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MDMA abuse/ Long term comedown - the Cognitive aspect
- Thread starter dpd_mnk92
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I certainly notice what I call 'cognitive scrambling' the day after consuming tested MDMA at doses ranging from 100-150mg. In fact, this is usually the only slightly negative effect I experience on the alledged 'comedown.' I actually usually more empathetic and content with life, but less tuned into the world. This does not usually last longer than 1 day, 2 at the most. I'm unsure about the effects of MDMA on chronic cognitive functioning and, in fact, the role of serotonin in cognitive function is not that clear. Folley posted a good journal because it is one of the first to amend the evident flaws in previous research. In this sense, it is more important than previous studies because it is quite simply more controlled. However, the area is evidently lacking any conclusive effects on cognition. Personally, I believe MDMA could, when taken frequently at increasingly high doses, alter cognitive performance - its just feels intuitive from my personal experiences.
futura2012
Bluelighter
In many of the studies I have read it seems in many cases IQ is unaffected by MDMA abuse. From a personal observation it would seem my IQ is intact yet I suffer from many other issues. I certainly notice a general slowness in digesting information, memory and overall awarness.
Now I have been on BL for a while and read many cases of long term comedowns I think things can varie a lot. Some users seem to be just suffering from anxiety symptoms and a lot of their problems clear up then there are others like myself who have abused on a more long term basis and there is definitely elements of recovery that are very long term. I dont think I will recover 100% but I think over time life will become more bearable or at least I hope
dpd_mnk92
Bluelighter
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Yes, the study is interesting in that it attempts to control these variables. The downside of that of course is that their sample size automatically becomes tiny (appx. 100 participants, half e-users, half sober ravers) - we have no idea how much MD this little sample of 50 people have gone through in their lifetimes . Given that cognitive problems are FAR LESS common then emotional problems, and that chances are most of the E-users in the study are not heavy abusers, the averaged out result was always bound to be close to the sober group. Afterall, this is not a study about people who have abused the drug - this is just a mystery crowd of 50 e-taking party goers.
I could probably think of about 50 people out of my friends who have used e at a rave multiple times. Apart from me, I know just one other person that has complained about some mild memory problems following e abuse. The study was never going to show much, yet it still show a small difference. This study, does not intend to, and indeed does not, accurately capture the cognitive effects of heavy ecstasy abuse, IMO.
dpd_mnk92
Bluelighter
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That is interesting. I guess an IQ test can only measure so much. Either way, I'm not particularly concerned about my IQ, which is just an operationalised measure of intelligence. I think anecdotal accounts of cognitive problems really are invaluable! The cognitive problems you described are very similar to mine - what good is an intelligence test if it doesn't measure these fundamental aspects of intelligence! haha.
Now I have been on BL for a while and read many cases of long term comedowns I think things can varie a lot. Some users seem to be just suffering from anxiety symptoms and a lot of their problems clear up then there are others like myself who have abused on a more long term basis and there is definitely elements of recovery that are very long term. I dont think I will recover 100% but I think over time life will become more bearable or at least I hope
I personally think I fall into the second group based on the stupid amount I did and the range of symptoms I've got. Being realistic, based on the amount I've recovered so far in the first 4 months (with the initial stages, being the quickest phase of the recovery), I would be over the moon if I ended up at around 90-95% of what I was somewhere down the line. The old me seems like a distant memory now. I guess it's about picking up the pieces and making the new me a better person in as many possible ways. Gotta accept these new problems as a part of life now, and if they start fading over time, that's a bonus! Of course optimism/ positivity is an essential part of recovery... but I think acceptance is just as important.
Good luck with your recovery! I'm sure we will both get closer to where we want to be with enough time
xxxyakinikuxxx
Bluelighter
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I've noticed a few different cognitive issues since starting this comedown. (On a side note, I'm starting to wonder if 'comedown' is even the right word for this) The first thing I noticed, after the crippling anxiety and depression began to abate, was that I couldn't really picture things clearly in my mind's eye. Like if someone said picture someone peeling a banana I literally couldn't do it.
My spelling has also suffered immensely from this. Ironically, the more I try to focus on doing something the more confusing it becomes. If I just write on autopilot I will spell most words correctly and be able to form grammatically correct sentences but if I actually think about how to spell a word I often become confused.
