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NMDA antagonists for tolerance (part 2)

So you're suggesting that long-term amphetamine use has utility against depression?

Show me what you've 'read up on' -- because this sounds like a grandiose delusion.
 
I believe he is talking about this.

I'm not quite sure how he's made the jump from "it has an antidepressant effect" to "it has a non-diminishing acute mood elevating effect" though.
 
MeDieViL said:
Back on DXM for tolerance, flavonoids are cool but seems like for me only nmda antagonists are truly effective.

When you stop dxm for example tolerance will go up like if you never used dxm.

Ive allways retained the rewarding effects of stims completely.
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Tolerance may go up for stims and opiates (I haven't used it for this) but when I used DXM to knock my tolerance to benzos down, it was permanent. I haven't used any DXM in like a year and a half and I'm still on 20mg of Valium, down from the 60mg that I was on when I crossed over from 4mg a day of Klonopin.

I'm about to start another Delsym regimen though to try to kick the stuff completely. I'm guessing I will probably need to stay on it for at least 2 months after hitting zero to avoid withdrawal... Once withdrawal sets in, the adrenergic properties of DXM will make the withdrawals hit hell proportions.

The only thing that sucks is that I take 50mg of trazodone at night to sleep and I won't be able to take it with DXM.
 
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Nobody experienced with DXM regiment for tramadol physical dependance?
 
There are posts about it in the archived thread... Seems effective but keep the dose low to avoid any serotonin interactions.
 
MagickalKat777 said:
There are posts about it in the archived thread... Seems effective but keep the dose low to avoid any serotonin interactions.
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Yes and it was me who spoke about that, but im' not really sure this can be down without serious bad effects^^ That's why I asked for more report :) This is strange because at low dose I think that serotonin effet of DXM are prevalent (1 plateau), with little NMDA antagonist effects. And that can be fucking problematic in the case of tramadol, a shitty compound to make combo with...
 
It's a bit off the topic but does anyone know what's up with Wesley? He has disappeared :O
 
I didnt have a working laptop for ages, also im focussing more on building a carier rather then waste too much time on online fora, i will be contributing again tough.

Tussmann said:
So you're suggesting that long-term amphetamine use has utility against depression?

Show me what you've 'read up on' -- because this sounds like a grandiose delusion.
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Yes it has when used with dxm or memantine combined with a one or 2 day weekly break, the evidence for this is anecdotal and limited tough, long term studys can provide answers.

Hopefully one day i can conduct studys behind my ideas.
 
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I'm actually keeping a log of a taper off of 20mg of diazepam using Delsym... I have actually found that LOWER consistent doses of Delsym are more effective than higher doses. I have experimented from the 3mL to the the 15mL twice a day range and I find 3-5mL (with the average daily being 4mL twice a day currently) to be the sweet spot.

This was after the first week that I started messing with dosages.

Higher dosages actually add side effects and increase certain withdrawal symptoms.

I started at 20mg plus a handle of everclear every 2-3 days and a pack of cigarettes a day on September 8th when I initiated Delsym without modifying behavior. Started at 5mL twice a day. By September 10th, nicotine was largely ineffective and elicited a reaction not unlike what Chantix did (wanted to smoke but didn't get anything from the nicotine and became grumpy). I stopped smoking entirely on the 12th and that's when my alcohol cravings stopped. Bumped the Delsym 7.5mL that day and then the full 10mL on the 13th.

Taper started on the 14th. Alcohol and nicotine detox is going on so I was in hell until the 17th. Dose cut: 2.5mg
10mL is held until the 18th when withdrawal symptoms seemed to increase (most likely alcohol) so the dose is bumped to 12.5mL through the 23rd. Significant side effects are noted including diarrhea, tachycardia, general feeling of mild intoxication, mental slowness.
In light of this, the Delsym is dropped to 10mL twice a day on the 24th.
Next dose cut is the 29th: 1.25mg - Delsym is cut to 7.5mL on the 6th of October. Then 6mL on the 8th, 5mL on the 9th, 4mL on the 10th. All side effects benzo or otherwise are markedly diminished.
Next dose cut on the 13th: 1.25mg - Delsym maintained at 4mL with no issues until the 18th when the dose is bumped back to 5mL which continues until the 22nd when the dose is cut to 3mL. This is held until the 24th when the dose is increased back to 4mL.
Next dose cut on the 27th: 2.5mg - Delsym has been maintained at 5mL during the day, 6mL for the night dose.

