Harm Reduction 1, 4 Butanediol Questions

[ShaunG]

It is my understanding that this drug metabolizes into GHB and is currently legal in the US. Is it more toxic than GHB? I know it takes about half a GHB dose. Are the above statements correct and is there anything else I should be aware of about this drug?

Also, it should be noted that I have take .5mg to 1mg per day of Xanax and 10mg of Vicodin as prescribed. I have a tolerance to both and do not really feel them when I take them. Xanax helps me sleep and Vicodin works in the morning for my lower back but I do not feel any narcotic effect from either of these. Is it safe to dose 1,4 and still take my normal doses of the other 2 drugs? Thanks for any feedback.

 

[sekio]

1,4-BDO is actually about 80% of the strength of GHB, so you'd need about the same amount. Density is 1.0g/ml.

It's no more toxic than GHB is, but it has a slower onset.

I would be very careful combining GHB/prodrugs and other depressants, they can have a potentiating effect.

 

[ShaunG]

1,4-BDO is actually about 80% of the strength of GHB, so you'd need about the same amount. Density is 1.0g/ml.

It's no more toxic than GHB is, but it has a slower onset.

I would be very careful combining GHB/prodrugs and other depressants, they can have a potentiating effect.

Ya, I would not really be combining. I just meant like take my Vics in the morning and I can probably skip my Xanax dose since the 1,4 will do some work on my GABAs and I will be able to sleep. Is it legal to purchase in the US as of right now? I read that it was somewhere. If it has the same toxicity and is 80% the strength, then I see it as a better alternative. I read that it is more euphoric as well. Is this possible since its metabolizing into the same drug anyways? It seems like this statement would not be true, but I have never tried it.

 

[sekio]

We don't discuss the legality of drug sourcing here. But as far as i know it's not legal for purchase if you intend to consume it.

Personally I don't think there's any difference between the effects of GHB and BDO, except that BDO takes a little longer to onset and is a little less potent. Almost all of a dose of BDO is metabolised into GHB, anyway.

GBL, gamma-butyrolactone, is another GHB prodrug, that has a faster onset & the "source material" if you want to "manufacture" GHB. (React GBL with sodium hydroxide in water, it breaks apart to yield the sodium salt of GHB).

 

[ShaunG]

Thanks for the info.

Do you think it would be okay if I don't take the Xanax dose that day? This is what I do when I drink. Will the 2 years of built up Xanax in my system (i know i gotta taper) potentiate my dose in any way? I figured it would actually give me more of a tolerance like it does with alcohol as long as I don't dose that day. I keep reading about people going into convulsions (likely OD dose levels) and want to make sure that the presence of Xanax or lack there of would make a difference or change the experience.

 

[sekio]

Skipping your xanax would be ok. Just dose low to start with BDO, try maybe 1 gram. And make sure you have a sitter around.

It's also good to write "GHB" on your arm, and your dose, in washable marker if you're going to be taking it and going out - so if you OD and fall into an unrousable power nap, the paramedics will know what's up.

see also, http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/14b/

 

[tricomb]

Alprazolam does not really build up in your system the way longer acting benzodiazepines such as diazepam, flurazepam, clonazepam, etc do. It's nowhere near as lipid/fat soluble as diazepam is, which is probably the best choice for benzodiazepine accumulation in your system over time, allowing for more forgiving inter-dose withdrawals. I myself, with decades of Xanax use, am finally ridding myself of this evil by tapering with diazepam. But this thread isn't about me, so back to you, I just wanted you to know that I have EXTENSIVE experience with xanax/benzos:

I don't think you'll have much, if any, Xanax in your system. If you're highly benzodiazepine dependent, you shouldn't be messing with this shit to begin with, your GABAa subunit's been fucked for the last two years, now you wanna start raping the GABAb subunit. Recipe for disaster. May not be worth it in the end, especially if you're this concerned about going without your alprazolam (a totally/completely legitimate concern).

$0.02

 

[xxxyyy]

from personal experience i can say that the GABAb unit is a lot less forgiving about abuse than the GABAa unit is and she's already a vengeful bitch of the highest order.

 

[ShaunG]

I'm not concerned but just wanted info on having both in your system for the sake of harm reduction (i guess its a concern). I'm not sure if I would say that I am highly dependent on Xanax, but I am definitely dependent. I use low dose Xanax for general anxiety and sleep. I do get panic attacks, but not often. I skip my dose when I drink all the time, so I figured it would be about the same. I don't plan on making a habit of G at all tbh. I just do not see it very often and have an opportunity to try it. I obviously will not if it will put me in any dangerous situation if dosed properly and used responsibly. I just wanted to make sure it would pretty much be like drinking if I skipped the dose.

I know the half life on Xanax is short and it doesn't build up too much, but still...25% is left every day for 2 years....there is a build up there. Of course its nothing like K-pins or Valium, but its there. The lesser build up is actually why I prefer the low dose Xanax over the other two. I will use Valium to taper when I get as low as I can go on Xanax. I only use .25-.75mg per day on average. My brother tapered successfully from about 4-6mg per day with Valium and he abused the fuck out of his meds. I never abuse Xanax as I fear the consequences. I realize 1,4 works on GABAs too, but just wanted to try it. Thanks for the feedback though. I'll start real low if I proceed.

PS - The xanax taper is coming this year too. I need off the Vics first which I am on my way down now.

 

[tricomb]

I seriously doubt that any alprazolam has accumulated man, even when I was taking triple digit alprazolam doses every single day, it didn't accumulate. I don't think that alprazolam CAN accumulate, and I certainly wouldn't risk my life, there's no way I could be convinced or rest assured that there's any xanax whatsoever built up in my system.

$0.02, take it or leave it.

 

[Skeeef]

I would have to say that it is more toxic than GHB but probably less so than alcohol. It is metabolized into an aldehyde before being metabolized into GHB, similar to how alcohol is metabolized, the alcohol aldehyde metabolite is what causes most of its damage. It's hard to say the effects of 1,4-BDO itself, it is a known irritant so I would still say that its most likely more harmful than GHB. Also it IS schedule 1 in some states so check the law in your state, and if you are caught with it and they figured out what it is they could easily charge you with an analogue of a schedule 1 substance. Honestly its not really worth doing or worth the risk.

Source-Chemist/experience.

 

[bloodshed344]

I seriously doubt that any alprazolam has accumulated man, even when I was taking triple digit alprazolam doses every single day, it didn't accumulate. I don't think that alprazolam CAN accumulate, and I certainly wouldn't risk my life, there's no way I could be convinced or rest assured that there's any xanax whatsoever built up in my system.

$0.02, take it or leave it.

If you were taking that much everyday, or even taking Xanax everyday you couldn't really judge. But I don't claim to be a master of metabolism.