalists and see what happens!
 
Another great example of the media broadcasting a fairy tale.

Hopefully this does not escalate.
 
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