Another thing I have noticed is that it seems like all my thoughts, emotions, and memories have become watered down and distant. For example things I did yesterday seem as if they were done weeks or months ago. I still am able to remember many things but it's as if I have to retrieve everything through a dense fog and when I finally do its not a clear picture but more like a rough outline. It's really frustrating because I used to have such a visceral response to the people, places, and things around me.
Basically I feel like I'm 70 years old and I just turned 30.
I really hope the clarity of life returns little by little because it blows feeling like I can't learn new things/remember the old.
My spelling has also suffered immensely from this. Ironically, the more I try to focus on doing something the more confusing it becomes. If I just write on autopilot I will spell most words correctly and be able to form grammatically correct sentences but if I actually think about how to spell a word I often become confused.
Another thing I have noticed is that it seems like all my thoughts, emotions, and memories have become watered down and distant. For example things I did yesterday seem as if they were done weeks or months ago. I still am able to remember many things but it's as if I have to retrieve everything through a dense fog and when I finally do its not a clear picture but more like a rough outline. It's really frustrating because I used to have such a visceral response to the people, places, and things around me.
Basically I feel like I'm 70 years old and I just turned 30.
I really hope the clarity of life returns little by little because it blows feeling like I can't learn new things/remember the old.
dpd_mnk92
Bluelighter
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Wow - that's an excellent and very accurate description of 'the fog'. You've explained it far better and in much more depth than I managed in the original post. There's nothing you've said there that I can't relate to... a lot of holy shit moments as I read through your response.
The only hope I have comes from the fact that there has been definite improvement, however minimal, over the past 4 months. Exercise seems to repair cognitive damage and temporarily alleviate some of these symptoms as well, so just gonna keep it up along w/ a healthy diet. Cognitive problems are the hardest for me to come to terms with, even more so than emotional numbness and sexual dysfunction. Really hope it gets better for both us!
NeckHudson
Greenlighter
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I did an extremely large amount of E from 2009- 2011. It was sick. then I started doing heroin so I couldn't tell you if I had ill effects or not.
thumbellina
Greenlighter
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- Apr 16, 2013
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This is exactly how I feel as well. I think a lot of it is perpetuated by underlying anxiety. When you are trying to do something it's kind of like a watched pot doesn't boil(or takes foreevverrr). I was feeling fairly clear yesterday but lately the thought of driving scares me, like what if I can't remember how to get there, or I forget to stop at a stop sign and run someone over! aahhh. I drove to a friends house last night and my mind felt dumb, I live in the city I grew up and I had a hard time making connections about how to get to a place I've been numerous times. I tried to remain calm and tell myself I knew where I was going and to relax. The more pressure that is on me to perform the harder it is to think. I just try and remind myself to relax and it comes easier.
pmz
Bluelighter
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I do agree, Im having the same issue with this comedown as well. 7 weeks ago is the last time I did the MDMA. Ive felt horrible anxiety and great inability to do/process things as I have before then. Slowly anxiety is reducing. Yet I do not feel like I am all there. This thread is interesting and lets keep up with the progress we all make over the next few weeks or months. I think with a good attitude going forward and support by friends and family it will be easy to overcome the symptoms we are experiencing. Last night I came clean to my parents about why I have been having these anxiety attacks. They were extremely supportive and understanding which took a huge weight off my shoulders and I can absolutely say it alleviated a lot of anxiety.
How have some of you dealt with family/relationships over this?
How have some of you dealt with family/relationships over this?
dpd_mnk92
Bluelighter
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Coming clean is an important part of ones recovery as it does relieve a lot of anxiety - this is tough to deal with on ur own. It does depend on the severity of your symptoms, of course, but generally I think this is the right thing to do. I have told my parents and as in your case, they have been very nice and supportive. My mother is understandably quite worried though as I am quite different to the person I was before, which I feel quite guilty about - the situation has clearly made her more anxious. Keep us updated on how you get on in the comings weeks/ months!
Maya
Bluelight Crew
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I've always been "the black sheep" of the family so my dad in a way wasn't surpised anymore. I thought they will disown me or something but he actually felt sorry for me as I turned out to be the opposite of the daughter they wanted me to be and asked me where did they go wrong. I actually cried constantly for days after I came clean... He was disappointed but also happy that this is the turning point of my life and at last I'd do somethin right after this whole mess. I'm actually very happy that I came clean coz it was such a burden to me.. I wanted to keep it to myself but the suffering was immense.. After coming clean I'm closer to my dad than ever and this is probably the closest I've ever been with my family. Like dpd I do feel guilty at times but I always thought that if the comedown didn't happen I wouldve fucked myself up more and wouldve used more drugs and damaged my brain intensely. Goodluck to you and to everyone!
pmz
Bluelighter
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Its just felt good to come clean. I now have the support of my parents when ever im not feeling good I can come vent to them rather than holding it inside and making myself feel worse.
