mareseatoats
Bluelighter
No!!!!!!! Don't Do it!!!!!!!!!!!
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Heroin Thinking of moving on to heroin.
- Thread starter Lycopene
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BlueHues
Bluelighter
^Yeah, well I probably can't techinically tell you how to get on methadone, but it's pretty easy.....It's a bad decision though, unless you plan on being dependent on opiates anyway....that's all I'm gonna say!
Understood. But, as I said, I need this. Badly. A lot of people are on opiates for long-term pain maintenance. I should be one of those people. But due to my age, doctors are biased. I am MORE than willing to live a life dependent on opiates if it allows me to LIVE. You know what I mean?
methadone is one of the most difficult opiates to stop using once you become dependent on it. It can be extremely dangerous and it is extremely potent and long acting. It isnt really a ideal pain med because when pain flares up you cant take a bit more when its really bad or a bit less when its not as bad.
you should really try to use the weakest possible opiates in the smallest doses for as long as possible, codeine maybe hydrocodone, tramadol even its a very long road.
you should really try to use the weakest possible opiates in the smallest doses for as long as possible, codeine maybe hydrocodone, tramadol even its a very long road.
Bill
Bluelight Crew
I'd say no to the deathadone before the h
Just don't and you'll thank yourself later
What ever immense pain you are in now will be tiny compared to the wd pain symtoms from a full agonist like 'done or dope, especially methadone since the wd is almost 3 times as long as a heroin wd, all paws being unaccounted for and just talking about the initial dope sickness
Plus while it leaves you crippled every day when you wake up, if you haven't something for the morning be prepared to be in total junkie mind frame mode, it'll strip all your morals and values from you if you do develop a dependency and make you into a person you never thought you'd let yourself be.
I mean, yeah some people can attain and indulge with opiates in moderation, but most users can't and will eventually develop a dependency, doesn't matter how long or how it happened, it usually happens
To be honest, yes it will kill all your pain, it will kill it so hard that it will kill all the pain and problems in your life because it just feels that fucking good.
But it's a fake numbness, it deteriorates you physically and emotionally, you wont feel anything anymore while it's there, not empathy, sympathy, passion, all those feelings are erased almost and you have not a care in the world when you're high, when you're dope sick there's no telling what a junkie might resort to doing just to be well for one day, given the situation and circumstances of the user.
Ime then eventually your habit gets so out of control you can't even really enjoy that high anymore once you get well because the only thing on your mind is total guilt because of what ever really fucked up shit you just had to do to get it, all this with you never ever being able to definitely know the purity of the drug because who knows how many countless times it's been stepped on before ever reaching your hand, making it a viscous and very cruel cycle
Listen to other bl'ers, you came to the right place, there has to be a reason your arm is hurting so bad, something out there other than a dope habit would be a much better decision imho and you will never have to experience any of the above in my post or this thread
No one started out with whatever opiate, planning on turning into a junkie
Just don't and you'll thank yourself later
What ever immense pain you are in now will be tiny compared to the wd pain symtoms from a full agonist like 'done or dope, especially methadone since the wd is almost 3 times as long as a heroin wd, all paws being unaccounted for and just talking about the initial dope sickness
Plus while it leaves you crippled every day when you wake up, if you haven't something for the morning be prepared to be in total junkie mind frame mode, it'll strip all your morals and values from you if you do develop a dependency and make you into a person you never thought you'd let yourself be.
I mean, yeah some people can attain and indulge with opiates in moderation, but most users can't and will eventually develop a dependency, doesn't matter how long or how it happened, it usually happens
To be honest, yes it will kill all your pain, it will kill it so hard that it will kill all the pain and problems in your life because it just feels that fucking good.
But it's a fake numbness, it deteriorates you physically and emotionally, you wont feel anything anymore while it's there, not empathy, sympathy, passion, all those feelings are erased almost and you have not a care in the world when you're high, when you're dope sick there's no telling what a junkie might resort to doing just to be well for one day, given the situation and circumstances of the user.
Ime then eventually your habit gets so out of control you can't even really enjoy that high anymore once you get well because the only thing on your mind is total guilt because of what ever really fucked up shit you just had to do to get it, all this with you never ever being able to definitely know the purity of the drug because who knows how many countless times it's been stepped on before ever reaching your hand, making it a viscous and very cruel cycle
Listen to other bl'ers, you came to the right place, there has to be a reason your arm is hurting so bad, something out there other than a dope habit would be a much better decision imho and you will never have to experience any of the above in my post or this thread
No one started out with whatever opiate, planning on turning into a junkie
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I know for sure I came to the right place. I've been using this site for years.
Tramadol doesn't do anything, codeine makes me sick (and is laughable. It does even less than Tramadol), Hydrocodone doesn't work either, Dilaudid works and so does oxycodone (in higher, 50~60mg doses). Low doses simply don't work. I have severely chronic pain and a natural opiate tolerance. Doctors just don't like that. It sucks, because I will NOT abuse these. At all. I won't do anything bad with them. I will take them exactly as prescribed and live life moderately pain-free. Or more so than I am now.
But, let me tell you this. I WILL go the heroin route if I can't get a doctor to give me pain meds in the next month or two.
