EADD Theology Megathread

[NightsEpiphany]

Knock...He wants attention.


Pagey, the first sentence means you either plagiarised Marshmallow being and Spaghetti Monster.. or innocently, unconsciously reeled them out Plagey Pagey :D

Marshmallow Man.. http://hollywoodhatesme.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/staypuft_marshmallow_man.jpg

( i've lost the dopey password to photobucket sorry)

NSFW:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

I havn't finished doh... hold up...I've got to leave it there for an hour or so... sorry in the middle of a reply.

 

[rickolasnice]

NightsEpiphany.. You say God loves the world passionately..

If you loved someone but never let them know you existed.. would you punish them horribly for not acting in the way you wanted them to? (Remembering you are going to suffer for an eternity for this "crime".. and that's ignoring the horror that God, apparently, exposes to us humans every day, over and over, and over again).. Doesn't sound like love to me.

God created the perfect creature (humans) in his image (gods)..

Yet we are clearly "imperfect" in the eyes of God.. and biologically..

But are you saying that God also has these "impure" thoughts?

 

[rickolasnice]

Knock...He wants attention.

Yes.. God does apparently want our attention.. Shame he hasn't spoken to anyone in thousands of years.. That would be a good start.

NSFW:

Then Jehoiada made a covenant between himself and the king and the people that they would be the LORD's people. And all the people went over to the temple of Baal and tore it down. They demolished the altars and smashed the idols, and they killed Mattan the priest of Baal in front of the altars. (2 Chronicles 23:16-17)

Then Moses said, 'Anyone who will not listen to that Prophet will be cut off from God's people and utterly destroyed.' (Acts 3:23 NLT)

Our ancestors were unfaithful and did what was evil in the sight of the LORD our God. They abandoned the LORD and his Temple; they turned their backs on him. They also shut the doors to the Temple's foyer, and they snuffed out the lamps. They stopped burning incense and presenting burnt offerings at the sanctuary of the God of Israel. That is why the LORD's anger has fallen upon Judah and Jerusalem. He has made us an object of dread, horror, and ridicule, as you can so plainly see. Our fathers have been killed in battle, and our sons and daughters and wives are in captivity. But now I will make a covenant with the LORD, the God of Israel, so that his fierce anger will turn away from us. My dear Levites, do not neglect your duties any longer! The LORD has chosen you to stand in his presence, to minister to him, and to lead the people in worship and make offerings to him. (2 Chronicles 29:6-11 NLT)

For four days Maccabeus and his men eagerly besieged the fortress. Those inside, relying on the strength of the place, kept repeating outrageous blasphemies and uttering abominable words. When the fifth day dawned, twenty young men in the army of Maccabeus, angered over such blasphemies, bravely stormed the wall and with savage fury cut down everyone they encountered. Others who climbed up the same way swung around on the defenders, taking the besieged in the rear; they put the towers to the torch, spread the fire and burned the blasphemers alive. Still others broke down the gates and let in the rest of the troops, who took possession of the city. Timothy had hidden in a cistern, but they killed him, along with his brother Chaereas, and Apollophanes. On completing these exploits, they blessed, with hymns of grateful praise, the Lord who shows great kindness to Israel and grants them victory. (2 Maccabees 10:33-38 NAB)

The anger of God rose against them, and he killed their strongest men; he struck down the finest of Israel's young men. But in spite of this, the people kept on sinning. They refused to believe in his miracles. So he ended their lives in failure and gave them years of terror. When God killed some of them, the rest finally sought him. They repented and turned to God. (Psalms 78:31-34 NLT)

If anyone rebels against your orders and does not obey every command you give him, he shall be put to death. But be firm and steadfast. (Joshua 1:18 NAB)

There's many more examples but I need a shower

 

[Myshkin]

It says all over the bible He was jealous for Israel even doesn't it? ( but she was unfaithful to Him over and over again)

No it doesn't. It basically says "Hebrews - behave or I will smite thee". Typical vengeful, patriarchal, middle-eastern deity schtick.

