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advice needed! any and all accepted.

B

boabbymac

Greenlighter
Joined
May 15, 2011
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24
Awryt lads, my missus and i are opiate addicts we take all sorts of opiates mainly IV and mainly oxy, mst's and heroin.
Our doses are roughly 700-900mg mst
and 200-250mg of oxy a day or 1g heroin and 200-250mg of oxy a day each. We have been doing this for 2 coming on 3 years and we've finally decided enough is enough for now and we are planning on kicking it at the end of the month. For coming off the opiates we have a range of pharmacueticals to help with the withdrawals namely 350mg methadone, 100 40mg df118, 100 2mg clonazepam, 100 300mg gabapentins and 30 100mg and 60 25mg seroquel. The advice i was looking for was a kind of taper guide for doses and timings of said doses. I realise this is a long post and I hope this post makes sense as im kinda fucked right now and am typing on a phone.
 
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I am new here, so I am not sure what is allowed to be said, rule-wise..but I will say that in my personal opinion, a faster taper is better than a long and drawn out one.

I have kicked heroin several times, all different ways: Rehab, Detox programs, Incarceration, Methadone programs (including maintenance,) and finally, once on my own with the use of suboxone for which I did a very very short taper.

It seems as though you have quite an arsenal of medications at your disposal.

I wish you the best of luck, and just remember, it isn't ever gonna feel good but it is so worth it.

Best wishes :)
 
personally? id fuck everything off but the df's and sleepers - and by fuck off i actually mean hold on to them incase of relapse.. aside from seroquel, you can fuck them off lol. 50 df's each, or possibly 60/40 in your favour if youre a fair bit bigger. on a ten day detox id take two to three df's in morning, with enough clonazepam to knock you both out, keep two df's and more clonazepam for night, wake up.. try to eat/wash/smoke a cig.. whatever. down last two df's and clonazepam and go back to sleep. rinse and repeat. stay away from the methadone for now, use the absolute minimum of your stash to get through

also remember that once kicked, you will not be back to 'a clean slate'... taking opiates again even for a couple days will bring your rattle back with a vengeance. also remember that you will probably end up loathing your partner in every was possible by the time youre done. i would consider doing it seperate, if youve desire to keep some form of mutual-libido anyway


good luck
 
Cheers for the advice guys! Tbh i feel pretty positive about this! I have kicked opioid/opiate painkillers before namely fentanyl but that was 6 years ago when i was the young age of 18! That was absolute hell due to the extremely short half life of fent! After that i was clean from opiates/oids for 3 years then i stupidly started taking heroin again, to self medicate my trig-menial neuralgia (now at the pain clinic for it). Anyway im totally rambling need my first shot and spliff of the day! Also forgot to say that the missus and i both work so we have only really got 7 days to play with!. Anyway thanks again for the advice guys and il be sure to keep you updated on my progress :).
 
My fucking phone wont let me edit my last msg. But it was just to say to BHM that the bird and i have kicked it before together and we have always seen it as a blessing being together you know for the company and the like
 
Yikes. That's gonna be a bumpy seven days. Pretty rapid stepping down but doable. A very long way from being comfortable at any stage though.

I'm really not a fan of rapid tapers. They never worked for me longterm but have dropped from similar kinda levels of use to yourselves to nothing with nothing to ease the fall on several occasions so is definitely achievable. I'd tend to agree with BHM (for once :D) and stick to just DFs and benzos. Methadone would be more comfy but not really suited to such short detoxes, well, imo and all that.

I'd maybe add that the concept of sleeping whilst in such acute withdrawal is a totally alien one to me. There aren't enough benzos in the world to get me a wink of sleep in the first few days of a detox. They do help take the edge off though and clonazepam should be particularly helpful.

Not much to add really other than the very best of British to the both of you <3
 
Again cheers guys! I was thinkibg of using the methadone only in the evening maybe just 10-20 ml a night, as i feel that that would be enough to relax our bodies enough to sleep with 200mg DF and 5mg clonazepam. And the morning dose was going to be 200-300mg df and 2-3mg clonazepam with the odd ml of meth here and there for use as a pick me up? What do you guys think of that? Im currently writing up a wee chart for the taper and i will post it on here once i get back from picking up :)
 
Thing with adding in methadone is the massive half life. If you take 10-20ml a night that's quite a bit of opioid in it's own right. If you've only got seven days to do it in you need as little opioid going in to your system as possible. It's all gotta come out and a week is cutting it fine as it is if you need to be ready to work immediately afterwards.

For such a tight schedule you really need to be just getting by on the skin of your teeth. If you're comfy then you're not detoxing. If it really is too much at first then maybe go for 10-20ml of methadone for the first day or two and skip the DFs if possible. Each time you put a mg of DHC or a ml of methadone in your body it has to come out. I always found it surprising how little you can get by on if you really have to. A lot of the w/d stuff is in the head. You've really just got to accept it's gonna be hell for a week and that the worse you feel the better you're doing.

In terms of specific doses of anything, you know how much you have to play with so should be easy to divvy it up into reducing daily doses. If you can do it on just the DFs and clonaz then I'd definitely recommend you do. Methadone as an absolute last resort. If you're using methadone for more than a day or two out of the seven you really aren't detoxing enough to be clucked in a week. Again, my opinion and all that. You know far better than anybody else how the both of you cope with harsh withdrawals so do what's best for you.

