Reaching out to my BL friends

[xxxyakinikuxxx]

I agree. Don't really feel like getting in a big discussion about this but I had no clue about this site until my life got turned upside down and I had to struggle to find some sort of answer to what was happening to me. The only harm creation I experienced was through the attitudes of the people who introduced md** to me. Their complete lack of knowledge of the dangers/proper usage of this drug is what got me into this mess. Not some forum on some site I had never even heard of. Maybe some people feel like these stories cause fear-mongering but if you ask me they only serve to counter-balance the extreme recklessness found throughout drug culture.

 

[F1n1shed]

It is definitely a positive thing for the ecstasy discussion to have these horror stories. There are people out there who get fucked up long term consequences from only a few doses of MDMA.
Back when i was starting to roll , there were basically NO negative threads about MDMA. It was all about having 1 month in between rolling and you are 100%. But i followed that rule and fucked my self badly, and i had no one to relate to. I thought i was the only one getting destroyed by MDMA with pretty moderate usage. Anyway, these threads make people double think this drug.

 

[vancbc]

I agree. Don't really feel like getting in a big discussion about this but I had no clue about this site until my life got turned upside down and I had to struggle to find some sort of answer to what was happening to me. The only harm creation I experienced was through the attitudes of the people who introduced md** to me. Their complete lack of knowledge of the dangers/proper usage of this drug is what got me into this mess. Not some forum on some site I had never even heard of. Maybe some people feel like these stories cause fear-mongering but if you ask me they only serve to counter-balance the extreme recklessness found throughout drug culture.

You miss the point as much of Bluelight misses the point. Harm reduction is not about counter-balancing the extreme recklessness found throughout drug culture. Harm reduction is about promoting the safer usage of drugs. A good example of a harm reduction website is / was the American based website Dancesafe.org. I used it when I first got into drugs. That was some years ago, but discussion was limited to the safer usage of drugs - not a place for drug users to share tips about how to get higher or enjoy drugs (phrased in the form of a "harm reduction" question) or for people who had abused to get together to commiserate. Honestly, the reason I migrated to Bluelight was because as I became familiar with MDMA I found Dancesafe "boring" because I wanted a forum that allowed me to connect with other drug users outside of a harm reduction perspective.

I don't know FBC personally, but for anyone who has dealt with mental illness in friends or family - his opening lines are highly suggestive of an underlying psychological issue that goes far beyond MDMA or harm reduction. The long, rambling posts and the pleas to comfort grieving family members in the face of impending death are part and parcel of mental imbalance - and they have been effective in gathering a certain captive audience on Bluelight. The message and the following, as well meaning as they are, do not serve the interests of Bluelight or harm reduction in general.

Do I doubt that what FBC is experiencing is real to him? No. Do I think his experience is representative of drug use or even the combinations of drugs that he attributes it to? Not even close. People die from taking a single aspirin, people die from eating shellfish - I've even read of a woman who was highly allergic to her husband's semen. Do these issues become the clarion call to terrify people into not taking medication, eating seafood or having sex? No. Just as in these cases, there needs to be a proper perspective of MDMA: namely that anecdotally millions of people have taken hundreds of millions of pills (use and abuse) and end up fine in the end. Fear-mongering or trying to "counter balance" serves no useful harm reduction purpose.

 

[dpd_mnk92]

You miss the point as much of Bluelight misses the point. Harm reduction is not about counter-balancing the extreme recklessness found throughout drug culture. Harm reduction is about promoting the safer usage of drugs. A good example of a harm reduction website is / was the American based website Dancesafe.org. I used it when I first got into drugs. That was some years ago, but discussion was limited to the safer usage of drugs - not a place for drug users to share tips about how to get higher or enjoy drugs (phrased in the form of a "harm reduction" question) or for people who had abused to get together to commiserate. Honestly, the reason I migrated to Bluelight was because as I became familiar with MDMA I found Dancesafe "boring" because I wanted a forum that allowed me to connect with other drug users outside of a harm reduction perspective.

I don't know FBC personally, but for anyone who has dealt with mental illness in friends or family - his opening lines are highly suggestive of an underlying psychological issue that goes far beyond MDMA or harm reduction. The long, rambling posts and the pleas to comfort grieving family members in the face of impending death are part and parcel of mental imbalance - and they have been effective in gathering a certain captive audience on Bluelight. The message and the following, as well meaning as they are, do not serve the interests of Bluelight or harm reduction in general.

Do I doubt that what FBC is experiencing is real to him? No. Do I think his experience is representative of drug use or even the combinations of drugs that he attributes it to? Not even close. People die from taking a single aspirin, people die from eating shellfish - I've even read of a woman who was highly allergic to her husband's semen. Do these issues become the clarion call to terrify people into not taking medication, eating seafood or having sex? No. Just as in these cases, there needs to be a proper perspective of MDMA: namely that anecdotally millions of people have taken hundreds of millions of pills (use and abuse) and end up fine in the end. Fear-mongering or trying to "counter balance" serves no useful harm reduction purpose.