Sometimes words or phrases don't translate favourably either though...

Well, we agree on one thing. The Septuagint is certainly very different (in ways both subtle and not-so-subtle) to the manuscripts it was cribbed from. Not that I care much for said texts, but if authenticity's your bag, 'The Bible' is a joke. The world's most redacted text. Fact.

Jesus actually said

Did he? That's what's in the scripture, but there's no evidence that those were his actual words, so you can't assert boldly that 'Jesus said' anything. Scripture attributes those words to him. That's it. No other evidence.

Again, you're positing your own interpretation of scripture as the only valid one. That's dogma. And that's the reason why engaging people like yourself or Rasta2000 (whatever his name is) in any kind of debate is futile - you're steeped in dogma. Worse still, it's a dogma of your own making, and usually self-serving to boot.

This thread is so fucking stupid.

 

[Pagey]

Knock...He wants attention.


Pagey, the first sentence means you either plagiarised Marshmallow being and Spaghetti Monster.. or innocently, unconsciously reeled them out Plagey Pagey :D

Marshmallow Man.. http://hollywoodhatesme.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/staypuft_marshmallow_man.jpg

( i've lost the dopey password to photobucket sorry)

NSFW:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

I havn't finished doh... hold up.

Spaghetti monster yes. But I was talking about a fluffy marshmallow kingdom. Hence it was completely my idea

@Myshkin I dunno, I highly doubt I'm gonna be convinced by anything I read here but I think it's entertaining anyway.

 

[The Liberal Media]

David Icke on Dawkins.
Dave your a fucking genius

"The NWO knows] how reality works and they want to make sure that their target population never does. Religion was their major vehicle for this through the ages and then 'science' came forward to play its crucial role in suppressing the truth. The party line in the 'science' establishment is that the world is solid and physical and there is no 'afterlife'. Anything to do with the so-called 'paranormal' is condemned or ridiculed by the programmed, often malevolent, 'experts' wheeled out to debunk views, experiences and research that demolish the manufactured myopia that is mainstream 'science'. Ironically, most of what is accepted as scientific 'fact' turns out to be simply assumption and not fact at all. This includes, indeed especially so, Charles Darwin's 'natural selection' or 'survival of the fittest'. As João Magueijo, the Portuguese cosmologist and Professor in Theoretical Physics at Imperial College London, said: ' ... most science is just a theory and is not motivated by existing observations crying out for an explanation.' He also rightly observed: 'It seems to me that contradicting textbook wisdom is only heresy for those who have learnt it from the text book.'

It is quite a sight to see 'experts', like Professor Richard Dawkins at Oxford University, trying to discredit anything that doesn't fit with their concrete belief-system. He condemns religion while being an evangelist for his own - the religion of this-world-is-all-there-is. Dawkins ridicules the 'God religions', but doesn't realise that he is a leading voice of the 'no-God religion'. He is the High Priest and Chief Zealot of the religion called 'Scientism' and he is desperate to debunk anything that could question his intellectual pre-eminence. Dawkins targets with religious zeal those who challenge the omnipotence of mainstream science. I have seen him close up during a debate at the Oxford Union, and also on his television programmes, attempting to debunk alternative healing and the 'paranormal'. I see fear in his eyes for some reason and almost a sense of panic and desperation. The thought that he could be wrong seems to terrify him, but surely he must know by now that he has been talking bollocks for decades. If he doesn't, given the evidence available, it's a real head-shaker. Where has he been? It is the legions of mind-made, song-sheet scientists like Dawkins that man the barricades whenever the party line is under threat. They are gatekeepers who seek to impose their own ignorance upon the masses. A few of them, and certainly those who run the institutions, know what they’re doing, but most have just been programmed by the system to program others.

[..]