When, and if, I decide to go the heroin route, is this a good forum to ask for advice, or is BL purely harm-reduction and won't talk about different ways to use said substance?
Tramadol doesn't do anything, codeine makes me sick (and is laughable. It does even less than Tramadol), Hydrocodone doesn't work either, Dilaudid works and so does oxycodone (in higher, 50~60mg doses). Low doses simply don't work. I have severely chronic pain and a natural opiate tolerance. Doctors just don't like that. It sucks, because I will NOT abuse these. At all. I won't do anything bad with them. I will take them exactly as prescribed and live life moderately pain-free. Or more so than I am now.
But, let me tell you this. I WILL go the heroin route if I can't get a doctor to give me pain meds in the next month or two.
When, and if, I decide to go the heroin route, is this a good forum to ask for advice, or is BL purely harm-reduction and won't talk about different ways to use said substance?
sekio
Bluelight Crew
The safest option is: no dose whatsoever.
Whatever option you pick: be patient between doses. Heroin has to metabolise into morphine (well, 6-monoacetylmorphine) before it takes effect.
Pick one route of administration, and stick to it. These methods can vary in efficiency.
BA = amount of heroin that gets in your blood, relative to 100% (IV injection)
Smoking heroin will produce an immediate effect but takes some skill. Approx. 10-30% BA (dope on a lit cigarette) to more than 60% with skill
Insufflated or plugged heroin will take longer maybe 5-10 minutes, to take full effect. BA is very high, >80
Eating heroin will essentially cause all of it to be converted to morphine, but it will still take 20-60 minutes before it is fully absorbed. BA 30-60% (as morphine by weight - so actual BA is very low, 10% ish.).
All heroin should be treated like it was two-and-a-half times its weight in morphine., for safety's sake, and until there has been a reliable titration done.
If you are experienced with opioids, just rememeber. Heroin is every bit as potent as oxycodone, but everyone responds differently. An overdose of opioids is unpleasant at best, a *grave* situation at worst. It is always best to err on the side of caution.
Start wth 5mg measured very carefully, either smoked/vapourised or insufflated, and take more as needed, but just... know your limits, alright! And keep notes so you know what a good dose is.
Whatever option you pick: be patient between doses. Heroin has to metabolise into morphine (well, 6-monoacetylmorphine) before it takes effect.
Pick one route of administration, and stick to it. These methods can vary in efficiency.
BA = amount of heroin that gets in your blood, relative to 100% (IV injection)
Smoking heroin will produce an immediate effect but takes some skill. Approx. 10-30% BA (dope on a lit cigarette) to more than 60% with skill
Insufflated or plugged heroin will take longer maybe 5-10 minutes, to take full effect. BA is very high, >80
Eating heroin will essentially cause all of it to be converted to morphine, but it will still take 20-60 minutes before it is fully absorbed. BA 30-60% (as morphine by weight - so actual BA is very low, 10% ish.).
All heroin should be treated like it was two-and-a-half times its weight in morphine., for safety's sake, and until there has been a reliable titration done.
If you are experienced with opioids, just rememeber. Heroin is every bit as potent as oxycodone, but everyone responds differently. An overdose of opioids is unpleasant at best, a *grave* situation at worst. It is always best to err on the side of caution.
Start wth 5mg measured very carefully, either smoked/vapourised or insufflated, and take more as needed, but just... know your limits, alright! And keep notes so you know what a good dose is.
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So I'm guessing that injection is just the best method. That will save the most, as I only have to use roughly half the same amount as any other way, and it has 100% bioavailability (right?).
IF I go this route. I'm still checking into other options, and I'm once again calling a nurse hotline and then making a couple more appointments with other doctors. Sigh.
Thanks a lot, guys!
IF I go this route. I'm still checking into other options, and I'm once again calling a nurse hotline and then making a couple more appointments with other doctors. Sigh.
Thanks a lot, guys!
Bill
Bluelight Crew
Wow you are thinking about main lining to begin with!?
Seems like you have your mind made up
I hope you find a good doctor
Seems like you have your mind made up
I hope you find a good doctor
BlueHues
Bluelighter
^Ha! you don't really get what I'm saying....you don't just "Go the heroin route"! Unless your best friend happens to be a complete junkie that knows everyone in town, "going the heroin route" isn't as simple as a "decision".....where do live? Somewhere in the NE USA? London, Russia, colombia, Mexico, LA, Chicago, Atlanta? If you answered yes to any of those questions, "going the heroin route" might actually be pretty easy.....there's plenty of places I missed on that list, but unless you live in a place where heroin is readily available, as a regular guy, just finding it wouldl probably be a huge challenge to you! You just have no idea what "going the heroin route" actually means! Shit.....some of us do, and it's really fucking fucked up and "labor intensive"! haah.....
I wouldn't disagree with "Bill" here.....Methadone sucks, and it's worse than heroin in many ways....but if you absolutely are hell-bent on using strong opiates everyday, it's your cheapest easiest option....especially if you're just some white dude who has no idea how to negotiate the waters of a fucked up criminal underworld, which is exactly where you'll probably end up if you start with heroin!