Yes harm reduction is about promoting the safer usage of drugs. However, a big part of understanding how one should use a drug safely involves acknowledging the risks involved. Horror stories serve as a useful reminder of the dark side of MDMA and how it can ruin lives if not treated with respect. Yes many people have taken a lot of pills and been "fine in the end" (whatever that means), but many people including myself have woken up an entirely different person with physical, mental and emotional symptoms. I have not worried these into existence because one of my main problems is that I'm unable to worry about anything.

It really is impossible to argue my side of the story sometimes, because people are always gonna respond with things like "you're just being a hypochondriac" or "I haven't noticed any of these symptoms myself, so other people must be making them up". And there really is no counterargument. It's just my word against someone elses at this point because no one, including myself, can definitively conclude anything about my mind and how it's been affected/ is affecting itself.

Your theory is that FBC is genetically predisposed with certain psychological issues which were triggered by the MDMA. How does this make his anecdotal reports any less relevant? Anyone can have an underlying condition and therefore anyone that does MDMA could be playing russian roulette on some sorta scale. It is up to the individual to decide whether or not these risks are worth it to him/ her and this is only possible when we've gleaned information off as many sources as possible - both from those who praise the substance for it's awesome properties as well as those who've been ruined by it without any sort of warning. Not to mention, I have learned more from FBC about MDMA neurotoxicity and real, practical strategies for coping with symptoms than everyone else on the board combined. I obviously don't accept everything he has ever posted as absolute truth, but i do believe there's a lot people can learn about HR from his posts alone.

I wouldn't be so quick to doubt the destructive power of MDMA. I've seen how beautiful it can be as well as how ugly things can turn with repeated, heavy usage. I don't care how this has happened. Maybe I've imagined every single one of my symptoms into existence. Either way, I was fine and now every aspect of my life is different... and i'm not the only one (not even in my friendship group.. nevermind bluelight). I think it's important for people to understand that MDMA CAN seriously fuck people up.

 

[swedger77]

Both posts above are very good.

I have to add that more people report their horrific experiences in the same way more people tend to write in and complain about bad service instead of drafting up a letter of thanks after good service.

Bluelight would be be an extremely boring place if everyone who enjoyed MDMA created a thread about their amazing time where they danced all night and bonded with friend like never before.

So yes, I do think there is an element of scaremongering when you have repeated tales of misery and physical and mental issues post MDMA use, collated all in on handy BLuelight forum.

Everything has to be kept in context. Imagine the volume of positive MDMA stories out there.

I have to agree with Vanbcwhen he said :-

I don't know FBC personally, but for anyone who has dealt with mental illness in friends or family - his opening lines are highly suggestive of an underlying psychological issue that goes far beyond MDMA or harm reduction. The long, rambling posts and the pleas to comfort grieving family members in the face of impending death are part and parcel of mental imbalance - and they have been effective in gathering a certain captive audience on Bluelight. The message and the following, as well meaning as they are, do not serve the interests of Bluelight or harm reduction in general.

^ 100% agree

When i read FBC post out to my girlfriend who is a mental health nurse she said he sounds like he has a mental disorder of some description. I don't normally read bluelight posts to my girlfriend, but she confirmed exactly what was going through my head when i was reading rambling multi diagnosing posts

 

[futura2012]

So yes, I do think there is an element of scaremongering when you have repeated tales of misery and physical and mental issues post MDMA use, collated all in on handy BLuelight forum.

I dont think its scaremongering at all. The stories you read on here serve to illustrate in regards to MDMA all is not necessarily fine and dandy. When you take the drug there are potential risks.

Scaremongering is a poor choice of word.

When i read FBC post out to my girlfriend who is a mental health nurse she said he sounds like he has a mental disorder of some description. I don't normally read bluelight posts to my girlfriend, but she confirmed exactly what was going through my head when i was reading rambling multi diagnosing posts

Impossible to diagnose in such a way.

FBCs posts are highly informative and often provide answers to people who are in a similiar situation themselves. Yes his posts are long and different to the norm but claiming they indicate a mental disorder is unfair.

 

[Maya]

I dont think its scaremongering at all. The stories you read on here serve to illustrate in regards to MDMA all is not necessarily fine and dandy. When you take the drug there are potential risks.

Scaremongering is a poor choice of word.



Impossible to diagnose in such a way.

FBCs posts are highly informative and often provide answers to people who are in a similiar situation themselves. Yes his posts are long and different to the norm but claiming they indicate a mental disorder is unfair.

I agree with Futura... As a matter of fact.. FBC has helped me as well and has answered some of my questions with regards to recovery so I totally disagree that he has a mental disorder... I find him very informative and a very proactive and smart person.