The university system, elite or otherwise, is ever more irrelevant, ever more in retreat from the cutting edge. There is a revolution of perception going on and the isolated intellect simply can't see it, nor can it see how ignorant the religion of intellectualism really is. How is mainstream science ever going to understand reality when it is populated by 'scientists' filtering everything through a left-brain that can only perceive sequence, time and apartness? It never is and it was never meant to. The idea is to keep people from the truth about reality and the human condition by keeping that knowledge from science. It is the head/heart scientists who are at the cutting edge, not the regular bunch personified by people like Professor Richard Dawkins. He's the Darwinism groupie at Oxford University who targets his nose-in-the-air bile and ridicule at anyone who has another view of reality beyond the edges of his postage stamp. He condemns religion and yet he is the high-priest of his own - Scientism, the belief that only mainstream science has the truth and anything else is blasphemy. I once appeared with him at the Oxford Union years ago. It was like debating with concrete on legs. He didn't like me; I can't think why. The whole Darwinist nonsense, which takes the creator out of Creation, was carefully calculated to indoctrinate a mass perception of life with no purpose, one in which we are mere accidents of 'evolution' and life's a bitch and then you die. It still dominates the collective mind of what is bravely called 'science'.

As with medicine, law and education, so the closed-world of mainstream science is structured to repel all boarders who threaten to breach the dam that passes for its perception. One method is to attack alternative approaches to healing and condemn them as ' crackpot' or 'dangerous', but what could be more crackpot and dangerous to human health than chemotherapy? The science establishment presses for new laws to 'protect' people from alternatives while pursuing policies and technologies that are potentially lethal to both people and planet. Scientists who buck the establishment and seek knowledge through an open mind find their funding and job opportunities disappear. Talk to some of those scientists who have challenged the orthodoxy of global warming, for a start. It is the carrot and stick again and it is used across the entire system to keep dissenters in line and truth in the closet."

 

[Myshkin]

Richard Dawkins is a great biologist who unfortunately thinks far too much of himself and makes cringeworthy forays into theological commentary and criticism without any knowledge of (or grounding in) theology. Or history for that matter. Though it sells books to people who fancy themselves as clever.

My jaw still drops at the fact he summarised the Northern Ireland situation as a straightforward religious conflict. Erm, Richard, shut up and do some reading.

But we don't need David Fucking Icke to tell us that. Anyone with half a brain can see that the New Inquisition has supplanted religious hegemony. People like Icke just harm the cause of those who take a more moderate, skeptical (dare-I-say 'scientific'?) approach to questioning the more rigid materialist-rationalist belief systems.

 

[rickolasnice]

OK.. I've only read the first bit so far but..

David Icke is a fckin idiot..

This bit stood out for me:

most science is just a theory and is not motivated by existing observations crying out for an explanation.

There is a huge difference between how we would use the word theory and what it actually means in science..

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of knowledge that has been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment.

David Icke says that science is just assumptions.. not so.. Please read the quote above..

The only other alternative to Scientific theory and laws are.. assumptions based on fuck all.

I'll carry on..

The next paragraph is complete bollocks targeting Richard Dawkings.. It seems that the writer of it is trying to discredit Dawkings by projecting untrue assumptions upon him based on how he looks..

I see fear in his eyes for some reason and almost a sense of panic and desperation. The thought that he could be wrong seems to terrify him, but surely he must know by now that he has been talking bollocks for decades. If he doesn't, given the evidence available, it's a real head-shaker

No.. The thought of him being wrong doesn't "terrify" him. He's just getting pissed off talking to ignorant wanks that know nothing.

Talking bollocks? Again.. read the definition of scientific theory.. So.. What is the alternative to scientific theory? Complete bollocks based on fck all.. that's what.

I'll come back to the rest later.. But Icke makes a lot of money off of naive so and so's..

 

[The Liberal Media]

He is a bit off with his Moon Matrix malarkey , but for the most part I tend to admire what David Icke talks about, and the fact that he has the courage to do so.