Of course, you could find someone LIKE ME, who supported his heroin habit getting it for other people who weren't as good at dealing with the criminal element....not really proud of that, it's just something I kind of learned how to do over the years of using drugs....but I can tell you, even just in my little area of the country, it took a long time as a white kid to find the connections I had....to be able to get good shit, to get a fair deal.....as some random white guy with no street smarts and a button-up shirt? You're pretty much screwed! You could always get lucky, but it takes balls.....and talking to a lot of different intimidating characters to find good heroin or cocaine....any of the really hard shit...
Methadone.....you shouldnt do it, but it's easy....heroin is not as bad in some ways...Its all kind of the same in other ways though....This is just too much for me to really express my full opinion on....It goes really deep....there's alot to it....It's close to home! lol....
I wouldn't disagree with "Bill" here.....Methadone sucks, and it's worse than heroin in many ways....but if you absolutely are hell-bent on using strong opiates everyday, it's your cheapest easiest option....especially if you're just some white dude who has no idea how to negotiate the waters of a fucked up criminal underworld, which is exactly where you'll probably end up if you start with heroin!
Of course, you could find someone LIKE ME, who supported his heroin habit getting it for other people who weren't as good at dealing with the criminal element....not really proud of that, it's just something I kind of learned how to do over the years of using drugs....but I can tell you, even just in my little area of the country, it took a long time as a white kid to find the connections I had....to be able to get good shit, to get a fair deal.....as some random white guy with no street smarts and a button-up shirt? You're pretty much screwed! You could always get lucky, but it takes balls.....and talking to a lot of different intimidating characters to find good heroin or cocaine....any of the really hard shit...
Methadone.....you shouldnt do it, but it's easy....heroin is not as bad in some ways...Its all kind of the same in other ways though....This is just too much for me to really express my full opinion on....It goes really deep....there's alot to it....It's close to home! lol....
Well I have made my mind up for the most part. I want to get the most out of my money (clearly I'll be using a very small dose). If it gets to the point where I *NEED* another dose for something other than the pain, I will stop.
Yes, I know everyone says that, but at least give me the benefit of the doubt. I think I will be ok. And even if I'm not, I'll still be better off than I am right now.
I hope I find a good doctor too.
Yes, I know everyone says that, but at least give me the benefit of the doubt. I think I will be ok. And even if I'm not, I'll still be better off than I am right now.
I hope I find a good doctor too.
sekio
Bluelight Crew
Congratulations, you have now cut out a major portion of the addiction process, and can skip right ahead to the final stage where the chronic pain patients frolic in their free, green pastures.
If the extra maybe 20% of heroin you'll get out of injecting is a concern you should seriously reconsider... There are so many risks involved adding injection will end up costing you just about as much time and money as the extra heroin would!
You are not even in withdrawals and you are trying to rationalise extending your dope supply to last as long as possible. Digging yourself out of one pit -chronic pain - and into another - opioid dependency. This does not present a good argument for someone trying to "live life".
Opioid therapy is a means, not end! No joyful final destination where pain patients are always happy. Sorry. Doesn't work that way.
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I think you need to stop being rude to me. Step in my shoes and then you'll understand. Not everyone is going to be of the same opinion as you. Some people are going to be ok with taking horrible things like this. I am. This is harm-reduction, not scare-the-fuck-out-of-people. Yeah, it's a dangerous and scary route, but you have to do what you have to do.
Why, of all places, would I come HERE if I was just looking to get high? No, I wanted EDUCATED help.
Well, if I love the rush, I'll stop. Simple as that. And as I've said, I have a monster opiate tolerance. As in it takes around 60mg oxy to even mildly control my pain.
sekio
Bluelight Crew
Advocating IV injection as a "better ROA" is not harm reduction.
BlueHues
Bluelighter
^We don't really need to get on our soap-boxes and give you blow by blow accounts of our own struggles with opiates, because if you even poked around a little bit on BL, you'd easily be able to find posts relating to "the pain of opiate addiction"....You ARE getting educated advice, by some of the most "educated" people on BL, whether you realize it or not...
sekio
Bluelight Crew
You and every last fucking heroin (oxy, meth, cocaine) addict alive.
How many people here inject heroin or Dilaudid? How many of them get this shit? I know it's bad. I realize that. I also realize that I need help, and I've stated I'd rather live through hellish withdrawals (already been through cold turkey benzo withdrawals. I can handle opiate)
I'm also not asking you to ADVOCATE it. I'm asking for HELP. Methadone and different preparations of heroin. That's all I'm hearing. I'm also hearing that methadone might be WORSE? Sigh. Maybe this was the wrong forum to come to.
I will not use heroin IF THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE. Is there? No? Then I'm using heroin.
I'm also not asking you to ADVOCATE it. I'm asking for HELP. Methadone and different preparations of heroin. That's all I'm hearing. I'm also hearing that methadone might be WORSE? Sigh. Maybe this was the wrong forum to come to.
I will not use heroin IF THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE. Is there? No? Then I'm using heroin.
Except I'm not an addict. Don't assume. I know of plenty of people who have done it just once.
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