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a question about MDMA and music appreciation

MMMMKAY?!

Ex-Bluelighter
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Jul 28, 2010
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How come using MDMA/MDA (etc.) which release a great deal of serotonin, greatly increase music appreciation, where as serotonin releasing medications, SSRIs, SNRIs, BuSpar etc, greatly decrease music appreciation..?
Never made sense to me o:
 
But we don't know much about this technically. It *would* be interesting to find out more information about this in the future, as I feel that serotonin has some mostly unexplored role in auditory processing. Many of the serotonin agonists, MDMA being one of them, are considered good for music appreciation. Pure dopamine compounds may feel good but they really aren't known for making music sound good. SSRIs aren't the same thing as an antagonists, but there are enough similarities that make it not surprising that there's a dulling of the appreciation of music on them...

I did find one reference pegging 5-HT1A as having a role in brain audio processing in PubMed:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8290307

But that's pretty much it, and I'm sure there's more to it than just one receptor (or for that matter just serotonin alone, since other compounds like the cannabinoids are known for helping music appreciation...)
 
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Sadly I can't comment on your question, but sometimes I dislike the over appreciation of any music, regardless of your tastes
Kinda like FUCK YEA GUYS THIS REBA ALBUM IS THE BEST SHIT I'VE EVER HEARD
 
But we don't know much about this technically. It *would* be interesting to find out more information about this in the future, as I feel that serotonin has some mostly unexplored role in auditory processing. Many of the serotonin agonists, MDMA being one of them, are considered good for music appreciation. Pure dopamine compounds may feel good but they really aren't known for making music sound good. SSRIs aren't the same thing as an antagonists, but there are enough similarities that make it not surprising that there's a dulling of the appreciation of music on them...

I did find one reference pegging 5-HT1A as having a role in brain audio processing in PubMed:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8290307

But that's pretty much it, and I'm sure there's more to it than just one receptor (or for that matter just serotonin alone, since other compounds like the cannabinoids are known for helping music appreciation...)

thank you for this answer. [:
and do ssris AND mdma effect 5-h1a?








@Folley, thank you for your technicalness lol[:
 
I believe they both effect the same receptors but do so in almost opposite ways. MDMA forces you to flood your synapse with serotonin, filling the receptors. SSRIs block the serotonin from leaving the synapse, obviously causing a much different effect
 
I believe they both effect the same receptors but do so in almost opposite ways. MDMA forces you to flood your synapse with serotonin, filling the receptors. SSRIs block the serotonin from leaving the synapse, obviously causing a much different effect

true.
so maybe, because the SSRIs do it in a more "controlled" way, letting only so much out, it's like that's all the serotonin it's letting you have. Like listening to music can't cause more to come out because the SSRI is controlling it..? and MDMA just makes it release. not controlling it, so listening to music makes it flood even more.

hmm..idk o:
 
Well, kind of. Communication between various nerve cells in the body utilize chemicals called neurotransmitters to bridge gaps in the nerves (synapses). Neurochemical release is under normal circumstances are controlled by your normal body function. Serotonin is one of those neurotransmitters.

MDMA is primarily a monoamine releaser. (Monoamine is a subcategory of neurotransmitters.) It seems to inhibit various monoamine transport systems that normally regulate the amount of serotonin (and others) that gets released in these gaps. The net result is that your brain is flooded with excess serotonin and other neurotransmitters. But MDMA *also* is a weak agonist of some serotonin receptors -- which means that MDMA itself has the ability to actually bind to certain cell trigger points normally stimulated by serotonin -- and trigger a similar response. (MDA is a stronger serotonin receptor agonist which explains why it is "trippier".) It's a combined effect here.

This is in contrast to classic psychedelics like LSD, which often are strong serotonin receptor agonists but are not monoamine releasers.

When a synapse releases serotonin, it eventually gets re-absorbed into the nervous system after it has performed the function of transmitting the signal. This process is called "reuptake". SSRIs work by inhibiting this reuptake process. This increases the time that the serotonin is in the gap, and thus increases the strength of the signal. The theory is that depression is caused by low serotonin levels, which leads to low levels of neurotransmitters in the gaps. The theory is that increasing the time that serotonin remains in the synapse gap will help depression (which it probably does for some people).

The problem with SSRIs, from a serotonin receptor perspective, is that the body -- faced with more serotonin than it expects -- decreases the sensitivity of its serotonin receptors. This is called "downregulation". (This actually is quite the same phenomenon involved with the MDMA comedown). This is probably fine with some forms of mood disorder treatment, since receptor overactivity of the serotonin system actually is implicit with some mood disorders.

But if serotonin receptors are somehow involved with *some* function when the brain's processing of music, this may in part explain why music just isn't as enjoyable on SSRIs (with downregulated serotonin receptors), but is "better" on many serotonergic compounds (eg, stimulated serotonin receptors -- agonists. Probably the releasing aspect helps too.). On the question of how, I don't know, and I can't see any paper going into huge detail. Makes sense though that there is a connection.

(Mind you, there is so little information out there on how music is processed in the brain, any posturing on what role serotonin really plays in this is quite speculative. I think it's fun to speculate though. :) )
 
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serotonin is not the same as serotonin. well it is, but it hugely depends on which neurons in which part of the brain are activated (and how they are activated). some of these neurons have 5-ht2b receptors, which mediate serotonin release by the transporter (apparently that also happens physiologically). ssris block this pathway and mdma according to recent scientific evidence relies on this pathway to produce its effects. so here you have completely opposing mechanisms of action. combine that with the ssri induced increase of serotonin concentrations at synapses which generally release more serotonin and the subsequent downregulation of receptors and mdma's stimulant- and psychedelic-like qualities and you got different classes of drugs that aren't comparable in their effects at all.
 
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