aMT death analysis

[peyoteshaman]

Whilst reading about amt, I came across two reported deaths. One was later shown to be false and no amt was involved. The second, seems to be linked to amt. I came across this report on the levels of amt in his body at the time of death but it doesn't make much sense to me. Does it give an idea of how much he had taken? I read on some news report (so this is not to be taken too seriously) that they had found an empty 1g vial next to his body. Anyway, here's the report

Abstract
In February 2003, the Miami-Dade County Medical Examiner Department reported the first known death in the country related to alpha-methyltryptamine (AMT). AMT is an indole analogue of amphetamine investigated in the 1960s as an antidepressant, stimulant, and monoamine oxidase inhibitor. Today, AMT is recognized as a powerful psychedelic drug among high school and college-aged men and women. Its popularity is partly due to the multitude of anecdotal websites discussing AMT as well as its legality and availability for purchase via the Internet prior to April 2003. Emergency designation of AMT as a Schedule 1 controlled substance by the Drug Enforcement Administration occurred shortly after the death in Miami-Dade County. The case in Miami involved a young college student who, prior to death, advised his roommate that he was "taking hallucinating drugs" and as a result had "discovered the secret of the universe". Approximately 12 h later, the roommate discovered the deceased lying in bed unresponsive. An empty 1-g vial of AMT was recovered from the scene and sent to the toxicology laboratory. Initial screening of urine by enzyme-multiplied immunoassay technique was positive for amphetamines, and the basic drug blood screen detected a small peak later identified by mass spectrometry as AMT. For quantitation, AMT was isolated using solid-phase extraction, derivatized with pentafluoropropionic anhydride, and analyzed using gas chromatography-mass spectrometry. Quantitative analysis was based upon m/z 276, 303, and 466 for AMT and m/z 306, 333, and 496 for the internal standard, 5-methoxy-alpha-methyltryptamine. A linear calibration curve from 50 to 500 ng/mL was used to calculate the concentration of AMT in the samples and controls. Blood, tissue, and gastric specimens were diluted to bring the observed concentration within the limits of the standard curve. Matrix matched controls were extracted and analyzed with each run. Postmortem iliac vein blood revealed 2.0 mg/L, gastric contents (48 g collected at autopsy) contained 9.6 mg total of AMT, liver contained 24.7 mg/kg, and the brain contained 7.8 mg/kg. An additional Medical Examiner case from another jurisdiction revealed 1.5 mg/L in antemortem serum.



Whilst looking this up I came across a Daily Mail (so i'm vary wary of the report) article blaming amt for another death http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...arrested-supplying-controlled-substances.html

I notice their language is pretty non-committal and this article made no mention of it. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/9917411.Drugs_charges_follow_death_of_trainee_doctor/

Am I the only one who's sick of tabloid papers jumping the gun and blaming a research chemical for a death without any evidence? Besides, I'd guess that most of the legal high deaths came from people mixing their drug with alcohol/other drugs or taking way too much.

 

[Ismene]

I wouldn't trust any reports like that as far as I could kick the reporter/cop/judge who "blamed" the drug. It's like the big mephedrone scare - there was a big police conference where they announced someone had died from taking mephedrone and this meant the drug must be banned immediately. Turned out he'd taken methadone.

 

[sekio]

I would bet he'd ingested between 100 and 1000mg AMT... but it's hard to tell.

 

[Black]

i haven't found anything for the pharmacokinetics or amt (there's not even bioavailibility data; it was marketed in the soviet union a few decades ago, maybe the data is out there but in russian?), but judging by the numbers they found the dose must have been huge. using average amounts of blood and average weights for liver and brain and not considering the stomach content, they add up to 60mg. a sizeable portion of the amt should already have been metabolised and there's a lot of interstitial fluid and a lot of other organs where some of the amt is "hiding" from their analysis, so i'd suspect that the person in question had really taken the whole contents of that one gram vial at once.

 

[peyoteshaman]

Do you think there's anyone on blue light who's good with chemistry/medicine and could work these figures out?

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Jesus! That's some dose. Sad to think that a drug which, so far, doesn't seem to have killed anyone in it's 50+ years of use could be banned based on some sensationalist news coverage.