Is there no way of getting onto a supervised tapering programme at all? Or is it that you just want to do it on your own? Just seems a bit unnecessarily drastic to drop from such a hefty habit to nothing in a week when there would surely be easier ways. Again, you know your situation best, but the number of times I and friends tried to do these drastic detoxes and relapsed is ridiculous. Long, slow, painless taper all the way for me. But each to their own and I certainly wish you both good luck with it. Keep us posted - we're a supportive bunch here dontcha know :)
 
fwiw i would just get a shed load more of methadone and do a 2 week tapper on it and nothing else maybe some benzos to help sleep if needed - Im assuming you dont take 'done now. On the amount your taking you would need to start on 70mgs of 'done if u wanna taper schedule pm me.
 
BlindHelperMonkey said:
also remember that once kicked, you will not be back to 'a clean slate'... taking opiates again even for a couple days will bring your rattle back with a vengeance. also remember that you will probably end up loathing your partner in every was possible by the time youre done. i would consider doing it seperate, if youve desire to keep some form of mutual-libido anyway
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OMGGGGGGG ^THIS!

I was a moderate to heavy heroin user (daily) for a little under 12 years. I am just now getting ready to turn 30, so I had been using entire adult life. Finally managed to put a few years clean time together and ended up getting high once (just once, I lied to myself lol,) then of course that turned into a few days. I am now a professional, and after about a week, I decided I would like to put a stop to it. Much to my surprise, I woke up with withdrawal symptoms AFTER ONLY A WEEK.

I learned this lesson the hard way, but I am in the medical field and forever learning in general. BlindHelperMonkey, do you know the science behind this? I am curious as I have attempted to research this before.

TO the OP- How's it going? Keep it up! Thinking of yall :)
 
not really, its a matter we have pondered before. i will ask my partner tonight if there is a known phenomenological process behind it. but if i were to hazzard a guess, i would think it stems from either one of the following three possibilities or a combination thereof; 'muscle memory', self generated counteractive enzymes or placebo effect. the muscle memory theory dictates that the body has a mechanism through which it 'remembers' its previous use and subtley attunes your nervous system to the familiar, well worn state of affairs - in essence the biological equivalent remembering how to ride a bike. the second theory goes that the brain, which inherantly wants to be sober (..yes, really..) eventually produces counteractive enzymes which basically produce an anti-heroin effect, this is then felt as pseudo-withdrawal. or lastly & probably most likely.. it stems from placebo. if youve ever woke feeling awful yet felt better ten mins later, having taken nothing.. youve experienced the power of placebo
 
BlindHelperMonkey said:
not really, its a matter we have pondered before. i will ask my partner tonight if there is a known phenomenological process behind it. but if i were to hazzard a guess, i would think it stems from either one of the following three possibilities or a combination thereof; 'muscle memory', self generated counteractive enzymes or placebo effect. the muscle memory theory dictates that the body has a mechanism through which it 'remembers' its previous use and subtley attunes your nervous system to the familiar, well worn state of affairs - in essence the biological equivalent remembering how to ride a bike. the second theory goes that the brain, which inherantly wants to be sober (..yes, really..) eventually produces counteractive enzymes which basically produce an anti-heroin effect, this is then felt as pseudo-withdrawal. or lastly & probably most likely.. it stems from placebo. if youve ever woke feeling awful yet felt better ten mins later, having taken nothing.. youve experienced the power of placebo
Click to expand...

As you're clearly capable, you should make more useful posts like this & less of the divisive, psuedo-political, social commentary type rubbbish you usually come out with...

Please excuse the hi-jack op, best wishes & good luck!
 
BlindHelperMonkey said:
not really, its a matter we have pondered before. i will ask my partner tonight if there is a known phenomenological process behind it. but if i were to hazzard a guess, i would think it stems from either one of the following three possibilities or a combination thereof; 'muscle memory', self generated counteractive enzymes or placebo effect. the muscle memory theory dictates that the body has a mechanism through which it 'remembers' its previous use and subtley attunes your nervous system to the familiar, well worn state of affairs - in essence the biological equivalent remembering how to ride a bike. the second theory goes that the brain, which inherantly wants to be sober (..yes, really..) eventually produces counteractive enzymes which basically produce an anti-heroin effect, this is then felt as pseudo-withdrawal. or lastly & probably most likely.. it stems from placebo. if youve ever woke feeling awful yet felt better ten mins later, having taken nothing.. youve experienced the power of placebo
Click to expand...

Nice try sweetie, you're coked up or something atm? The term you're looking for, though, is "opioid kindling". Here's some reading:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2165433

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00210-004-0870-4#page-1



to OP: I agree with most that are saying you should skip the methadon. maybe use a small amount of subutex instead. i'd get stronger benzo's than just clonazepam if i were you. kratom (if you can keep it down) is mild but helpful, the gabapentin too. also, seroquel is not a very pleasant sleeper for me when i'm in wd, YMMV, but i'd rather take trazodone and/or promethazine.
 
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If i was in your position i would try a suboxone clinic, there's outpatient ones that work well and the good thing about it is you have a doctor giving you how much your body needs to feel normal instead of trying to dose yourself, I drove a close buddy of mine to a privately owned clinic and sat with him for 6 hrs while they kept giving him 2mg doses every 30-40 minutes until he felt no side effects from the detox, after that he would stop by once a week and get his refill after a drug test and they weened him off of it in a few weeks. I know you said you only have 7 days to work with but the good thing about doing a suboxone detox is that you feel like your normal self no highs or lows, it helped me quit almost 3 years ago without ever relapsing.
 
True, true, but I can explain my typo, here's what the methadone looks like where I'm from:

Intro_Methadon-_Sandoz_5mg.jpg


:D
 
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