His reptilian agenda DVD is simply mindblowing.
And he is spot on , Most science is fucking theory and Dawkins is a bitter twisted old man who just loves the sound of his own voice

 

[rickolasnice]

^ Ahem.. did you read the defintion of scientific theory vs normal use of the word theory?

Icke is a bitter twisted, foolish, ignorant idiot of an old man who just loves the sound of his own voice]

Fixed.

Don't get me wrong.. Some of what Icke says I cannot deny (the only think i can think of right now is bohemian grove being fucked up) but as a whole he gets his fingers in every "alternative" pie he can to make a quick buck.. he's scum.

 

[NightsEpiphany]

Hmm? I'm confused by your first sentence. What do you mean? (oh, was that about the spaghetti monster thing? I know I didn't invent that one but I'm the one who came up with the marshmallow and hot men thingy )
I've actually got proof of what I said hehe, it's in my coursepack (behold, I'm actually gonna quote some of the Bible): Jesus, from the 'Sermon on the Mount': "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you. That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee"...and lol I just realised I'm quoting what you did, just not as recent English.
Anyway: how does this not shock you?! You're being asked to mutilate yourself for thoughts you can't control seeing as lust isn't controllable. You're being asked to mutilate yourself based on the unproven existence of a fiery pit after death. Idk I mean this just screams everything but happiness/peace/understanding etc. to me.

And I'm confused re. God being jealous. Isn't jealousy/envy a deadly sin...? That seems very hypocritical.

Thank you for the compliment about my writing btw, that's very nice of you my book basically chronicles the lives of two heroin addicts and tries to address the stigma surrounding addiction, and heroin addiction in particular. It also touches a lot on morality, depression and that sort of thing.

how does this not shock you?! You're being asked to mutilate yourself for thoughts you can't control seeing as lust isn't controllable. You're being asked to mutilate yourself based on the unproven existence of a fiery pit after death. Idk I mean this just screams everything but happiness/peace/understanding etc. to me.

I'd be glad to look for a passage from Paradise Lost that illustates what I meant - I'll have to get back to you on that one though because I've lent my copy to a friend. Will post it in the next few days.

Allo.. I just read your marshmallow post and agree its not plagiarised. So apologies for that..

I addressed the 'poke your eye out if it causes you to sin' in one of the previous posts I think. Its a metaphorical statement, although if I had to poke my eye out if it was causing me to do anything offensive to God I would. I've been so broken by the sight of my sin and the appalling witness it gave, Pagey, I nearly cracked up over it.. It certainly broke me. I also had a vision of hell that shook me rigid.

how does this not shock you?! You're being asked to mutilate yourself for thoughts you can't control seeing as lust isn't controllable. You're being asked to mutilate yourself based on the unproven existence of a fiery pit after death. Idk I mean this just screams everything but happiness/peace/understanding etc. to me.

So it doesn't shock me because its saying get rid of attachments that are causing greed, lust etc.

'Lust isn't controllable?' Maybe not by us in our own strength.. especially if we've been around or looking at the object/s of lust. But we are under grace so are given the mind of Christ.

For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. 1 cor 2.16

We are also instructed to take captive every thought in the Power of Christ. Its a war and we are given spiritual armour and weapons to accomplish the will of God.. Victory's over the darkness of sin and ignorance awaken me to understanding and this does bring me peace and happiness. Again these victory's are won through Christ in the new nature. I've known these truths for years, read the scriptures re battling and dare I say it 'being born again'..but they have recently come to life very powerfully for me.

The vision I had was excruciating. I've used a lot of hallucinogenics and dissociatives and had experienced other planes or realms.. but this was terrifying. I don't know if there is a firey pit or if its a metaphor... there are semantic debates inevitably around the concept of hell. The place I found my self was like the dryest, scorched desert.. but in my neighbourhood. Its like the water on the earth had evaporated and God 'felt' far away Fear seemed to permeate the atmosphere like oxygen. Bloody aweful .. I got back and I was so grateful that I have the promises of God that that or anything like it wont be my final destination.