 

[xxxyakinikuxxx]

First, I'd like to say I hold no ill will towards swedger and vancbc and I appreciate your opinions. I do, however, have a few issues with your arguments.
1. Comparing mdxx to food allergies(I guess semen is a food for some people)-THIS is harm creation. Food allergies have nothing to do with dosage or usage patterns. Nor have these foods been shown to be neurotoxic. A false comparison.
2. Arguing that posting about how mdxx has harmed you ('fear-mongering') is inappropriate for BL, while at the same time using a person's posts to diagnose them with mental illness seems unfair and hypocritical.
3. Saying that writing personal accounts of mdxx-induced damage in an attempt to counterbalance reckless attitudes towards drugs serves no useful harm reduction purpose makes no sense at all. If someone reads these stories, understands the dangers, and alters their drug dosage and usage patterns as a result, how could this not be in the interest of harm reduction?

I understand if you don't enjoy/like these kinds of posts, but that's mostly because they're not applicable to your personal experience. Solution: don't read 'em.
But for a lot of other people they provide information as to what can go wrong from drug abuse as well as support for those already suffering. Maybe BL wasn't designed for 'commiserating' but is that something you want to take away from people struggling through an incredibly hard time in their lives? If you want to see more positive stories about mdma go ahead and write them. Nobody's stopping you. But in the meantime don't try and prevent people from telling their own experience.

 

[xxxyakinikuxxx]

Oh and dpd_mnk92, well said.

 

[Hapomen22]

Wow what a story! I remember a few of your posts from last year. Hmm, you just made me realize I had very strong fever last month... and it happened exactly like you said... 4days after the roll. Now this really scared me, I'll slow down my use for sure.

And that mental disorder thing, lol... people post and express themselves differently online then in real life, claiming someone has a mental problem from the way he expresses himself on the internet is fucking ridiculous.

 

[swedger77]

FBC has already said he had a mental health issue (well he diagnosed himself again) so excuse my girlfriend for jumping to the same conclusions after reading his massive original post.

FBC also suggests that reading up on problems or possible problems that could be attributed to his experience post MDMA use can be unhealthy. This is almost the point Im making.

My appetite for writing seemed insatiable.
Unlike most BL members, pages upon pages appeared in most of my posts.
I would later learn that loss of higher brain serotonin can cause a DE-inhibition of dopamine acitivity.
I was clinically psychotic, but since my 'research' was real it all made sense to me.

Looking back I recognize it was the amount of effort I put into it that made it unhealthy.

I the original post there are a few health issues that FBC detailed. I would that it is unlikely that these are all due to taking a few low content pills. Im NOT saying it is NOT the case, just unlikely and very very unlikely that others would experience the same. People must keep these horror stories in context.

Serotonin Syndrome
severe chest pain
tachycardia
severe abdominal pain
anxiety
migraine
fever
intestines were in severe pain
HPPD
psychotic
depression
Stroke
tinitus
vertigo
TIAs

 

[futura2012]

^^

I don't know FBC personally, but for anyone who has dealt with mental illness in friends or family - his opening lines are highly suggestive of an underlying psychological issue that goes far beyond MDMA or harm reduction. The long, rambling posts and the pleas to comfort grieving family members in the face of impending death are part and parcel of mental imbalance - and they have been effective in gathering a certain captive audience on Bluelight. The message and the following, as well meaning as they are, do not serve the interests of Bluelight or harm reduction in general.

You 100% agree with this ^^

This implies his opening lines, long posts, rambling and pleas to family members indicate a mental health issue.

It effectively belittles his posts.

You also remind us of how you wouldnt normally read out posts to your girlfriend but felt the need for the "mental health nurse" diagnostics.

Yes I am sure all long term comedown sufferers do suffer from some type of mental health issue but suggesting a mental health issue in the context of how someone writes to reinforce your argument for scaremongering is ridiculous.

MDMA has the potential to cause some very nasty long term comedowns fact. Sharing this information is essential for other sufferers and is an asset to bluelight. To make the argument that this type of post is not Harm Reduction is insane.

Just for the record my symptoms are:

Insomnia
HPPD
Panic Attacks
Anxiety
Shaking Hands
Depression
Memory Loss
Loss of Time
Confusion
Paranoia
Loss of Appetite & Thirst
Social Phobia
No Concentration

All this was caused by MDMA and Piperazine so I would say there is every possibility that someone else might be unfortunate enough to experience the same thing. So far this has lasted for 18 months so if just one person can avoid this type of thing from some of the things we share then all the better.

 

[dpd_mnk92]

excellent post

 

[Maya]

FBC I found a supplement that might be able to help you: http://www.globalvitamins.ca/products/VINPO.15.html. I went to the vitamin store yesterday and asked for supplements that might be able to help my brain recover faster.. I think you might want to read some info about this one.. I have the pamphlet here as well and it says that this has the ability to prevent the formation of blood clots, thereby reducing the risk of stroke.