Total dose reduction since 9/14: 7.5mg

Previous to this, I was actually in tolerance withdrawal for the last year and a half if not longer and I had made attempts to cut even 1.25mg without success. There was also an attempt to detox at an inpatient facility where I was weaned off using Tranxene and Depakote - total stay 5 days. Ended up in the ER on the 10th day presenting with signs of seizures and tachycardia/arrhythmia. They ran an ECG, it came back inconclusive so a second was run, heart was fine, IV Ativan, discharged and reinstated on 20mg of Valium.

Anyway, I know this is a scrambled account and I apologize for that. I was halfway through it before I thought "gee, I can do this a different way" but its just for reference of the process.

In this case, I would say that it would be a good idea to test varying dosages to find your optimal level. Not only does it minimize the amount of side effects, it saves you a lot of money (this stuff is not cheap even in bulk!), and it lowers any possibility for neurotoxicity and drug interactions.

Also noted - I have not have a nicotine or alcohol craving since the 22nd of September. I'm an alcoholic with no question in my mind and I am aware of the alcohol in the house and I haven't even thought about it unless the roommate made a remark about how amazing it is that I haven't been drinking. Previously, I wouldn't last a week without at least a craving and I would have caved and drank by the second week and been right back to 2-3 day binges within another week. No other drug cravings have come along either. Previous attempts at getting off of benzos have always resulted in cravings for any drug that I could get my hands on.

Fantastic stuff - my goal to get off of Valium by January 5th may actually go sooner than expected, I'm going to speed my taper up by making a weekly dose cut of 1.25mg and see how that goes and then increase that to 2.5mg should all continue to go well which I believe it will.
 
napoleonbonaparta said:
Consider the benzos. If AMPA and NDMA antagonists inhibit learned, functional and other forms of tolerance, does that mean that these antagonists prevent downregulation of gaba receptor?
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You should look at the barbiturates. They are VERY strong AMPA antagonists. Yet tolerance to any barbiturate develops very quickly, usually within a few days.

Antagonists at AMPA/NMDA do not prevent downregulation of GABA receptors, particularly GABA-A ligand gated receptors. GABA-B receptors may be a different story, but then how does tolerance to alcohol develop since it's a very strong GABA-B agonist and is also a NMDA antagonist? Simple - it's also a GABA-A type agonist, just like benzos and barbs, and tolerance to GABA-A agonists will develop regardless of AMPA or NMDA receptor antagonism.
 
^ Well that explains why phenobarbital is so successful at getting people off of benzodiazepines.

I haven't messed with AMPA because the main AMPA antagonist that I know of is topiramate and I don't need to be made dumb.

I know better than to mess with phenobarbital just from reading which is why I have never even attempted it with my benzo taper.

Alcohol is a poor example of an NMDA antagonist though because it only antagonizes for a short period of time before it actually increases glutamate levels. Not to mention that the pharmacological profile of alcohol leads to a whole range of receptors that could be responsible for tolerance - that and the body recognizing it as the universal toxin that it is and doing its best to protect itself, for example, by ramping up alcohol enzymes in the liver.
 
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Hi, is anyone here still on memantine? How are you doing? I,m taking memantine for prevent tolerance from ritalin. It works for 3 months, then i have to stop memantine for a week, then restart memantine a low dose and titrate slowly again. Anyone could share your memantine experiences?
 
Does anyone understand the mechanism via which NMDA antagonists can *increase* anxiety? This has been my experience on all to date, even something as benign as magnesium.
 
I don't think it was Nocebo, but regardless that doesn't account for Memantine, which made my anxiety insanely bad.
 
doctordog, do you have a past history of benzos or barbs?

I have a similar reaction to magnesium and I've heard it reported a lot on the benzo buddies forums.

Benzodiazepines themselves can cause paradoxical reactions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradoxical_reaction) but it seems that after stopping the benzos, people still suffer from paradoxical reactions to other substances that are supposed to "calm" them.
 
I was on clonazepam for about 6 months, though the dose was relatively low (0.5mg at night).. I've always had paradoxical reactions to benzos though and think the clonazepam was making me worse the whole time, but it was being masked by another drug.
 
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