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I wouldn't trust any reports like that as far as I could kick the reporter/cop/judge who "blamed" the drug. It's like the big mephedrone scare - there was a big police conference where they announced someone had died from taking mephedrone and this meant the drug must be banned immediately. Turned out he'd taken methadone.

I remember that. When methedrone was actually involved, the media always forgot to mention that they'd also drank 5 pints or taken something else or taken far too much.

atara edit: consolidated posts

 

[TryptamineBunny]

Also anything you read in the Daily Fail is bound to be inaccurate and paid to be so from donors with vested interests.

 

[atara]

Initial screening of urine by enzyme-multiplied immunoassay technique was positive for amphetamines,

Incidentally, this means one of two things: either this guy took amphetamines with his AMT (a good way to kill yourself if I've ever heard of one), or AMT will react on ELISA drug tests, that is, standard drug screens, as a false positive for amphetamine. Since there is no later mention of amphetamines anywhere in his body, I'm going to put my money on the second possibility.

Also I would like to point out that discussion of drug testing qua passing and failing actual drug tests is still banned and will remain banned.

 

[Solipsis]

Toxicology is pretty much ADD territory I would say, even if there isn't much to go on here, or so it seems.

Since amphetamine is in the backbone of the structural formula of aMT, I would also suggest that it was a false positive (well, false depending on how you look at it).

PD >> ADD

 

[peyoteshaman]

Interesting stuff. It seems the guy must have had no idea of dosage for aMT. Deaths like this simply wouldn't have to happen if RC vendors were allowed to put safety details on the packaging of their product.

 

[Si Dread]

"Not For Human Consumption" offers a fair amount of safety information, don't you think?

In reality, yes it would be nice if things were a bit more out in the open regarding RC's, but if someone just buys a gram of aMT & swallows it ALL without looking up ANYTHING about aMT on the internet, well, who's fault would that be, really?

 

[peyoteshaman]

"Not For Human Consumption" offers a fair amount of safety information, don't you think?

In reality, yes it would be nice if things were a bit more out in the open regarding RC's, but if someone just buys a gram of aMT & swallows it ALL without looking up ANYTHING about aMT on the internet, well, who's fault would that be, really?

I think its fair to say that no one ever has, or ever will, fall for the "Not for human consumption" line.
Yes, it's too bad that he didn't do any research but the vendor should also be allowed to provide safety information. If you bought a car, you'd want to see the instruction manual before using.

 

[Si Dread]

Amusing analogy... given the number of complete imbeciles who appear to own & drive cars in this day & age!

I agree that it would be ideal if vendors were able to offer advice on their products & I'm sure many ignore the law to do so. But while these products aren't supposed to be "For Human Consumption" the onus remains on the user of any Research Chemical, illegal or borderline-legal drug to fully appraise him or herslf with the effects BEFORE buying it or trying it.

Would you buy something off a drug dealer & trust HIS information about it? I sure as hell wouldn't! In fact, I distrust anything & anyone which/who hasn't proven reliable on multiple occassions.

aMT is a RESEARCH Chemical & the really important part of that phrase is that in capitals! The three "R"'s of Research Chemicals are Research, RESEARCH, RESEARCH!

 

[i are spectre]

Incidentally, this means one of two things: either this guy took amphetamines with his AMT (a good way to kill yourself if I've ever heard of one), or AMT will react on ELISA drug tests, that is, standard drug screens, as a false positive for amphetamine. Since there is no later mention of amphetamines anywhere in his body, I'm going to put my money on the second possibility.

Also I would like to point out that discussion of drug testing qua passing and failing actual drug tests is still banned and will remain banned.

i am curious why you say that a combination of aMT and amphetamine is "a good way to kill yourself".

could you be a little more specific to the reasons? is this based on the fact that AMT is just a very strong pschedelic or are there physiological issues? thanks!

 

[peyoteshaman]

Amusing analogy... given the number of complete imbeciles who appear to own & drive cars in this day & age!

I agree that it would be ideal if vendors were able to offer advice on their products & I'm sure many ignore the law to do so. But while these products aren't supposed to be "For Human Consumption" the onus remains on the user of any Research Chemical, illegal or borderline-legal drug to fully appraise him or herslf with the effects BEFORE buying it or trying it.