I will keep updated thanks. I have a thread/journal im keeping http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/676148-my-come-down-nightmare-and-using-xanax-NEED-HELP-HERE on my thoughts and recovery toward returning to normalcy. I dont get a billion responses, but its just good to post up my daily experiences.
Dream Endlessly
Greenlighter
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I'm relatively new to E. Did a lot of what I thought was molly, turned out to be meth. Never done anything other than shrooms and weed before that so I had no idea. But I have gotten more experience. Some with pressed pills which are very nice. Although I don't think my experience really matters with what I'm about to say. Read the following BELIEVING ITS TRUE. Don't even second guess it. Don't even think about second guessing it. And it WILL help.
I truly believe that every mood, emotion, etc. is controllable. Everything is in your head. Any sort of damage, disorder, etc. is just a roadblock making it tougher. You need to BE HAPPY. Forget this bullshit comedown. Forget that you fucked up and abused it wrongly. Just realize that you're still alive. YOU are alive and YOU can decide how YOU feel. You want this comedown to go away? Done. Don't think about it. Don't stress over it. Forget it completely. It's just a little pest fucking with your mind. The more you think about it and the more you try to get rid of it, the more it will eat you. Your mind is in a state that wants you to feel shitty. It's secretly happy when you feel shitty. So just say fuck this I'm done with this shit and be fucking happy. That's what life is all about. Living it up to the fullest and being happy. You fucked up. So have billions of other people. But don't let that stupid shit stop YOU from being happy. You are in control of your life. YOU HAVE CONTROL. YOUR mind. YOUR body. YOUR personality. YOUR emotions. Not the fucking drug's or the comedown's. Those two things are non-existent. Fucking synthetic, fake shit to make life hard. Well don't let them take control of you. YOU have the power.
EDIT: I made an account just to post this shit cause I guarantee if you just believe it, it will work. Has before and will again.
I truly believe that every mood, emotion, etc. is controllable. Everything is in your head. Any sort of damage, disorder, etc. is just a roadblock making it tougher. You need to BE HAPPY. Forget this bullshit comedown. Forget that you fucked up and abused it wrongly. Just realize that you're still alive. YOU are alive and YOU can decide how YOU feel. You want this comedown to go away? Done. Don't think about it. Don't stress over it. Forget it completely. It's just a little pest fucking with your mind. The more you think about it and the more you try to get rid of it, the more it will eat you. Your mind is in a state that wants you to feel shitty. It's secretly happy when you feel shitty. So just say fuck this I'm done with this shit and be fucking happy. That's what life is all about. Living it up to the fullest and being happy. You fucked up. So have billions of other people. But don't let that stupid shit stop YOU from being happy. You are in control of your life. YOU HAVE CONTROL. YOUR mind. YOUR body. YOUR personality. YOUR emotions. Not the fucking drug's or the comedown's. Those two things are non-existent. Fucking synthetic, fake shit to make life hard. Well don't let them take control of you. YOU have the power.
EDIT: I made an account just to post this shit cause I guarantee if you just believe it, it will work. Has before and will again.
dpd_mnk92
Bluelighter
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Yes, I will agree with the fact that I have got the power to improve my situation. This is something I need to work on.
I disagree, however, that every mood and emotion is completely controllable. If this were the case, everyone would be happy all the time (or at least be able to eliminate sadness) and this does not seem to be possible for most people, regardless of how drugs and long term comedowns come into the equation. But yes, I can undoubtedly give my mood a serious boost by forcing myself to see my situation differently.
There are also other things, which I quite clearly can't have complete control over. The cognitive symptoms, for instance! I'm nowhere near as sharp as I was and that much is clear, every second of the day. I had to temporarily withdraw from my university and would never have done this unless it was absolutely necessary as it has, in a sense, taken a year out of my life. Then there are various physical symptoms. I have accepted mild visual hallucinations, blurry vision, ringing ears and symptoms of this nature as a part of my life now. People chalk these symptoms up to anxiety, but I am far less anxious than I was 4 months ago and yet they persist. Only time can help with a lot of these problems imo.