 

[Folley]

^ If you start trying to pump your brain full of more chemicals (aka "supplements") you're going to slow down your recovery, seriously just stick to eating healthy and that will do 100x what ANY pill will EVER do.

 

[swedger77]

^^



You 100% agree with this ^^

This implies his opening lines, long posts, rambling and pleas to family members indicate a mental health issue.

It effectively belittles his posts.

You also remind us of how you wouldnt normally read out posts to your girlfriend but felt the need for the "mental health nurse" diagnostics.

Yes I am sure all long term comedown sufferers do suffer from some type of mental health issue but suggesting a mental health issue in the context of how someone writes to reinforce your argument for scaremongering is ridiculous.

Yes , I do agree that "long, rambling posts and the pleas to comfort grieving family members in the face of impending death" are part and parcel of underlying mental health issues. You agree that "long term comedown sufferers do suffer from some type of mental health issue".


Ok, I'll agree that "scaremongering" is not the perfect term for what Im saying.

def:- (scaremonger) a person who spreads frightening rumors and stirs up trouble. - OK this is not what Im saying. People are not making these posts detailing their misery and impending death to scare deliberately scare people and stir up trouble.

What Im trying to say (badly) is that these post can and do have a similar effect when inexperienced users read them then attribute any small negative changes in their well being to any of the symptoms listed above. This will no doubt cause these certain people anxiety about what they are experiencing which in turn can lead them to seek answers......they then read more bluelight posts and self diagnosing further......the cycle continues.


suggesting a mental health issue in the context of how someone writes to reinforce your argument for scaremongering is ridiculous

FBC had already stated (albeit another self diagnosis again) that he was clinically psychotic. Are we agreeing with him or not??

 

[futura2012]

FBC had already stated (albeit another self diagnosis again) that he was clinically psychotic. Are we agreeing with him or not??

Yes I agree he has suffered a period of psychotic episode. Do I accept that this or any other mental health condition is why his posts are long and contain self diagnostics no I dont. The long posts are just his style of writing. He has continued to write this style for the past two years of being on here. The content of his posts are a valuable asset to the BL community and he helps numerous fellow sufferers with detailed and thorough explaination.

What Im trying to say (badly) is that these post can and do have a similar effect when inexperienced users read them then attribute any small negative changes in their well being to any of the symptoms listed above. This will no doubt cause these certain people anxiety about what they are experiencing which in turn can lead them to seek answers......they then read more bluelight posts and self diagnosing further......the cycle continues.

MDMA can seriousley fuck you up that is fact. These posts are illustrations of what can potentially happen to you if you make the wrong turn. Having a bit of anxiety prior to choose to take something like MDMA is no bad thing as it makes you think. Hopefully it encourages people to test product and go easy on the doses and redoses. No bad thing in my opinion.

 

[swedger77]

MDMA can seriousley fuck you up that is fact. These posts are illustrations of what can potentially happen to you if you make the wrong turn.

99.9999% of people could repeat what FBC did and be ok. Let try and keep a sense of perspective about this.

Most drugs can fuck you up. What wrong turn did FBS make? He hardly abused MDMA to extremes. Every one reacts differently and has their own limits. Unfortunately for him MDMA turned out not be suitable for him.

 

[swedger77]

I had a rather severe reaction 3 days after taking too much MDMA on October 31st, 2010.

My appetite for writing seemed insatiable.
Unlike most BL members, pages upon pages appeared in most of my posts.
I would later learn that loss of higher brain serotonin can cause a DE-inhibition of dopamine acitivity.
I was clinically psychotic, but since my 'research' was real it all made sense to me.

Do I accept that this or any other mental health condition is why his posts are long and contain self diagnostics no I dont. The long posts are just his style of writing. He has continued to write this style for the past two years of being on here. The content of his posts are a valuable asset to the BL community and he helps numerous fellow sufferers with detailed and thorough explaination.

Im not going to say any more........as I don't think you have even read his opening post(ramble). He basically says from OCT 2010 (over 2 years) he was having a bit of a mental health episode and goes on to explain his long winded, over detailed posts were partly due to this.

I take on board these forums do need posts that are good, bad, indifferent, positive and negetive, but I hope everyone can keep things in perspective.

Statistically MDMA is a very safe drug.

 

[Maya]

IMO both of you guys have valid points but it all comes down to the person, some people are just more sensitive while others have high tolerance. I can definitely relate to FBC as I am also suffering from a bad comedown.. The anxiety and other symptoms are emotionally damaging but this does not mean that I nor FBC has serious mental issues. I believe that majority in this forum will agree that mdma when abused can have very bad consequences.