Of course its a subjective experience. I may have interpreted it incorrectly and it doesn't serve as evidence of a hell realm. It probably seems far fetched to some of you..even so I just pray none of you ever experience a place like that. I also pray that God will enable me to be clear in the way I communicate this subject.. I'm going to trust God for such a miracle.

 

[Myshkin]

'Lust isn't controllable?' Maybe not by us in our own strength.. especially if we've been around or looking at the object/s of lust. But we are under grace so are given the mind of Christ.

I could ask why you believe lust should be controlled at all, and if so, to what degree? And furthermore, to what end?

But instead I'd like to give this fruitless, circular, bad joke of a thread the wide berth it deserves, and nominate the highlighted section of your post for the inaugural EADD 'Vague, Nebulous Twaddle Of The Year' award.

 

[NightsEpiphany]

that was 1 corinthians 2 16..your highlighted bit. God is able to control lust.

I'd like to thank my fans, my agent....my Dad. Madonna and all the girls at Burger King Windsor, the police force who patrol this area constantly...

I'd prefer if you would post some constructive criticism in future Myshkin. Or just dont read them if it makes you feel like gouging your eyes out n that. Sarcasm is beneath you.

 

[rickolasnice]

NE.. I'd like to get your opinion on my opinion of peoples opinion on what "Jesus" or "Jehovah" said or did..

NE.. Were you raised a Christian?

I'd also like to point out to EADD (but especially NE) that you have ignored everything I'd said..

 

[Raasyvibe]

Who wouldn't fancy ya. Yella

I only have eyes for the Baby Jesus though. I'd nail him like he's never been nailed before

Oh he is devilish, that Shambles, isn't he?

You may get a laugh out of knock. I'd be more impressed if you could be more constructive and stump someone with some fine theology.

Did he? That's what's in the scripture, but there's no evidence that those were his actual words, so you can't assert boldly that 'Jesus said' anything. Scripture attributes those words to him. That's it. No other evidence.

Again, you're positing your own interpretation of scripture as the only valid one. That's dogma. And that's the reason why engaging people like yourself or Rasta2000 (whatever his name is) in any kind of debate is futile - you're steeped in dogma. Worse still, it's a dogma of your own making, and usually self-serving to boot.

This thread is so fucking stupid

Well, as the theory goes; Christiannity is a religion of truth. And inspired by God.

So I don't think God would choose a bunch of liars to write their stories on Jesus. If you believe in God, it's just common sense really.

For the record, atheists all over this thread speak as if their interpretation is the only valid one. Hundreds of examples if you read back. I don't see you complaining at them now do I?

But instead I'd like to give this fruitless, circular, bad joke of a thread the wide berth it deserves, and nominate the highlighted section of your post for the inaugural EADD 'Vague, Nebulous Twaddle Of The Year' award.

*yawn*

This is so puerile. Just because someones beliefs differ from yours, doesn't neccessarily make them stupid. That's just your own self-fulfilling delusion.

If you're so much above the thread, please enlighten us with your superior knowledge of theology. You must have some astounding knowledge surely. Judging by your first posts in regard of your bible knowledge, I don't think you're really achieving this yet.

I appreciate you've done a fair amount of reading up on theologians, and could probably make a good contribution to the thread ... but your attitude on the matter just stinks... you're up there with Dawkins, when it comes to stinky attitudes.

If I was as immature as you, I'd hand you a inaugural EADD 'Stinkiest Attitude Of The Thread' award.

OT is mans depiction of God..

So.. Noahs ark never happened? Adam and Eve never happened? The creation never happened? What about the talking snake and the talking donkey?

I didn't think you'd take to the answer regarding the OT.... anyway to answer your questions:

It seems the meaning behind these stories is the important thing. How true they actually are, is another question...