Would you buy something off a drug dealer & trust HIS information about it? I sure as hell wouldn't! In fact, I distrust anything & anyone which/who hasn't proven reliable on multiple occassions.

aMT is a RESEARCH Chemical & the really important part of that phrase is that in capitals! The three "R"'s of Research Chemicals are Research, RESEARCH, RESEARCH!

Maybe people would be able to fully appraise themselves with the effects if the vendor provided them? Ideally, we'd all research erowid or ask questions on this before trying an RC but the sad fact is that many people wont so we might as well provide information to them with the product.

Also, a drug dealer and rc vendor could be totally different if vendors were allowed to provide info. They're registered businesses and could be properly regulated. Black market dealers can't.

 

[Solipsis]

Come now, aMT has been prescribed as an anti-depressant albeit in Russia, how many "research chemicals" do you know you can say that about? Granted, they stopped prescribing it, but AFAIK that was because of abuse potential and all the tripping grannies not because of severe health concerns.

The term 'Research Chemical' arbitrarily used for compounds that are sold for another purpose (e.g. plant food) to avoid legal issues and/or to indicate that the compound is novel and that it can be sold that way because it was designed to be an analogue that has not been banned yet.

The latter may suggest a lack of proper history in humans nor studies/research on the substance, the former says virtually nothing about the substance and that is the case with aMT here.

Whatever the label said when the aMT was sold that killed a person, the designator 'research chemical' does not explain anything about why that person died. There are RCs that are apparently relatively safe or harmless, and there are drugs with a long record that are considered to have medical applications that can kill lots of people.

This is not about advocating for or against "research chemicals". Instead why don't you pay attention to what the compound does? That is what matters.

And I am also wondering about the same thing 'I are spectre' asked about ^.

 

[Black]

^
exactly. amt has been around for at least as long as mdma.

 

[Si Dread]

I'm trying to get at WHY anyone wouldn't thoroughly investigate in any available manor any drugs action regardless of whether or not it's classed an RC, a completely illegal drug or an ex-medication, such as is the case with aMT.

Also, a drug dealer and rc vendor could be totally different if vendors were allowed to provide info. They're registered businesses and could be properly regulated. Black market dealers can't.

While this ideal is unrealised surely for the sake of HR we must push the onus onto the end user of ANY drug unlicensed for medical use to educate them own selfs! I would never argue that a legal market would not be safer, of course it will... That doesn't change the fact that a ton of aMT info exists out there & I honestly in my mind cannot see any reason why this information wasn't used to reduce the risk of fatality! It makes no sense that a person would just buy & swallow that much Psychedelic stimulant with absoutely NO idea what they are doing. It's a senseless loss of life in my opinion.

 

[i are spectre]

unfortunately a lot of people are going to synthesize these things using very poor practices. with more precursors being scheduled, this forces many to find new ways to create these chems. without proper and considerate care, these practices can easily leave behind nasty chemicals (mercury, organic solvents, etc) which those themselves could lead to some serious health issues. i also doubt every possible toxin is screened for when a friend tells the health professionals it was 'some research chemical'. so the blame is put on whatever was spoken of that night, and not the left over reaction products.

 

[sekio]

these practices can easily leave behind nasty chemicals (mercury, organic solvents, etc) which those themselves could lead to some serious health issues

and we all now all natural products are totally safe and never contain toxins or impurities

in all seriousness though, part of chemistry is learning to migitate the risk of this kind of stuff. toxic solvents? remove by distillation. mercury salt? reduce it to metal and wash it out. anyone doing this as a serious money- or drug-making venture has it in their best interest to make a best-effort synthesis.

and believe it or not, most reagents used in organic synthesis today are actually less toxic than you would expect (esp. when neutralised)

really what this boils down to is, unless you can independently verify what you are consuming and its purity, don't eat compounds that are basically marked "do not eat me". that is why they are labeled "do not eat me".

it also could be the case (suprising i know) that the kid just ate a huge overdose of amt. thats happened before and it will happen again.

 

[i are spectre]

relax man, i didnt say "natural" products are safe, i am just giving some reasons why many reports are simply not good for conclusive evidence on research chemical toxicity... in all seriousness. impurities should not be forgotten, whether its a dash of organic or a pinch of chromium.

so how toxic do i expect organo-reagents to be anyway?