It's hard to just "decide" to be happy when things have gone so badly wrong. If I was just struggling with a few emotional/ mood problems, this would be a lot easier. It is tough though when you are faced with the prospect of never having sex again at the age of 21, potentially struggling academically over the next few years, having trouble socially etc. Don't get me wrong though. I am trying my best to beat this. I am going to the gym every day, I have cleaned up my diet, I have come clean to my family about this and I've stopped turning down invitations to social situations. I am also trying my best to see the positives, e.g. that I am still improving.
Thanks for your advice and in many ways, you are right. Self-pity won't get you anywhere. Just gotta try my best to pick up the pieces and make something of myself. But if it was as simple as "forget about the comedown, done", I wouldn't be in this mess right now. I think a lot of people who have not had it bad with MDMA really underestimate, and will never understand, the all-encompassing nature of this experience.
Hey guys,
I'm having the same problem.
I took some "molly" about 2 weeks ago, i snorted about .7 of it.
I felt the depression and anxiety the next few days and it was horrible. Depression , anxiety , panic attacks , insomnia , even to the point where i was thinking i was going to die i would get so scared i was going to have a heart attack or stroke or something , and it just really made me worry a lot.
The only things that could truely make me forget about it was skateboarding , its my life.
I was taking vitamin C and drinking Sleepy Time tea, and taking melatonin pills before i went to bed. all of those seemed to help a lot.
I started going back to my normal then like a dumb ass , i drank on friday night and got pretty wasted. but i felt fine the next day and actually liked it, because i dont drink that often , it actually felt pretty good.
( im not sure if drinking had anything to do with this but i put it in anyway )
The next day (saturday) i snorted about 2mg's of adderall, and parachuted another 10mg's. ( it was the orange circle shaped addys with 2 | 0 on the front. not sure if its IR or XR )
Right after i took it i regreted it , almost had a panic attack again. But then me and my friend hung out with my family , got in the hot tub, i felt better and i just went along with the adderall high , i was talking alot feeling good, just enjoying it , not thinking to much about it.
That night i started feeling like shit and i guess i freaked myself out a little about my irregular heartbeat , and i just overall didnt feel very good.
My friend had some weed and he wanted to smoke so i figured, fuck it why not?
I smoked , and felt okay .. but after about 20 minutes i started tripping out , ( my friend had similar side effects but not as strong)
got dizzy , lightheaded , anxiety was coming back , kinda felt detached from everything.
I just layed in my bed so depressed finally falling asleep at around 4am that night.
The next day ( sunday mothers day ) i felt okay when i woke up , then later on i started feeling like shit again. the anxiety and depression came back , and i wasnt motivated about anything , and i couldnt laugh or smile , could only think about negative things.
I slept from 4pm to around 10pm after taking some melatonin, tried going to sleep again at around 1am and couldnt , ended up being up till around 5am before falling asleep and waking up at 7am.
Today has been the worst out of the two weeks.
I was in class and started having suicidal thoughts asking myself how i was supposed to go on in life living with this depression , basicly anticipating death. My heart felt heavy and got kinda dizzzy again. i went to the nurse and told her i have anxiety problems i wanted to go home , and as i was trying to tell her what was happening i just started crying ( im 18 years old ) i was super embaressed. i went outside and walked around till my mom came and picked me up. some lady outside talking to me made me feel better a little.
im gonna go to the doctor today and see if theres some kind of medication that can maybe help me out a little with the anxiety and panick attacks. i heard xanax is what they usualy prescribe in these situations , ive heard good and bad things about it. i dont really know what to do , im just gonna sit back and see what happens , also i know excersise is good with the comedown but i get scared when im working out or skateboarding because my heartbeats super fast because i smoke to many ciggs , and my stamina sucks, but i know that its normal, it just scares me for some reason.
I'm having the same problem.
I took some "molly" about 2 weeks ago, i snorted about .7 of it.
I felt the depression and anxiety the next few days and it was horrible. Depression , anxiety , panic attacks , insomnia , even to the point where i was thinking i was going to die i would get so scared i was going to have a heart attack or stroke or something , and it just really made me worry a lot.
The only things that could truely make me forget about it was skateboarding , its my life.
I was taking vitamin C and drinking Sleepy Time tea, and taking melatonin pills before i went to bed. all of those seemed to help a lot.