For instance, the bible says world was created in 7 days. It clearly wasn't created in 7 precise 24 hour periods. You gotta be pretty daft to deny evolution. So I think it's fair to say that the bible was not meant to be a scientific journal.

The important thing is if someone can learn from the stories and gain some wisdom or understanding of God. This will become their validity.

Why did Jesus not sort out the fact from fiction in the OT then? Jesus himself tells his followers to follow the Tanakh (which is almost exactly the same as the (or is it actually the) old testament).. None of the bible was actually written by Jesus and much of it was written long after his death.. so is the New Testament not also mans depiction of God? Again.. You cherry pick what you want to believe.

I believe in Jesus and all the writings in the NT that transpired because of him. As a believer of Jesus I have to go along with him and not obey the added ceremonial rules of the OT and the barbaric verses written by man. That's not cherry picking; it's just being practical.

I guess if Jesus personally re-edited the OT... it would then negate all the passages where he is defying the law.

It's like I said.. people cherry pick what bits were true and which were misinterpretations..

Agreed. However there are some who do their study properly and actually make sense of it. If you research into it properly, it does work out and become a great book of spiritual knowledge.

"No man ever believes the bible means what it says: he is always convinced it says what he means."

Again I agree. But in this example this is you, you're convinced it's nonsense... and don't seem to have any interest in accepting the validity behind it.

@Shambles.. I've noticed almost all christians do this. It seems as though instead of answering a question fully, they pile on a load of (normally completely irrelevant) bible info.. as if to dodge the question / point and confuse.

Erm, not seen it in this thread. If it's happened please show me.

And it goes 2 ways, I read of a lot of atheists responses that are pretty pathetic. On this thread. But I don't get on a high horse about it, and try and feel all superior with other Christians about it.

Not all Christians who post on forums are expected to be expert theologians. The bible is a pretty big book if you hadn't noticed. But I certainly don't think it's fair to rule all christians as trying to dodge questions. I've tried to answer as much as I can in this thread, I even got told off by shambles for making my posts too long.

And, oh yes raas.. Please point me in the direction of a piece of evidence that suggests there is a God.

Problem is, God gave us a choice to ignore him... so if he's provable by physical evidence, the whole thing falls on itself, doesn't it. What's my evidence? Love of life, really. I guess I see it all around me... My friends, my family, those I love and the precious moments I've experienced with them... The love I experience in visiting amazing places. The beauty all around us. This of course is not empirical proof. It cannot be... you have to give everyone else the choice to ignore God, remember?

But I say unto you. That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee"...and lol I just realised I'm quoting what you did, just not as recent English.
Anyway: how does this not shock you?! You're being asked to mutilate yourself for thoughts you can't control seeing as lust isn't controllable.

Well, if you read a little more in the gospels... then you'll see Jesus usually talks in parables and uses hyperboles. In the verse you quoted he is differentiating between the material and immaterial. The material being the mortal body, and the immaterial being your soul which goes to heaven. There is emphasis on the insignificance of the material.

How could this be translated today? I dunno....erm..... If you were addicted to sick porn videos... which were affecting your relationship with God..... better to throw the DVD player away and cancel your internet subscription than feed your dark interests, which could lead to some further spiritual turmoil.

 

[Pagey]

^Yeah but there's a slight difference between throwing away a DVD player and gauging your eyes out no?
Just like there's a difference between actually taking the step towards watching porn (if we're gonna continue with that analogy) and having a sudden uncontrollable thought about someone else.

Have taken oxys so am unable to answer you and NE right now (I'll try to tomorrow but it just took me about 5mn to write out those 3 lines) but I just needed to point that out.

 

[Raasyvibe]

^Yeah but there's a slight difference between throwing away a DVD player and gauging your eyes out no?

.

Indeed. Which is why I said to you

then you'll see Jesus usually talks in parables and uses hyperboles

Though saying that. I think the grim analogy is to emphasise the awfulness of hell, and the importance of ending sin. "Chuck away your DVD player" isn't so emphatic really?

NE, gave you a good personal understanding of hell, which may shed light on why the verse sounds a bit drastic.

"I've been so broken by the sight of my sin and the appalling witness it gave, Pagey, I nearly cracked up over it.. It certainly broke me. I also had a vision of hell that shook me rigid"

It's important to understand in light of hell, the flesh which does not pass through is inconsequential.

The vision I had was excruciating. I've used a lot of hallucinogenics and dissociatives and had experienced other planes or realms.. but this was terrifying. I don't know if there is a firey pit or if its a metaphor... there are semantic debates inevitably around the concept of hell. The place I found my self was like the dryest, scorched desert.. but in my neighbourhood. Its like the water on the earth had evaporated and God 'felt' far away Fear seemed to permeate the atmosphere like oxygen. Bloody aweful .. I got back and I was so grateful that I have the promises of God that that or anything like it wont be my final destination.

While we're on the subject of visions of hell while on drugs, I'll add my own highly subjective story.

Was on shrooms once. For the first and last time. Was skipping through town merrily, and then went into some woods. It was daylight, and wasn't hallucinating at this point. Then in the woods a white ghost appeared in front of me. It was the spirit of a person. As soon as I saw that person I was struck with this feeling of great sadness. I was staring at the white spirit floating by a tree and was overcome with this aura of sadness. Had to then leave the woods.

I've always wondered if this is an indication of hell. It's been theorized in many theologian books (William Clarke) that the consequence of sin is inseperable to guilt. That actions of evil on this planet and neglection of what is right leads to a negative spirituallity in the next.

(I accept this could easily have been a weird shrooms trip and nothing to pay attention too, but twas certainly interesting, hence i share)

 

[Shambles]

Though saying that. I think the grim analogy is to emphasise the awfulness of hell, and the importance of ending sin.

Then why create "sin" in the first place? 8)

 

[rickolasnice]

Well, as the theory goes; Christiannity is a religion of truth. And inspired by God.

So I don't think God would choose a bunch of liars to write their stories on Jesus. If you believe in God, it's just common sense really.

So the OT must be true? It's not like God would choose a bunch of liars to write their stories about him.

For the record, atheists all over this thread speak as if their interpretation is the only valid one. Hundreds of examples if you read back. I don't see you complaining at them now do I?

When validating whether a belief or hypothesis.. It's important to use a lil something called evidence.

I didn't think you'd take to the answer regarding the OT.... anyway to answer your questions:

It seems the meaning behind these stories is the important thing. How true they actually are, is another question...

For instance, the bible says world was created in 7 days. It clearly wasn't created in 7 precise 24 hour periods. You gotta be pretty daft to deny evolution. So I think it's fair to say that the bible was not meant to be a scientific journal.

There we go again.. Cherry picking apart the bible.. seeing the bible as you wish to see it..

The important thing is if someone can learn from the stories and gain some wisdom or understanding of God. This will become their validity.
I believe in Jesus and all the writings in the NT that transpired because of him. As a believer of Jesus I have to go along with him and not obey the added ceremonial rules of the OT and the barbaric verses written by man. That's not cherry picking; it's just being practical.

But the NT was written by man.. some men that could never have even met Jesus.. The OT isn't (supposed to be) Man's guess work of God wishes ya know? They are stories of men that spoke to God.. God is quoted many many times.. Again.. You are cherry picking the bible apart

"I believe in Jesus but Jesus' story isn't compatible to the OT so the OT must be wrong because *insert whatever reason sounds best to you here*"

I guess if Jesus personally re-edited the OT... it would then negate all the passages where he is defying the law.

Would have been easier (and made more sense) to throw out the whole thing and start a new book, no? I mean.. according to you pretty much the whole of the OT is lies.. Jesus refers to Jehovah as his father.. so he is implying that the OT is true.. otherwise the guy in the sky that the OT talks about what not have been Jesus' Dad.. it would have been one of the thousands of other Gods that have come and gone throughout history.