I started going back to my normal then like a dumb ass , i drank on friday night and got pretty wasted. but i felt fine the next day and actually liked it, because i dont drink that often , it actually felt pretty good.
( im not sure if drinking had anything to do with this but i put it in anyway )
The next day (saturday) i snorted about 2mg's of adderall, and parachuted another 10mg's. ( it was the orange circle shaped addys with 2 | 0 on the front. not sure if its IR or XR )
Right after i took it i regreted it , almost had a panic attack again. But then me and my friend hung out with my family , got in the hot tub, i felt better and i just went along with the adderall high , i was talking alot feeling good, just enjoying it , not thinking to much about it.
That night i started feeling like shit and i guess i freaked myself out a little about my irregular heartbeat , and i just overall didnt feel very good.
My friend had some weed and he wanted to smoke so i figured, fuck it why not?
I smoked , and felt okay .. but after about 20 minutes i started tripping out , ( my friend had similar side effects but not as strong)
got dizzy , lightheaded , anxiety was coming back , kinda felt detached from everything.
I just layed in my bed so depressed finally falling asleep at around 4am that night.
The next day ( sunday mothers day ) i felt okay when i woke up , then later on i started feeling like shit again. the anxiety and depression came back , and i wasnt motivated about anything , and i couldnt laugh or smile , could only think about negative things.
I slept from 4pm to around 10pm after taking some melatonin, tried going to sleep again at around 1am and couldnt , ended up being up till around 5am before falling asleep and waking up at 7am.
Today has been the worst out of the two weeks.
I was in class and started having suicidal thoughts asking myself how i was supposed to go on in life living with this depression , basicly anticipating death. My heart felt heavy and got kinda dizzzy again. i went to the nurse and told her i have anxiety problems i wanted to go home , and as i was trying to tell her what was happening i just started crying ( im 18 years old ) i was super embaressed. i went outside and walked around till my mom came and picked me up. some lady outside talking to me made me feel better a little.
im gonna go to the doctor today and see if theres some kind of medication that can maybe help me out a little with the anxiety and panick attacks. i heard xanax is what they usualy prescribe in these situations , ive heard good and bad things about it. i dont really know what to do , im just gonna sit back and see what happens , also i know excersise is good with the comedown but i get scared when im working out or skateboarding because my heartbeats super fast because i smoke to many ciggs , and my stamina sucks, but i know that its normal, it just scares me for some reason.
Maya
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2013
- Messages
- 7,310
Like many of us here on bluelight, we had experienced comedowns that are somewhat similar or worse than yours. The very first thing that I can say is test your stuff first if you didn't test it, it couldve been some random chemical and I made the same mistake of not testing what I have ingested the last time I took m hence the comedown I am currently in. Secondly, you must avoid any type of substances until your brain and body has fully recovered. Alcohol makes me feel worse so I have to avoid this as well as smoking cigarettes. Exercise, eating healthy and lots of sleep and these were mentioned a lot on other posts. Time also heals I can say that I am better compared to the first three months (I'm on month 6).. If you haven't been a long time user you will def recover it just takes a lot of patience and there will be bad days. Goodluck we are here if u ever have questions.
we are here if u ever have questions.
futura2012
Bluelighter
Hello pmz your sleep shouldnt be getting worse if you are doing all the right things.
Are you still taking benzos? those dont help sleep in the long term.
Also alcohol can be very bad for sleep when suffering in the way we are.
When I had my first recovery it seemed like not much was improving then I went to bed one night and the increased heart beat had stopped, I slept properly for the first time in six months and I woke up feeling normal again.
I finally got those DP/DR videos done for you. The guy on there is a little quirky but some useful info. Video 12 about suppliments is quite ammusing :D
Heres the link
DP/DR Videos
http://www.4shared.com/folder/g_xLSptV/DP-DR_Videos.html
pmz
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 11, 2013
- Messages
- 550
yeah its weird. I feel like my sleep has been getting worse. By that I mean, I cant stay asleep. Ill go to sleep ok, but Ill keep waking up continually throughout the night and have a hard time getting back to sleep. Ill be honest, I havent been working out as much. Could be a reason, but yeah. Im not getting the sleep I should. I also feel like my reading comprehension has gone out the window since this all happened. Im feel like Im having a hard time picking up on the shit I read and misread a lot that I look at. Im not sure if thats because of the insomnia, but its the scariest part of what Im dealing with. I really hope I didnt fuck my brain up seriously.