Agreed. However there are some who do their study properly and actually make sense of it. If you research into it properly, it does work out and become a great book of spiritual knowledge.

I wouldn't exactly call it knowledge. I mean.. I agree with most of Jesus' teachings but if you need a book to gain some morals isn't that a bit

Read it for what it is - a story book - then sure.

Again I agree. But in this example this is you, you're convinced it's nonsense... and don't seem to have any interest in accepting the validity behind it.

Nope, sorry.. It's still you doing it. And there is no validity behind it.. Are you prepared to accept the validity of the Quran? (Remember.. if you do your God will no be haaapppy ) If not, why? They are both books written thousands of years ago about very similar things and no evidence to back up their claims.

Erm, not seen it in this thread. If it's happened please show me.

Wasn't aimed at you personally.

Problem is, God gave us a choice to ignore him... so if he's provable by physical evidence, the whole thing falls on itself, doesn't it. What's my evidence? Love of life, really. I guess I see it all around me... My friends, my family, those I love and the precious moments I've experienced with them... The love I experience in visiting amazing places. The beauty all around us. This of course is not empirical proof. It cannot be... you have to give everyone else the choice to ignore God, remember?

But he used to try SOO hard to get people to stop ignoring him.. where is he now? How could a loving God simply leave us with a really old (hard to read) book that is full of mistakes and contradictions and expect people to believe in it?

And none of those things you mentioned is evidence for a God.. they really.. really aren't.

I mean sure.. give us the choice to ignore him cool.. but there is nothing to ignore.. He's sitting there silently in a world impossible for us to detect not saying a word.. Raas.. why are you ignoring my God? He's been sitting in an immaterial world not saying a thing your whole life and you have the cheek to ignore him! I bet you don't even think he's real!! (btw my God is not your God)

"But God I never even knew the bible existed I grew up in the slums of India at the age of 6.. I couldn't even read"
"Nope. Don't wanna hear your excuses.. now burn in hell"

Well, if you read a little more in the gospels... then you'll see Jesus usually talks in parables and uses hyperboles.

Yep.. and he does this why?

“And the disciples came, and said unto Him, Why do you speak unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto YOU to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but unto them it is NOT given.” Matt 13:10-11

To confuse people so they don't understand his teachings.. So they can burn in hell.

Oh ye loving lord.


Why do you not believe in Allah? Or Vishnu? Or Rah?

 

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The vision I had was excruciating. I've used a lot of hallucinogenics and dissociatives and had experienced other planes or realms.. but this was terrifying. I don't know if there is a firey pit or if its a metaphor... there are semantic debates inevitably around the concept of hell. The place I found my self was like the dryest, scorched desert.. but in my neighbourhood. Its like the water on the earth had evaporated and God 'felt' far away Fear seemed to permeate the atmosphere like oxygen. Bloody aweful .. I got back and I was so grateful that I have the promises of God that that or anything like it wont be my final destination.

Of course its a subjective experience. I may have interpreted it incorrectly and it doesn't serve as evidence of a hell realm. It probably seems far fetched to some of you..even so I just pray none of you ever experience a place like that. I also pray that God will enable me to be clear in the way I communicate this subject.. I'm going to trust God for such a miracle.

Hah yeah, 'far-fetched' is an understatement. There are so many logical explanations for something like that to happen. Rebound experience from using lots of hallucinogenics and dissociatives. Or rebound experience from opiate nods. Or being tired and drifting off. All rather more likely than having a vision of hell.
Hell is in your head. You proved that yourself by saying that what scared you was that God felt far away. You had a momentary feeling that you were alone on this earth - which is, may I add, what lots of us live with perfectly fine every day - and that triggered your 'vision'.
Just answer me this: how do the concepts of heaven and hell make any kind of sense? And please don't say that you don't need sense when you have faith or something

And raas, you were on shrooms so you'll have to excuse me if I don't take your 'vision' to be an indicator of hell.